Safe braking in emergency situation - xBhp.com : The Global Indian Biking Community

JonnyRider · 11-20-2010, 08:26 AM

Hi folks,
I really feel this is perennial problem for the not-so-proficient riders. I love riding and more than just for commuting. I appreciate the performance in a bike. So, sudden braking is sort of a regular part of my riding, sometimes to control the high-speed of the riding under rains or, sometimes to avoid hitting the bipeds/quadpeds (they are luxuriously crossing the road). Potholes are also included in the list to avoid. The problem is brake locks under such situation, bike shakes and I feel nervous. This led to few accidents and skidding on the road and getting injury on me & bike. Hail, the proficient riders...I need thou guidance.

Aryan · 11-20-2010, 10:35 AM

General Biking Discussion Approved.

jawad_emt · 11-20-2010, 11:16 AM

the braking trait of bikes differ in each type and make, what make is your bike?

as a general discussion, good braking depends on these things :-
condition of:-

tyre..
braking system..
type of road..

And the main thing is braking skill... this includes

prediction..
reaction time..
adequateness of brake applied..

you may see in which area you need improvement...

Rony · 11-20-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rony

Had a freak accident today

I was going to TCS Borivali to meet my friend on her birthday. I picked up my other friend from JVLR junction and then started riding on Western Express Highway towards Borivali. Things were smooth until we hit the Kandivali Flyover. I was on the first lane and at the top there was a rickshaw lying half over divider and half on the first lane. It seems it was a fresh accident hence no barricades were put in. I was following a white Scorpio at 40-50kmph which was in turn behind a small car (i think old zen). The small car noticed the rickshaw too late and applied sudden brakes. The Scorpio guy it seems had noticed that auto before the small car in front of him (thanks to higher seating position) hence he was slowing down (arnd 30kmph) and so was I who was blindly following him. But the scorpio guy did not anticipate that the small car will stop so suddenly hence even he applied the brakes suddenly at around 30kmph. I had too little time to react, I applied both the brakes (front first followed by rear) and kept my handle straight instead of turning it and avoiding scorpio as there was too little distance left between us and I did not want to come under oncoming vehicles to my left (on the right there was divider hence no use turning there). Within 2 seconds of scorpio applying brakes, I bumped into its rear with around 20kmph head on. The front tyre took all the impact force tearing my mud guard and slightly bending my handle towards front. Also the headlight got a scratch. My head bumped on the rear window of the scorpio but the helmet saved me

. The best part was the bike did not fall and I kept it straight even after the impact. My legs were touching the ground and my friend had firmly hold on to back handle so even he did not fly off. We both were standing straight with the bike in middle and thanking god that we did not fall off which would have further aggravated the situation. I just got small scratch on the leg which brushed on the leg rest with much force. Everything else was ok. I checked my disc brake, front tyre and rim, things looked fine. Only the mud guard had to be teared off to avoid it making contact with the tyre. I took the bike further to borivali TCS and checked again waiting for my friend to come. The handle had slightly moved in forward position which I think can be pulled back by loosening the screws and applying some force. I will take the bike to SVC tomorrow and get the new mud guard fixed with other check ups done.

The moral of the story is, some times accidents are totally unavoidable, what matters is LUCK and some skills to handle such situations. If I had turned the handle and applied brakes, mostly the bike would have skid and we both could have hit ground and gone under the scorpio or worse under the moving cars on the second lane which were passing by oblivious to our accident since it was confined to first lane only. Also my helmet saved the head from banging on the rear window directly.

So Ride Safe Guys

My bike is bajaj XCD 135cc and its got front Disc brake and rear Drum brake. I was always told by my friends who ride bikes from ages that in such emergency situations applying both the brakes (front followed immediately by rear) helps in keeping the steed straight and preventing it from skidding. I hope my experience helps you.

shelton_jh · 11-20-2010, 11:52 AM

Hope you've heard about 'Engine braking' where you lower down gears to reduce the speed of the bike. This has changed the way I ride totally. Even i had similar experiences in the begining before i learnt this, when i was using only the brakes.
Before learning the art of Engine braking:
1. Confidence was low
2. Bike wasn't in my control when I braked
3. I was relatively slow beacuse i had to be sure that i can stop in time
I first learnt this art in a RX - 135 which is quite easy since it's a 2 stroke and it's so good when you do it on a 2 stroke but you can also do it on a 4 stroke machine but it isn't as easy doing it on a 2 stroke.

