Thread: "The Big Bore" - A Story about an R15 getting tuned.

Note: This is a MUST read thread for all XBHPians who plan to modify their R15s and I have mentioned social contacts here, just to keep thread straight and frank, all this applies only to Yamaha YZF R15.


XBHP - The place where it all started. I got to know about the R15 here, read reviews and comments here, built the desire and passion to own a R15 here, off-course picked one at Yamaha Showroom (not XBHP) . Then got to know about Mr Joel Joseph here and finally entered the mutant world of modifications.

Thanks to XBHP!!!!

Introduction:

Now, lets start from scratch, I am sure when a noob R15 walah like me, hear the word "Re-Boring your R15 Engine to 165CC", the 1st thing strikes the mind would be "WILL IT SCREW MY BIKE's ENGINE?"

The Answer is 50-50 (Negotiable)

Yamaha after many researches and 50+yrs of experience have developed the LC Engine technology and have ended-up with the R15 in India, so they cannot be wrong at any cost with their tuning. Now disturbing this nature may end-up unpleasant or a perfect bike with more power, justifying the Deltabox.

Here goes the Journey that I had the past one year,

Spark -> Flame -> Fire:

Now after reading XBHP threads from bikers like abhimanyu31 , KwokFist, digislayer etc the spark for modifications got induced in me and later turned into a Flame. So finally got the fire in me and decided to get my bike Re-bored to 165CC. So I myself with my noob knowledge decided to get the 165CC Bore, ECU and Air Filter. These items were shortlisted coz, in my stock R15 the overdrive gear (6th) had very less torque at 9000RPM.

So my imagination, the 165CC will take care of the torque issue and ECU will help me in passing through the cutoff showing a 150+ on speedo. Strict no no to FFE, coz the Cops and my Dad don't like it (May be both are same) and someone told me highlift cam will reduce mileage so "no thanks, Joel I don't want your cam"

Scene 1: (Visiting Joel)

At 1st I honestly thought it was a re-bore, but actually Joel gives a fresh new block, so I think I can say re-blocking to 165CC. Now to make things sure on fitment, I left to Bangalore on my bike and got the setup done in say 2-3Hrs and started backwards.





I had a pillion with me and Joel said not to stress the engine, so we came to Chennai back riding 10Hrs at 60KMPH with 3 breaks in between. I was very sure that I have to run-in <5K RPM upto 1000KMS then change the oil and rip the throttle. So the bike was really good up untill the run-in. I was very curious to see how it performs at higher RPM.

Scene 2: (Stranded for Help)

Now I did about 1200KMs under 5K RPM and did change my oil promptly at 1000KMS, ideal time to rip the throttle. Also on the same day I had an important meeting at office, should present my new Network diagram to clients who came from onsite. Got my PPTs ready and was even more excited to know how my bike is going to perform the next day. As like all days, hit the Chennai By-pass closed access-elevated highway and crossed the toll booth, almost no traffic and ripped the throttle till 9K RPM. I felt something strange, stopped the bike the bike sounded like a Share-Auto and shutdown. Never started again. Presentation gone, Hopes down, most importantly no one to help me from there. Finally was rescued by my friend and got things corrected at office in the afternoon.

Scene 3: (Replacement Block) April 2011

"Carried" the bike to service and got to know the piston rings busted, compression seal is leaked. Now the piston rings have to be cleaned in the Gear assembly, so need to open crank case. Called Joel and he gave a replacement block even without asking for the old one the next moment.




Replaced the Crank con rod and tit bits and got the bike to running condition with his new block. This time planned to slowly train the bike to reach higher RPMs like many experts said, so did a soft run-in for 1000KMS and effortlessly took the bike to higher RPMs by increasing the RPM by 1000RPM each day. Now this time the bike was good and it did upto 9K RPM with any issues and later it had no torque, but the question in me was that my stock setup was doing the same job and why should I have such a vibey setup? Day by day I felt like riding my old Apache 150 and times my old bike felt lot smoother. Posted a few queries in XBHP and I was kicked-off stating I have to learn about bikes 1st.

One annoying thing is that I have to wait for 60-90secs at 3K RPM every cold start and while asking for a cure, the response I got was "learn about engines". OMG, my question was if that type of ignition is required why all bikes around the world don't have it? . One more similar compromise was the engine over heating, the radiator fan will never forget to turn-off as soon as I kill the Engine Switch.

Scene 4: (Stranded for Help - Part2)

This time it was a night on the same highway and I decided to open the throttle and I said to myself "Come on Boss, its 1600KMS run-in and whatelse?" twisted the throttle to 11K RPM in 3rd gear and next thing I did was switching the LEFT - Indicator flasher. The same issue, coz same Share Auto sound and bike did not start after that got help from a cop on the way and reached home late night.

This time I knew what was wrong with the bike and did not want to come to Joel or XBHP.

