Query Approved.

Raccoon, I am reminded of the fact that you use Castrol CRB - an oil meant for diesel engines and not designed for bikes, which mostly use a wet clutch (larger vehicles typically have a dry clutch). That may be the culprit that has resulted in premature wear.

If your clutch plates do need replacement, they will make it fairly obvious, there won't be an eagerness after a gear change, there will be slippage etc. I'm not too sure they are the cause of sluggish performance.

I would check the following:

1. Carb & jets - clean and check
2. Spark Plug: Replace if very old
3. Air Filter element: Replace if old.
4. Silencer & Muffler: Decarb
5. Reed valve: Check & clean

It is worth taking the head & bore off, to decarb/clean the ports and head, but more importantly, to check for clearances and if the rings/bore have worn out. 20,000 km on a Shogun is high - I suspect the rings would need replacement at the least or perhaps a rebore is on the cards. Check this sooner rather than later, running the engine on a bore with excessive clearances will cause an oval-like wear of the bore and could result in your going from standard to second oversize directly.

If you're good with wrenching, this something you cold do at home over a weekend, two weekends if a rebore is involved. This way, your beauty and its parts is safe at home while the rings are changed or a rebore is done. The trickiest part of the procedure is getting the lock pins off the pistin without damaging it and/or dropping the pins into the crankcase (easily remedied though - block it off with cotton waste).

Get a knowledgable friend to help you - worst case sceanrio - you may need to call a mech over for installation.

PS: If you get the bore off, check for play in the crankshaft.

Thanks Nirvaan!

I really don't think CRB might be the problem. I don't know if you know that CRB is one of the recommended oils in the Shogun's manual. Yes, when it was recommended, it was an oil graded for petrol engines too.... and the formulation has changed more than once, I'm sure. Still, there is a school of thought that says diesel oils perform even better than those rated specifically for petrols... even in gearboxes! Also, diesel oils are believed not to have friction modifiers like "Molybdenum disulfide" which cause clutch slippage. Given this, I really doubt CRB is to blame... but who knows! Anyway, which oil do you suggest?

The bike does pick up after gear change... the problem is the pick-up is not what can be expected from a Shogun!

Might it be that there is just a slight clutch slippage? But how can i tell for sure its the clutch? Don't want to even open to crankcase unless I can be sure.

1. Carb & jets - clean and check - supposed to have been cleaned at last service just 1.5 months ago at TVS ASC.

2. Spark Plug: Replace if very old - Replaced it yesterday with NGK platinum. Very slight change observed. Too early to comment...

3. Air Filter element: Replace if old. - Replaced last year with original TVS element.

4. Silencer & Muffler: Decarb - The TVS supervisor said definitely no decarb required. I had asked him to open the head and exhaust pipe (to check exhaust port). I was not present when he did it however.

5. Reed valve: Check & clean - Never done this. What might be the symptoms of a dirty reed valve, etc?


To check the clearane, I think it will be best to do a compression test, right?

Is 20,000 km really too hight for the Shogun?!?! The bike hasn't even been ridden hard.

What exactly is 'wrenching'? But I can't do all this at home... first thing is I don't have a garage or something where I can keep the bike in diassembled condition. Second is, I don't have all the tools that will be required. Third is would not like to try something this critical for the 1st time on my bike.

I guess I'll try to take the bike to TVS and/or Castrol Bike zone or something and see what they say.

Can you/anybody else advice me about the clutch plates pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee??! I mean, should I just try to get TVS plates? Or any other options, etc?

We've come a long way from the old days - lots of 20W40 (or near) oil options now available specially formulated for motorcycles. Sure, these are aimed mostly at four strokers, but it won't harm the engine like I think CRB would. I'd recommend Yamalube or a Castrol option such as Activ 4t (not totally sure of the grade though) .

Yes, a compression test is an easy way to check the condition of the bore/pistons, to begin with. I tend to prefer the regular way of taking it all off though . Actually seeing the parts and checking them for wear is always best.

As for tools, you would spend no more than Rs. 500 for all the tools needed to get the bore removed.