* Funda: When you lower the gear the bike naturally reduces the speed and remember this time there is no locking of wheels since power is getting delivered and at the same time speed is reduced to a considerable amount. While doing this you need to apply brakes slightly to assist braking rather than applying it hard. I know I'm telling you to do two things at the same time and it sounds very tough but if you get it right nothing like it.

Do's:
* 'Blip' (another art to be perfected after you learn this) the throtlle when you downshift
* Lower one gear at a time i.e. downshift to the next lower gear only after you've attained a suitable speed, a speed which that particular gear can take.
* Try using both the brakes simultaneously

Dont's:
* Don't downshift 2 gears in one go which would result in the tail swaying and you losing control
* Remember this works well only when you do both braking at the same time, if you just lower gears it isn't going to help
* Dont ever give throtlle when you are downshifting you know what will happen if you do so

I've been benefited by this a lot, my riding style changed, I got more confidence, once i learnt Blipping I got much smoother, I have avoided many accidents due to this and of course my normal speed increased

The main advantage of this which I found is that it is maneuverable at the time of braking which makes you more confident.

P.s. I know it is tough on the engine and gear box, you need not do this everytime and once you get the knack you'll be more smoother on the engine when you know at what speeds you can do it and all.

AKSHAYNAYAR · 11-20-2010, 12:20 PM

Hey glad that you asked this question and started this thread. I was thinking of starting this myself nut the saw yours first.
Safety is a key concern today especially with the kind of rate at which two wheelers are increasing in India. With manufacturers pouring in more and more powerful bikes and cars in the market it has almost become a nightmare driving on national highways in some metros of the country.
ffice

ffice" />>>
Well coming to the point, following are some recollections from the ride safe training I attended.
The three brakes>>
Front brake, Rear brake and ENGINE
Engine has a tendency to slow down on account of frictional forces from within, if the throttle is closed at high speeds. So if you are cruising at high speeds and need to stop, the first thing to do should be closing the throttle ASAP. This will add to the braking effect you will create by applying the front and rear brakes. Generally we have a tendency to pull the clutch as well, while braking (from here on referred to as declutching). This is wrong. Close the throttle and don’t declutch. You need to declutch the bike only when you come to a halt so that the engine doesn’t stall. This can be learned with some practice.
Front and Rear Brakes methodology of application is a little debatable. Under conscious and controlled riding one should always apply both the brakes simultaneously so the biker doesn’t experience fishtail. Depending on the surface and posture of riding front brake provides 60-80 % of the braking force. This is the only thing that will help you out but if used incorrectly this can be the last thing. Progressively applying the front brake with your index and middle fingers will result in effective braking giving you a good grip on the handle bar at the same time. The rear brake should be used in sync to minimize stopping distance. Remember to keep your fingers on the clutch lever but don't apply them while braking and losing speed>>
Your sitting posture can really help you out. While braking shift your chest back a little, infact widen your chest. This way you will have a better grip on handlebar and will be in better control of the bike. In addition, grip the fuel tank with your knees. This way you can tackle the retardation force even under a hard braking scenario. Watch some motogp videos and see how Rossi brakes around corners, you will get a fair hint of what I am trying to say (but don’t try to imitate him, that fellow is GOD)>>
Well here comes the tricky part. Emergency braking. Emergencies often lead to panic braking, where the rider almost always slams the brakes really hard resulting in wheel lock and accident. The only remedy is practice progressive braking. Slam the brakes to the point of no wheel lock. This will come only by practice. Untill and unless you make conscious effort to learn this, and register it in your daily routine you will not be able to handle emergencies.>>
But like I said this is debatable point. Here are some excerpts. The views expressed underneath are entirely theirs and not mine !!>>
“In an emergency do we concentrate on using staged braking on both front and back brakes?>>
This is a controversial subject. Some experienced riders reckon that, even in an emergency when research has shown that panic tends to decrease your riding skills, they can apply the back brake perfectly with no loss of braking on the front. >>
>>
Well, research has shown that the average rider can only properly concentrate on the use of one brake in an emergency so, unless you think you're road motorcycling's equivalent of a top motorcycle racer, we would suggest that you concentrate on getting the best out of one brake. >>
>>
Of the front and rear brake on a motorcycle, the one to concentrate on in an emergency is the front brake because if you get that one wrong, lock it up and don't correct that problem then you're going to crash.>>
>>
According to the American Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you try to get the best out of both brakes in an emergency, you will get the best out of neither. The MSF says you can't concentrate FULLY on both brakes at one time. You know your mother's old nag, "You can't concentrate on two things at one time"!>>
>>
So, to get the best braking, you have to concentrate using either the front or the back brake and, since the front brake gives up to 80% of your braking power and incorrect application is likely to make you fall off, it makes sense to concentrate on the front brake.>>
>>
The American Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches their instructors that "in an emergency braking situation you should apply the back brake hard and let the back wheel slide if it wants to. This way you can concentrate on what is happening up front; there's enough to think about in the use of the front brake.">>
>>
>>
You can find a lot more info on the net. Or perhaps you could also attend some training programme. There are different kinds of modules taught in training programmes, like narrow plank riding, slalom runs, bending and braking around corners, straight line braking, the four stage braking and lot more.>>
>>
Anyways hope this info was useful. Cheers!! >>
Ride Safe and Spread the Awareness.>>

