General SBK Discussion Thread

[kachhhing]

Originally Posted by Streetfighter

Do I detect a hint of sour grapes?

lol..... surely a case of sour grapes

[kachhhing]

[QUOTE=TenHut;494331]I dont mind paying the premium. But I do mind if the premium is for the brand alone and not for performance.

how many people who buy these bikes take them to the track??? stats say 9%

e.g : S1000RR will cost roughly the same as an 848
848 doesnt even have a steering damper and needless to say the S1000RR has every god damn thing out there. The BMW is a true exotic bike.

u have to admit..... the beemer doesnt look half as good as the 848, its just a gorgeous machine.
i buy my bikes for the looks and yes decent performance

[kachhhing]

Originally Posted by AsimB

I own a 696 and a 1198s and ive ridden many jap bikes and I completely disagree.

Ducati are priced so high not only because of brand name! Do you know that ducatis are not mass produced like the japanese sport bikes? They are mostly hand built which requires a lot of time as opposed to how jap bikes are built and assembled, automation!

Do you know that ducatis are always the lightest bikes in their respective classes? i own a 1198s which weights 169kg, compare that to any other bike including the s1000rr (183kg) and youl know what im talking about. The vtwins have more torque to weight than any other bikes, 97lb-ft @ 8000rpm for the 1198 vs the 82.5 lb-ft @ 9,750 rpm for the bmw. The torque peaks well before on the 1198. Do you know what that means? That means coming out of a corner the 1198 will smoke the bmw. The same goes with the bhp, you have more horses on tap on the 1198 at very low rpms! I agree that the max is lower on the 1198, but the difference in torque makes up for it. The 1198s is closest to its WSBK counterpart than any other manufacturer out there.

About the price, dont compare the bmw to the 848 or the 1198. Compare it to the other jap bikes, its priced similar to all other liter bikes but has so much more to offer. Whys that? I believe bmw is taking a loss on the s1000rr since theyre entering an area where japs and italians have dominated for the last god knows how many years and they want to prove they can make equally good bikes.

i dont buy the hand built shit !!! it is criminal to charge a premium for the bike and not have all the electronic / hydrolic aid the other bikes have , but having said that, the dukes build their bikes to sell...... damper or no damper.. they do sell !! so am sure they arent complaining , neither do any of the duke owners

[kachhhing]

Originally Posted by TenHut

Ducati slashed their prices like nuts out here. 848 got cheaper by 3.5 lakhs OTR. You wanna guess where that extra money was going earlier ? Into the ducati "charge the customer for brand" account. Cmon dude...whether its made by hand or robot..plonk in a steering damper..the thing does good speeds...lack of one on a 17 lakhs bike cannot be justified. If running out of hands get a robot maybe or just get more hands. I dont buy the 'hand built' argument.

Step 1 : Buy a BMW..or any jap bike.
Step 2 : Now race tune the shit out of it and carbon fibre the thing black.
Step 3 : See how light it is now ! See how much power it now makes ! See how much torque it now makes !
Step 4 : Now see if it costed you more than the price of 1198S ?

Point is, if you put the extra money on a jap bike or a BMW cause you wanna make it close to a WSBK bike you will end up with something that rapes the track and you could buy yourselves shit loads of slicks and still have some money left over. So the price at which 1198S stands you cant really compare it to stock bikes ! 1198S is not stock, it is to ducati what AMG is to Mercedes.

I have ridden 22 laps at hockenheim on the 1198S.
The torque advantage you speak of doesnt guarantee you a good drive out a corner. You still have to work towards getting a good drive just as much as you have to work on any other engine configuration. That Vtwins make more torque is also a wrong interpretation. They also have highest frictional power losses. A twin gives you a more relaxed fast ride due to the torque down low while the japs give you an involved fast ride. Common word for both being : fast !

Take my opinion as you would of anyone random on the street. Everyone has theirs...I am just voicing it for I love to compare bikes...my next bike is a 1198S so I aint saying they should stop making bikes..I am just saying they should come out of that 'I am elite' attitude and give me my moneys worth.


yes, thats what is happening. So the others will compete now. Like everybody has since aeons. 2011 ZX10R with its gizmos and shit loads of HP is rumoured to be the BMW killer isnt it ?


now thats a point I cant argue against. Performance on the street really is a moot point. Well said.


no that was just a comment to get your attention

Agree, u spend some extra moolah on the beemer and u will have a duke breaker...... but when u sell the bike u wont get any money back for all the extra stuff on the bike.
while when u sell the duke u will always make the money back

[kachhhing]

I think you got confused between the cbr1000rr and the cb1000r. Visit the honda website and learn about the differences.[/QUOTE]

aw come on dude !!! now thats being nasty......
but i agree.. one look at the streetfighter is enough to floor any one
one question, i fu r strictly gonna ride ur bikes on mumbai roads, would u rather have a CB or a SF?
I would go with what my heart than my head and go for the SF, cuz personally i love the attitude the bike has.... my 2 cents of course !!