Scene 5: (Another Mission Impossible attempt)

The next day got a call from a gentleman, Mr: shahdupeshkhan and he wanted me to get the bike to him and he will take care of this issue, so took the bike to him and he did re-bore the block and change the Piston to a piston thats used on Boat engines and used HH Ambition piston rings.





He did port the head. The bike encountered compression leakage twice on the way home after picking up the bike from him and once the entire electrical wiring got fried. Mr: shahdupeshkhan was with me and cleared all the problems and gave me the bike. Have to say I am not a profitable customer to him, but I wasn't happy either. The bike was performing smooth and performance was not on par to the previous setup so kept things within myself to avoid hard feelings within us.


Scene 6: ("IT" happened again at its Best)

This time on a busy street, banged behind an auto-rickshaw. I didn't knew why it happened at that moment. I was driving at around 50KMPH and suddenly something stuck, like the rear tire got locked and the auto was a bit closer to me, so while applying the front brake very hard, there was a skid. Got a nice wound in my right knee which got me a week's off and front part of my bike was missing.

Now what caused the tire lock? gave the bike to service and they said the Piston got damaged and the crank got stalled. Got a final settlement from Mr: shahdupeshkhan coz he did not return my original block. Luckily I had my friend's old stock block, so payed a 4K Bill for the bike and rest was all taken care by insurance.

Scene 7: (I hit the Throne)

This is the most important scene. I had a load of vengeance at the beginning of this scene , coz the bike/medical insurance paid for the damages, but not to my confidence. So I had my friend's Joel 165CC block with me and did not want to use the same piston, coz it put me in trouble as many times as the word "SEVERAL" means. So I started to take the wrench in hand and surfed the Internet. Got good contacts like Bro Haen (tiara1974), Sir Traxxas (traxxas-modifier) from T135 forum and many other world class tuners.

Anyone who needs assistance can surely contact Bro Haen here, coz he has enough knowledge to advice Factories. With all these experience I advice you that he is the correct person.

Now I have my own bike to test with, so why not me sit on the "TUNER" throne? I had contacts with about 10 professional tuners and all pointed out hispeedpiston got a proper 61MM Yamaha/Honda R-Type Piston and re-bored the 165CC locally to fit the block precisely. Got a lighter crank-con rod from Faito racing.





Re-ported the same head a little bit (Elliptical porting as advised by an expert) and polished both the bore and head with a ceramic coat to bring the setup to operate smooth, near about to Diasil/Forged technology.



Removed catalytic converter for better flow, extended the end pipe for little more compression. Closed the Air Induction System to avoid exhaust popping, Find my Thread on this.



Got GTO oil treatment from paulsonaivy, at 1st I thought it was just a gimmick, but yes you can take my word, it lives the label as true and frank as this thread. My bike is revving much better/smoother on par to stock R15 till 12K RPM and at the same time the Motul 300V FS drain interval has moved to 8000KMS from 5000KMS. Not to forget got my Joel -ECU re-tuned by Joel to reduce the fuel supply. Also currently I am using an industrial grade coolant called M7 to sort the cooling issue, the cost is similar to stock one, but its being sent by my Indonesian friend.

Champagne Time:

After all the burden, I did all the modds myself at my home with assistance from a Yamaha mechanic during Sundays. 3 Sundays, I played with grease and got my setup ready.



Yes this time its not a Joke. I got what I wanted, the bike revs very smooth. Did a dyno test here and was happy to see 19+HP at the wheel. Moreover the bike was just like another stock R15 very quiet and smooth, but on contrast had the power and torque to trouble the CBR250.

Runs between 40-45KMPL and I feel the 120KMPHish torque at 140KMPH, so that made me really happy and for the past 10months had no issues on the Engine at all, moved to Iridium spark with split fire cable and got the chain/sprockets changed.



The Mummy Returns:

As the title says, the devil in me returned early this year and this is the most Juiciest part of the thread. I wanted to do something more, though the previous setup proved to be reliable for 10,000KMS, still I did not want to continue. I wanted a 180CC Setup which has Forged piston and Nicasil Block. So contacted many tuners in Indonesia, finalized a deal with Bro Haen, but at the same time another block manufacturer washed my brain and took me to a new world. I feel guilty, coz without even informing Bro Haen, I changed my mind.

You may think that I don't consider spending for these modds, it may be true in the past I lost about 10K, but not now. This time I started a new business and do all my modds with the profit from the business, let me explain it later.


Time after Time:

The new world that I was talking about is UMA RACING. Next to Malossi kit, UMA is the only kit which has superior quality and finishing. The quality and reliability is as such that it can be slightly better than stock anytime. Just take a look at the kit, you will understand that its not way in comparison to the usual 165CC kits sold here in India and to your surprise the cost of the kit is almost same or slightly lesser than usual 165CC kits sold here.



Also I always crib on these things in my R15,

1) Headlamp Brightness
2) Braking power
3) Chain adjustment every 500KMS
4) Skinny rear and front tires.

1) Ordered a pair of 35W, 3000K Color temp, Kensun brand HID kit from US.