JonnyRider · 11-20-2010, 01:16 PM

Thanks guys for your time & response...

to jawad_emt: sorry dude, i forgot to mention the bike...I have a P220 FI (3+years, 40K kms)

to Rony: I wish you a safe ride in future. Thank god, you & pillion were saved.

to shelton_jh: I'm practising gear shifts to reduce speed for about 5-6 months (since my last accident) ...but I guess, u r right...i am doing more than one down-shifts in case of emergencies...so still there's something to be corrected...tell me what's the "blip"

to AKSHAYNAYAR: u r The Man. Tht's a good post with info. Dude, I stay in Chennai. Do you know any place here to attend some training programme?

madhav krishna · 11-20-2010, 01:31 PM

For your front brake lock problem.

Saferide ABS

sheelpriye · 11-20-2010, 01:37 PM

This Braking thread shall be of immense help to you.

Go through each posts & keep time in hand while going through it.

AKSHAYNAYAR · 11-20-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyRider

to AKSHAYNAYAR: u r The Man. Tht's a good post with info. Dude, I stay in Chennai. Do you know any place here to attend some training programme?

thanks man !!
well i stay in gurgaon and know about this place only. over here HH has riding school which is pretty good. the instructor is from singapore and they have various kinds of terrain practice as well.

other than that HH and HMSI individually organise ride safe programmes for customers (not necessarily theirs). you can get in touch with a regional HHML or HMSI office and ask about the tentative schedule. it happens in some part of the year and it is part of their CSR (corporate Social Responsibility)
now you might not gain much by these local level promotional programmes. but the idea is that you will get a knack of things and the rest is for you to practice. do watch some videos on youtube and read some stuff like the article on braking mentioned by sheelpriye

Ride Safe and Spread the Awareness

11-20-2010, 08:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
JonnyRider Rider smokes wind Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Chennai Posts: 207	Safe braking in emergency situation Hi folks, I really feel this is perennial problem for the not-so-proficient riders. I love riding and more than just for commuting. I appreciate the performance in a bike. So, sudden braking is sort of a regular part of my riding, sometimes to control the high-speed of the riding under rains or, sometimes to avoid hitting the bipeds/quadpeds (they are luxuriously crossing the road). Potholes are also included in the list to avoid. The problem is brake locks under such situation, bike shakes and I feel nervous. This led to few accidents and skidding on the road and getting injury on me & bike. Hail, the proficient riders...I need thou guidance. __________________ Motorsport is fun. Safety is a mandate. Be in shape & ride long

