tomo-moto

In the not too distant future, I’m proposing to start up a company that will be producing after-market accessories/kits for Indian production bikes. It is high time that someone comes and gives India something that isn’t a regurgitation of the same old thing.

Before going ahead with this venture, I’m posting on this and other forums as a method of feeling out the current Indian motorcycle market, especially given the current economic climate.

Are you familiar with a concept bike shown a few years ago by TVS, called the Isotope 200? I select this bike as hopefully you are familiar with it, and it is somewhat similar in character to a modification kit that I’m looking to develop. (Of course it will not be the same as this as TVS obviously own the design rights).

This supermoto style of bike, though unavailable as yet in India (I’m aware that KTM will likely enter the market soon) is in my opinion far more appropriate for India’s roads than say an R1 or Hayabusa, and I’ll tell you why:
When I see a superbike in India, I see a tiger in a cage. Superbikes are incredible machines to ride when on smooth, flowing tarmac, but sadly right here right now, they are just stifled by India’s potholed, mammal strewn roads. There will of course always be a market for people who need a superbike to complete their image, but I want to really focus on those of us who deep down just love the thrill of riding, no matter what it is. (I’m not suggesting that the majority of superbike owners own one to simply enhance their image here, but in terms of "bang for your buck" a superbike provides poor ecomony when in India). A supermoto however is specifically designed for riding on uneven surfaces, and is easy to handle even when the wheels are not in line. The buzz comes from the skill required to ride a bike that’s continually out of shape - this is not something that’s recommended or in fact easy to accomplish on a superbike. Also, dropping a supermoto on the move doesn’t tend to result in a pile of expensive broken fairings!

Over the last decade, I’ve ridden many different motorcycles in many parts of the world, on-road/track, and off-road. The thing that has become clear to me is this - The real thrill of riding any bike comes by pushing both the limits of the machine, and also your skills as the rider. Riding a motorcycle at a fraction of its capability is essentially mundane, and fulfils a different "personal need" to that "need for thrills". (By personal need I mean perhaps the owner has "the desire to own and ride the pinnacle of modern engineering" (a perfectly valid reason), or "the desire to be seen as sexy/wealthy/successful" (another valid reason))

Although in India the road network is poorly maintained, you can pretty much use every ounce of performance in a domestically produced bike. What I think is lacking in the current line up of manufacturers (aside from promoting rider education and skills), is that they are afraid of pushing the boundaries of styling and also introduce new categories of bikes. (According to the bike makers, all the bikes that look and perform pretty much the same to me, apparently fall into a number of different categories… Not sure I can see that much differentiation really!) Yes, the Yamaha R15 is a very well executed version of it’s international siblings, but it’s really a sheep in wolf’s clothing trying to pretend it’s something it’s not. I mean really push the boundaries, and create something that is internationally recognised as being something new in India. You may or may not be aware, but the Isotope was voted "best concept of 2006" by not only Top Gear magazine, but the world’s motorcycle designers in the Motorcycle Designers’ Association annual vote! What did TVS do with it…? My point precisely.

I am a huge advocate for safe riding, so whilst I say I love to ride bikes to their/my limits, I’ll only ever ride at 80% on the road, keeping the remaining 20% for when I’m in a controlled environment. I know there are only a few race tracks in India, and they’re all down south, but this is where the numerous go-kart tracks that are dotted around India come in. These are perfect places to ride relatively low powered motorcycles, at relatively slow speeds, but to do it successfully relies on huge amounts of rider skill, over huge bhp figures. The result of getting it right is intensely rewarding (and will carry over to make you a better road rider). Coincidentally enough… supermoto races have been happening at go kart tracks internationally for years!

Have a look here for a video of the fun you could be having.

So…what do you say? Interested in supermoto? Want to transform your bike’s looks and attitude?

Let me know your thoughts.

Sunny

Topic Approved

Finally we are meet some who wants to do something. Assuming you walk the talk, I will be willing to buy one of those please.

I also assume you have the resources and connections to get things done in this painfully corrupt and bureaucratic country.

One initial question: Which engine would you use? Are you planning to source it from a manufacturer and put it in a chassis + components of your own? How do plan to make sure the bike is affordable if not exactly in a budget. With the likes of established bikes like the KTM coming in (probably around 5-6k), in how much can you produce and sell these bikes? Wont there be homogolation issues, or you are planning to make after market kits. because if you do make after market to transform existing bikes, then I see you will have a lot of work there to make sure it runs and behaves as it looks 9chassis mods, suspension mods, engine etc).