If you get around to it, buy:

1. A flat ring spanner for the bore nuts
2. A Taparia ratchet & suitable bits for the head and exhaust (probably #12 & 13).
3. No. 10 ring spanner for getting at the reeds. (Not sure how to check them for efficacy - my mech used to blow in them like you would a conch - and if they sounded a tune, he proclaimed them good)
4. The tool (not sure what its called) to remove the piston pin.

You should try wrenching sometime, it is fun!

If you do get the bore removed, buy a couple of suitable files and smoothen all the ports, taking care to ensure you don't remove metal to change the actual shape of the port.

I'm no expert here, just thought I'd throw my thoughts into the mix.

Thanks dude!

But I guess I should get a good mech. do it in front of me 1st time. I don't have a proper place to do it... and doing all that at ground level is a brack breaking and dirty job. And If I need a tool or something else in the process, I cant leave it all open and run off to buy something. Just too many issues involved...

But 1st I need to figure out if its the clutch to begin with... and then which plates to buy and from where, etc.

I'm not terrribly sure how a 4 stroke engine oil will perform in a 2 stroke gearbox. But I guess it should be ok. Maybe I should try Gulf Pride 20W40? The 10W30 works great in my CBZ-x.

Btw, I'v even heard of some folks using CRB in 4 stroke engines! But yet to get a confirmed long term report. Have you observed anyone doing this?

Regarding clutch plates, you will definitely want the complete fibre suzuki clutch pates that cost 1470 for 5 pieces. Those are NOT available now. You will get a Rs 180 clutch plate from TVS which will serve the purpose (if you are not into drag racing) BUT won't last long like the fibre plates. Throw them away every 5000 kms.

It is a general tendency of the mechanics to hold the clutchplates primary culprit for a diminished pickup however there may be a lot of factors too.

Check your compression. Turn off the ignition and try to kick start the bike gently, do you get any obstruction in the kicks? If no then you have a poor compression and you need to check your block-piston setup.

The suzuki clutchplates can swear by 1 lac Kms guaranteed if you do not abuse the bike. So 20000 kms is sort of nothing for it (obviously taking the other factors like proper oil change etc. into consideration)

I do not have enough knowledge on oil related stuffs and this diesel oil in 2S bikes is new for me. I strictly use Castrol GTX for the gear box oil, last week I however used Valvolin Champ 4T and quite tensed if I did a right thing or not. Very soon I will drain it off and pour GTX.

No chance of getting Suzuki clutch plates anywhere???

And TVS clutch plates last only 5,000 km???

Gawd... thats way too short! The last thing I want to do is to invest time opening the crankcase every 5,000 km! Not to mention the angst of dealing with shabby mechanics!



Hmm... I think there is "obstruction". But I will double check this tommorrow. Its definitely not without some obstruction... that much I can say for sure. Else would have noticed it for sure.

I think you are right. I doubt if anything is wrong with the clutch. The bike's speed does not seem to be lagging behind the RPM or something. I even started off from a gradient today. But they bike dosent seem to have the Shogun's oomph either. Maybe there is slight clutch slippage?

Thats a very good life expectancy man. Something that should be in every trouble free machine.

Btw will my bike have the original Suzuki clutch plates inside?

This is really strange - I asked that mechanic about which oils he recommends and uses. Generally mechanics seem to have a very poor idea about oils... so I just wanted to probe. Even he recommended GTX! I asked him, isn't that a car oil (I wasn't sure)?! He gave me a quizzical look... and said no. He further said Petronas is one of the best... and BPCL one of the worst.

I came back and checked the Castrol site. Seems GTX is a car oil! Please check the Castrol site. Dude, if this is a car oil, this is the last thing you should be using! Whats more its 20W50 and not 20W40, which is recommended. Also note that it is SL rated. That means it will have very low amounts of Zn and S, etc. And lots of clutch destroying moly! Believe me, you are MUCH better off with that Valvoline in your precious gearbox!

Have you ever tried a fully synthetic oil?

As for my Shogun, I'v always used Castrol CRB, as it is one of the originally recommended oils. Once due to some reasons the oil wasn't changed for about three years. But then the bike was very sparingly used... like mebbe once in a week for 2 - 3 km or maybe once a month for a bit longer ride. Dunno what damage this might have done to the bike. I kick myself when I think about this. But as far as I can observe externally, there has been no change.