11-20-2010, 10:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
Aryan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Delhi/ Shillong Posts: 18,274	General Biking Discussion Approved. __________________ ...in search of that perfect world - My Travel Blog :)

11-20-2010, 11:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
jawad_emt Cool Demon Join Date: May 2010 Location: riyadh KSA Posts: 70	the braking trait of bikes differ in each type and make, what make is your bike? as a general discussion, good braking depends on these things :- condition of:- tyre.. braking system.. type of road.. And the main thing is braking skill... this includes prediction.. reaction time.. adequateness of brake applied.. you may see in which area you need improvement... __________________ We wouldn't need a forum if we all had same opinions, same thoughts, and same bikes..... Enjoy the difference.

11-20-2010, 12:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
AKSHAYNAYAR Rossi is GOD Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 22	Ride safe Hey glad that you asked this question and started this thread. I was thinking of starting this myself nut the saw yours first. Safety is a key concern today especially with the kind of rate at which two wheelers are increasing in India. With manufacturers pouring in more and more powerful bikes and cars in the market it has almost become a nightmare driving on national highways in some metros of the country. fficeffice" />>> Well coming to the point, following are some recollections from the ride safe training I attended. The three brakes>> Front brake, Rear brake and ENGINE Engine has a tendency to slow down on account of frictional forces from within, if the throttle is closed at high speeds. So if you are cruising at high speeds and need to stop, the first thing to do should be closing the throttle ASAP. This will add to the braking effect you will create by applying the front and rear brakes. Generally we have a tendency to pull the clutch as well, while braking (from here on referred to as declutching). This is wrong. Close the throttle and don’t declutch. You need to declutch the bike only when you come to a halt so that the engine doesn’t stall. This can be learned with some practice. Front and Rear Brakes methodology of application is a little debatable. Under conscious and controlled riding one should always apply both the brakes simultaneously so the biker doesn’t experience fishtail. Depending on the surface and posture of riding front brake provides 60-80 % of the braking force. This is the only thing that will help you out but if used incorrectly this can be the last thing. Progressively applying the front brake with your index and middle fingers will result in effective braking giving you a good grip on the handle bar at the same time. The rear brake should be used in sync to minimize stopping distance. Remember to keep your fingers on the clutch lever but don't apply them while braking and losing speed>> Your sitting posture can really help you out. While braking shift your chest back a little, infact widen your chest. This way you will have a better grip on handlebar and will be in better control of the bike. In addition, grip the fuel tank with your knees. This way you can tackle the retardation force even under a hard braking scenario. Watch some motogp videos and see how Rossi brakes around corners, you will get a fair hint of what I am trying to say (but don’t try to imitate him, that fellow is GOD)>> Well here comes the tricky part. Emergency braking. Emergencies often lead to panic braking, where the rider almost always slams the brakes really hard resulting in wheel lock and accident. The only remedy is practice progressive braking. Slam the brakes to the point of no wheel lock. This will come only by practice. Untill and unless you make conscious effort to learn this, and register it in your daily routine you will not be able to handle emergencies.>> But like I said this is debatable point. Here are some excerpts. The views expressed underneath are entirely theirs and not mine !!>> “In an emergency do we concentrate on using staged braking on both front and back brakes?>> This is a controversial subject. Some experienced riders reckon that, even in an emergency when research has shown that panic tends to decrease your riding skills, they can apply the back brake perfectly with no loss of braking on the front. >> >> Well, research has shown that the average rider can only properly concentrate on the use of one brake in an emergency so, unless you think you're road motorcycling's equivalent of a top motorcycle racer, we would suggest that you concentrate on getting the best out of one brake. >> >> Of the front and rear brake on a motorcycle, the one to concentrate on in an emergency is the front brake because if you get that one wrong, lock it up and don't correct that problem then you're going to crash.>> >> According to the American Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you try to get the best out of both brakes in an emergency, you will get the best out of neither. The MSF says you can't concentrate FULLY on both brakes at one time. You know your mother's old nag, "You can't concentrate on two things at one time"!>> >> So, to get the best braking, you have to concentrate using either the front or the back brake and, since the front brake gives up to 80% of your braking power and incorrect application is likely to make you fall off, it makes sense to concentrate on the front brake.>> >> The American Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches their instructors that "in an emergency braking situation you should apply the back brake hard and let the back wheel slide if it wants to. This way you can concentrate on what is happening up front; there's enough to think about in the use of the front brake.">> >> >> You can find a lot more info on the net. Or perhaps you could also attend some training programme. There are different kinds of modules taught in training programmes, like narrow plank riding, slalom runs, bending and braking around corners, straight line braking, the four stage braking and lot more.>> >> Anyways hope this info was useful. Cheers!! >> Ride Safe and Spread the Awareness.>>