There are some scattered questions which came to my mind immediately hence putting them down.

ken cool

If you are giving me what is on THAT video and a track to do it, I am buying!

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jayprashanth

Tomo-Moto, if you really go forward with this idea of yours and start selling super moto motorcycles/kits, that will be something immensely beneficial to the die hard bikers out here and elsewhere in our country. But, please remember that you need to cover the entire gamut of Indian "performance" and "touring" motorcycles for this. So, IMHO, you could start off with different kits to fit different motorcycles rather than building a super moto ground up. This, primarily because, India hasn't still warmed up completely to the idea of motorcycling as leisure. Once, you capture a niche market and with it a few eyeballs/positive reviews on the street, you will probably have a whole lot of bikers lining up for your kits. Once this idea clicks, you can get into manufacturing your own super-moto motorcycles. Meanwhile, about your go-kart track idea, this is precisely what I have talked about right here, on this very forum just last week. We need to gang up and think on these lines.

Check this out, Race on Sunday, dream on every day.

We need professionals to make this happen and you just may happen to be the one up for it. Cheers

tomo-moto

Jayprasanth - I'm not sure what you mean by the above statement. Please can you clarify. You are absolutely correct by the way in your understanding of my business development plan. I will not be launching any ground up motorcycles to India for several years. To do so will require huge investment, which is really only available after the brand is established.

To establish this brand I propose several kits that transform a stock Karizma, Pulsar, RTR (do you have any suggestions of other base models, and please let me know WHY to consider this model?) into a supermoto style motorcycle. You need not worry about the performance of the final product - I'm putting together a small team of some of the motorcycle industry's freshest talent to deliver these products.
I envisage having a few levels of the kit available, but don’t intend any of them to be cheap. This is going to be a premium branded product (perhaps hard for you to believe exactly, until you see the finished article, but let’s suppose for the moment that I can achieve this) released in limited numbers. Although components would likely be available individually to order, a hypothetical kit would include:

Level 1, the basic package –
Modified OEM chassis (exchange us your straight chassis)
Bodywork kit, inc. lights
Footpeg kit
Handlebars with bark busters
Exhaust system
Wheels and tyres

Level 2, the ultra package–
All of the above, plus
Uprated suspension package (new forks, yokes, rear shock and swingarm)
Engine tuning kit

Obviously all involved with this venture are seriously passionate about motorcycles, but we also need to get paid to expand the business! Can you estimate a figure at which you would purchase an exclusive kit that transformed the bike's behaviour and styling? (Just ballpark figure here, as I've not mentioned specifics about the parts. Suspension parts for example... ie could be Ohlins, or could be KSS.)

hitanshu

You know - I am confused. Completely.

Because the biker in me, wants to jump for joy, and say that I'll be game for something like this.

But yet, the realist in me realizes that unless the engine performance is significantly bumped up (in our anaemic machines) - I wouldn't be interested in spending a decent bundle of cash.

And finally, for it to have any such impact, it has to be considerably costly (read almost the cost of a new bike). Further, with bikers in India being value conscious as they are - I fear you may have exceedingly less market to justify the overheads your design/fabrication teams may have. Add in working capitalm inventory etc, and you have a low shot of viability.

That said, my very best wishes for the venture!

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abhijeet080808

It was about time that someone finally took the initiative! My main concern about these kits is that they should be correctly priced - spending about 5-10k should show a noticeable difference in the character of the bike. These kits should be designed in such a way that the parts can be bolted on one by one as and when needed. Each such part should be effective as a standalone part. Consider a situation where a customer needs say a projector light and if it can only be bolted on to a custom fairing will mean that the only purpose of that fairing will be to mount the light. These type of dependencies will keep people away. Another example - a custom swingarm should also be able accept the stock suspension. Maybe the improvement with the stock suspension will not be that much but still the improvement should be noticeable. And those who want further improvement can go for the uprated suspension at a further cost at a later time. If this system is followed, there will be a demand in the market. People basically want plug n play parts.