If the bike has been sparingly used (like say barely 1,000 or 2,000 km in a year), then how often (in terms of time) should the oil be changed? The manual is silent on this one. Any ideas?

If you find the fibre plates let me know, I will take as many of those available. []


If you sparingly use the bike, replacement of the oil after every 3 to 4 months is recommended. I am trying to gain some knowledge about the oils that should be used, so far I was using a Castrol GTX - Castrol Super TT combination. There is another thread regarding the same and it seems Motul 800 2T is a good choice for the 2T oil however it is very costly.

Checked the Castrol site and got more confused, Power1 Jettix is shown on the site however it is not available in the outlets. I am thinking of bidding a goodbye to Castrol for my Shogun forever and for good.

Recommend a good fully synthetic oil. Petronas?

Responses inline, above.

This is a bit offtopic - but which spark plug do you/anybody else use in the Shogun? I'v been using the recommended NGK BP8HS. However this isn't available wherever I asked. They only have BP7HS which NGK recommends for Shogun, Samurai, etc. BP8HS is available as a TVS part, but they charge almost double for it. So I just bought a NGK Platinum (G Power, BPR7HGP) from the NGK dealer for Rs. 130. Issue is the BP7HS and BPR7HGP both are hotter spark plugs. I don't know why NGK is recommending these for the Shogun. I feel they may run too hot for the Shogun.

After installing the Platinum plug I observed a slight improvement in idling (bike feels smoother) and also slight improvement low end acceleration. But even that small difference might be because I'm comparing it with an old nickel NGK. Since its supposed to last longer, I hope its worth the extra bucks.

I am using the BPR7HGP and just done 100kms with it. Earlier I had a Mico Bosch. The NGK-TVS one is not available anymore!

Cool... so how did you find the NGK G Power plugh (BPR7HGP)?

I called up NGK today. I asked why they are recommending a hotter plug when TVS recommends a colder plug. He said Nickel NGK (BP8HS) is a non-resistor type plug. Non-resistor type plugs are not allowed as per govt. of India laws; hence they do not market the BP8HS. I told him that TVS is selling BP8HS... how come? He did not have an answer. I asked him some more tech. questions about the caps etc. He said he dosen't know so much... and he will get the person who can ans. to call me back. The call never came...

Now that makes me think... are our spark plug caps resistor or non-resistor type? If they are resistor type then using resistor type plugs can have adverse effects.

Whats more platinum plugs are supposed require less voltage. In simple words this means the spark will not be as fat and hot as in the normal OEM nickel plug. So it actually may not be good for the engine.... esp. when the ignition system is in normal condition.

I feel its best to use BP8HS as per the original recommendation. And the plug is available with my dealer... I just called them and asked.

If you have a resistor type plug you have to use a non resistor plug adapter. If the plug is non resistor then plug adapter will have the resistor.

So if you have no choice but to use a resistor type plug in a resistor type adapter then replace the resistor with a piece of copper or just swap the adapter with a non resistor type one.

Most modern multi map digital ignition systems do not work properly with a non resistor type plug due to electromagnetic interference it causes. It also creates electro magnetic interference in other house hold and office electronic equipments. Resistor in plug adapter is not as effective as having the resistor in the plug.

Using a resistor type plug in an older, designed for non resistor plug, ignition system will create a weaker spark.

^^^So any ideas how to make out if my plug cap is a resistor type or non-resistor type?

I had to recently change the original plug cap. Got it changed at the TVS ASC. I don't recall seeing it written anywhere if its a resistor type or non resistor type. Any ideas?

Since the recommended BP8HS is supposed to be a non-resistor type plug (as told orally by NGK rep) maybe the original cap was resistor type? But then what about the people who get non TVS plugs? Do they end up using resistor type plugs with resistor type caps??

But now since plugs are supposed to be resistor type, is TVS making non resistor type caps only?

Pretty confusing scenario...

its quite simple..there are no bikes that came with a digital /dynamic curve cdi's for 2 strokes..Hence its not advisable to use the R type plugs..NGK 8HS is good but rare..7HS does the job..Or simply use the MICO W5BC..I even use it on my drag RX..its a relatively colder plug than the 7HS..