2) I got PSM brand 320MM Disc plates from my friend in Indonesia, I am really grateful to him, .Bro Haen can supply them too.



Got a pair of steel braided lines too.



3) Got an automatic chain tensioner, to avoid drive chain often getting loose.



4) Rear tire huger and front fork shroud (To slightly coverup the skinny looks)





And got the below parts for the performance devil in me,

UMA 62MM Forged Nicasil Block



UMA 32MM Throttle body



Denso 10 Hole Fuel injector (on way from Bro Haen)

Additionally my bike's head does not require any porting, coz the current porting is at its best, so anymore porting needs a valve upgrade. Which I don't require at this point.



Still I did not order a High-lift cam or sprockets. The main reason is that the Stock R15 has the best cam and sprocket combination. If I move to a different combination I would either have better pickup or top-end. Same applies to cam, UMA high-lift cam is superior in quality and will hit 12K RPM on 6th gear at ease, but will not perform well at the lower RPMS. So I decided to stay where I am with stock sprockets and cam. You may find this interesting, but not enough $$$ with me to buy one

Now, as I am typing this article, all the parts and items are fitted in an Yamaha service nearby and I am fortunate to have the service manager as my close friend.

................this part to be continued later.

The Turning Point:

I did mention about a business earlier right? to throw some light on it, I started a Facebook fan page for R15 Version 2.0 just to have interaction with more experts to help me with my bike. After months of hard-work online, its running successful now. Which is just a fan page and its non-commercial. So with this page I started another commercial page.

After the PSM plates import, I got the contacts at customs and made them friends. Now, I import accessories directly from Indonesia and sell it here at a minimum profit, coz I need I believe in slow and steady business and moreover its just a part time for me (I am an IT Engineer) . Also I import products in bulk directly from the manufacturers. Hence the cost at which I sell it, after shipping and customs will be equal to the retail cost sold in that country. So with the small and sweet profit earned, I got my performance parts.

The Message:

My piece of advice from the experience I had, don't be fooled or deceived by anyone or any review that says, put this, put that you will get XXXBHP, coz I did not get it. Those reviews would have a sweet ending "NOW AM ENJOYING THE POWER !!!" but you may not get the same outcome. A modification can be good at race track, but it cannot be the same for everyday use.

I have sold my friend's 1yr old R15 for just 55K (Boon), who's bike got stalled about 5times with the 165CC block, I honestly feel sorry for his parent's hard earned money. Hence, I want everyone who go through this review not to face any hardchip or loss. Most importantly don't come to a conclusion just by reading reviews alone, try contacting other experts, the best place I would point is "best bike modifiers and mechanics" thread in XBHP, you can find an expert near your place and you can have a word with them directly. I don't say modifications are bad, but getting the correct setup is hard, I'd always agree with psr ,

"The only thing I had learnt again here is to leave things as stock for reliability, safety and peace of mind. " - psr (Senior Member-XBHP)


Thanks to All !!!



..........................to be continued with the outcome of my new complete 180CC Setup................................................

Topic Approved. Congratulations Harish. You can share more info about these modifications here..

excellent thread ! great info

Its nice to get some unbiased user experiences like this one.

Congrats on the acheivement and but feel sorry for the many people you had similar experience.

man o man , u've got lots of patience to do all these mods
I'm sure these mods have burnt ur pockets
but they have let u to see another world of performance other than this scenario in India

can u post more info about those Indonesian guys or link to their performance parts or such ?

Your patience to try is awesome! Am skeptical to big bore kits since early days and if I had any such issue of stalling, I don't know what I would be upto. You went ahead even after having a bad start, that's the best part. Can you please provide some more details of the brakes (cost/any modification for mounting)? Am interested in it!

Originally Posted by hunkofgals

man o man , u've got lots of patience to do all these mods
I'm sure these mods have burnt ur pockets
but they have let u to see another world of performance other than this scenario in India

can u post more info about those Indonesian guys or link to their performance parts or such ?

Originally Posted by vickks

Your patience to try is awesome! Am skeptical to big bore kits since early days and if I had any such issue of stalling, I don't know what I would be upto. You went ahead even after having a bad start, that's the best part. Can you please provide some more details of the brakes (cost/any modification for mounting)? Am interested in it!

I have mentioned all the links in the thread itself and Just read my Signature and you will know where to catch me

Congratulations, eagerly waiting for your review or the 180cc kit.
Why are you dealing only with the r15, why dont you try dealing with other premium bikes too?

Dear Harish First of all let me congratulate you for rising like the Phoenix from ashes to conquer the problems and acquiring Knowledge..
I know what you must have felt like when you achieve what you did.....nothing can equal it...from a newbie going in for a big bore to a knowledgeable person working with Forged Nickasil parts, is a long walk into the world of Knowledge.....and you were good enough to warn members of the Perils of Modifications,without dampening their spirits.
My Good wishes to you for acquiring greater knowledge and Wisdom..