And on Indian bikes the main problem is with the puny engines. That also needs to be looked into. Maybe import a SINGLE model higher power engine that will be compatible with the bikes you intend to support and is RELIABLE. Or maybe offer a displacement upgrade using custom cylinder/piston kit, clutch kit etc. IMO keep the focus away from performance mods like air filter etc. They are just not worth the money - at the end of the day a puny 150cc engine will still be a 150cc engine only.

All the very best for your venture!

46wannabe

Great stuff there Tomo! Again I see a cry for the Cubic Capacity race. Buddy get ready for a bombardment of opinions that span extremes, because once this thread gets the attention of the other members you will recieve all the market demands you are looking for. Or atleast 70% of it. This ofcourse keeping in mind that your clients will be only enthusiasts and not the point A to point B commuters.

Coming back to the engine capacity.I feel the 150s are the way to go. They are the base level motors that are easy to guage and not intimidatingly powerful. But yes they would need tweaks. Gradually you could start kits for the bigger motors. I suppose the import route for engines would be a strict no-no at this point of time.

Well, here's wishing you all the best for your business venture. May the good Lord bless you with the best of staff and the best of wisdom.


Cheers
-Jo Boi

P.S.: Any vacancies for an enthusiast without an Engineering degree?:P

__________________
10 Commandments:
1)Thank thy God for being alive.
2)Thou shalt respect one's own life and the live's of other road users.
3)Thou shalt respect one's own bike.
4)Love thy bike as thy self.
5)Always wear safety gear.
6)Alcohol is a strict NO!
7)Thou may lust after thy neighbour's bike specially if its of the R1 kind!
8)Thou shalt ride with 'ultra-most' care and caution when on Indian roads.
9)Thou shalt never leave the engine running at long traffic halts.
10)Thou shalt follow all of the above.

jayprashanth

Tomo-Moto,

"You need to cover the entire gamut of Indian "performance" and "touring" motorcycles" By this, I meant that you need to make kits that cover motorcycles like the Zma, R15, P200 & P220, RTR and even a Royal Enfield on the other end. At present, these are the touring and performance motorcycles in the Indian motorcycle market.

Ok, now many would cry hoarse when I say Royal Enfield in the same vein as the Zmas and P220s. But, the fact remains that the bullets have plenty or torque and decent power to qualify for your kit. Moreover, on a wider perspective, the UCE500 will hit Indian shores in due course. Once that happens, you will, in all probability have a 500CC "reliable" and "reasonably powerful" single at your disposal. So, IMHO, this is a good enough reason for you to look at the REs.

Coming to your pricing, I think, a figure that is somewhere around 20-25 thousand would be a fair price for your "basic package". I am quoting this figure assuming that high quality materials and finish comparable or exceeding the standards of Indian motorcycle manufacturers. Please note that I am not expecting Ohlins or KSS at this price point. Parts with a similar level of quality with a cheaper price would do, even if the brand is not well known.

Like Abhijeet080808 said, if you make parts with bolt-on capability, you would have a wider range of buyers. So, you could keep that in mind too. Supermotos aren't about power. IMHO, 200-250 cc engines are fair enough for starters. Depending on initial response, you can graduate to higher capacity engines like the UCE500 EFI could be a good option if you could make a low volume motorcycle manufacturer like RE to get you supplying these engines. That would solve importing expensive engines and would also keep costs low. Power could easily be bumped up to the 35-40Bhp mark. That done, you have a genuine Indian supermoto that will be on every enthusiast's wishlist.

PS: I have a plan to buy the UCE500 and make it a supermoto. So, you need to excuse my leaning towards this particular engine. Having said that, I strongly believe that the UCE500 has a lot of potential. Think about it.

46wannabe

why has this topic gone off the air? Where's everyone and their grey cells?
Tomo-moto, where have you disappeared? Guess we're all busy keeping our jobs in these times of recession.

__________________
10 Commandments:
1)Thank thy God for being alive.
2)Thou shalt respect one's own life and the live's of other road users.
3)Thou shalt respect one's own bike.
4)Love thy bike as thy self.
5)Always wear safety gear.
6)Alcohol is a strict NO!
7)Thou may lust after thy neighbour's bike specially if its of the R1 kind!
8)Thou shalt ride with 'ultra-most' care and caution when on Indian roads.
9)Thou shalt never leave the engine running at long traffic halts.
10)Thou shalt follow all of the above.