11-20-2010, 01:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
JonnyRider Rider smokes wind Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Chennai Posts: 207	Safe braking in emergency situation Thanks guys for your time & response... to jawad_emt: sorry dude, i forgot to mention the bike...I have a P220 FI (3+years, 40K kms) to Rony: I wish you a safe ride in future. Thank god, you & pillion were saved. to shelton_jh: I'm practising gear shifts to reduce speed for about 5-6 months (since my last accident) ...but I guess, u r right...i am doing more than one down-shifts in case of emergencies...so still there's something to be corrected...tell me what's the "blip" to AKSHAYNAYAR: u r The Man. Tht's a good post with info. Dude, I stay in Chennai. Do you know any place here to attend some training programme? __________________ Motorsport is fun. Safety is a mandate. Be in shape & ride long

11-20-2010, 11:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
shelton_jh Seasoned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 418	Hope you've heard about 'Engine braking' where you lower down gears to reduce the speed of the bike. This has changed the way I ride totally. Even i had similar experiences in the begining before i learnt this, when i was using only the brakes. Before learning the art of Engine braking: 1. Confidence was low 2. Bike wasn't in my control when I braked 3. I was relatively slow beacuse i had to be sure that i can stop in time I first learnt this art in a RX - 135 which is quite easy since it's a 2 stroke and it's so good when you do it on a 2 stroke but you can also do it on a 4 stroke machine but it isn't as easy doing it on a 2 stroke. * Funda: When you lower the gear the bike naturally reduces the speed and remember this time there is no locking of wheels since power is getting delivered and at the same time speed is reduced to a considerable amount. While doing this you need to apply brakes slightly to assist braking rather than applying it hard. I know I'm telling you to do two things at the same time and it sounds very tough but if you get it right nothing like it. Do's: * 'Blip' (another art to be perfected after you learn this) the throtlle when you downshift * Lower one gear at a time i.e. downshift to the next lower gear only after you've attained a suitable speed, a speed which that particular gear can take. * Try using both the brakes simultaneously Dont's: * Don't downshift 2 gears in one go which would result in the tail swaying and you losing control * Remember this works well only when you do both braking at the same time, if you just lower gears it isn't going to help * Dont ever give throtlle when you are downshifting you know what will happen if you do so I've been benefited by this a lot, my riding style changed, I got more confidence, once i learnt Blipping I got much smoother, I have avoided many accidents due to this and of course my normal speed increased The main advantage of this which I found is that it is maneuverable at the time of braking which makes you more confident. P.s. I know it is tough on the engine and gear box, you need not do this everytime and once you get the knack you'll be more smoother on the engine when you know at what speeds you can do it and all.

11-20-2010, 01:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
madhav krishna BANNED Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bangalore, hyderabad Posts: 1,442	For your front brake lock problem. Saferide ABS __________________ my facebook account http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.p...00000743704153 NOT BEEN THERE NOT DONE THAT

11-20-2010, 01:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
sheelpriye L8 Braker Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,945	This Braking thread shall be of immense help to you. Go through each posts & keep time in hand while going through it.

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