[TenHut]

Originally Posted by Streetfighter

I don't care about s1000rr or cbr or r1; why are you even comparing them to an 848, not in the same class.

who is comparing them. I am pointing out the fact that they cost the same...and that they are not in the same class IS EXACTLY my issue. They cost the same and are nowhere close to each other in performance.

Originally Posted by Streetfighter

Price drop has reasons; duties, exchange rate, increase sales, etc.

No the price drop wasnt due to duties or exhange rates nor due to increased sales.

Originally Posted by Streetfighter

It seems, like already pointed out above, you just have an issue with the 848 not having a steering damper.

No, the 848 not having a steering damper is merely an example. I would never buy that bike...

Originally Posted by Streetfighter

We'll wait for a new thread to hear you crib about that too; perhaps no adjustable frame?

If the BMW decides to unethically loot by dangling the brand carrot, hell yes I will then make another thread to crib about it. Because thats not business 101 as someone pointed out. Thats trying to get away by exploiting the elitist thinkers amongst the masses perhaps !
When you say riding a Ducati feels different and better than the jap bikes which are found on the roads by the ton, I giggle. It comes accross to me as "hey mine maybe small, but I am glad its unique"

Sorry dude, I ride 3 Jap bikes but I guess some of the attitude brushed onto me too

Originally Posted by AsimB

TenHut;494650] I think everyone who complains that ducatis arent worth the money will buy a ducati if they had a few $$ more to spare

Lemme give you my example...i was refraining from touching these topics as one has to be gay to make such a conversation but what the hell. As long as its taken the right way.
I have spent an amount twice the price(indian price) of a 1198S onto my biking in a single year. I went ahead and invested heavily in California Superbike Schooling sessions and also in random trackday abroad and on 3 bikes one of which I even managed to total in 21 days like a total noob.
But I did not buy the 1198S..I am still only pondering whether I should buy it or spend that money on riding schools.
So everyone who complains isnt doing so for the grapes are sour or they dont have the $$ to spare. On the contrary I think some Ducati owners are too proud to admit that their precious $$ could have been better spent somewhere else. This will sound very unfair as this may not be applicable to you but is applicable to most Ducati owners out there.

Originally Posted by AsimB

I agree, it has a lot to do with the rider's capabilities. What I'd meant was you take the 1198 and any other bike going at the same pace into a turn, coming out of that turn the bike with more torque will pull harder.

Again the reason why you find torque down low on a twin and up high on a four has nothign to do with the fact that they are twins or fours. Engine layout isnt determining the torque you are so loving on your 1198S.
Its the intake-charge velocity which is determining that. So if you take a 1198S which has been worked on and tuned for the tracks and compare its graphs to a stock inline four you will think the 1198S is hauling ass. Now if you decrease the intake charge velocity on the same four..put into the head the largest and the lightest valves you will have a four with more torque than the twin and an even more HP for the tracks. So dont generalise saying twins have more power off the turns. You are comparing a stock bike to a not stock bike when talkign about torque out the corners and therein lies the fallacy.

Originally Posted by AsimB

It is definitely not a wrong interpretation! They have frictional losses like any other inline 4, even if the losses are more the torque is still much higher. See the attached images. The twin doesnt just give you torque down low, it has higher torque all the way upto 10,000rpm.

Publore says they have you more torque. Also twins have more frictional losses in the valve train, thanks to needing two sets of slightly larger cams, two cam chains, stiffer springs pushing on larger, heavier valves moving through more lift and, of course, all the bearings necessary to support all the extra hardware.
Add to that the fact that, the frictional losses incease by the square in relation to cam rotation speed- and remember, you have four cams pushing on the bigger valves and hardware

Twins are tuned to dish out torque at low revs because they cannot rev higher without loosing out power to dissipation. So they make twins which dish torque low down...not because its advantageous...because engineering wise its a must...they dont do it for you to get better drive off a turn because it doesnt give you a better drive off a turn. Like it or not..twin is a slightly older/dated version of an IC engine.
You can also tune an inline to deliver the same amount of torque at 4k rpm. But why do that ? You lose out on HP and since inlines can rev they chose to have HP AND torque. Inlines have lesser engineering restrictions and you can play around with it the way you want. But there’s the subjective feeling that V-Twins provide. Producing one large power cycle per crank revolution, and staging those pulses at staggered intervals, not only yields a character that can be felt and heard, it punches all the right feel-good buttons and hence I am pondering of buying one.
But I aint buying one cause its got better torque down low or better drive out a corner..

I think, the truth of the matter is that it depends on your riding style. A twin does not have a sudden power band. The power comes on straight and linear...so no sudden surprises. A lazy rider will like this, as was said, you really don't need to worry about what gear you're in comming out of the corner. Hit the gas and go. An I4 takes a little more thought, if you hit the gas at any point and you're in the right gear you're gonna either flip the sucker, loose traction and go ditch surfing, or bog down and cruise out of the corner like grandma with a trailer. Although apply a nice smooth throttle, in the right gear, and you leave the twin wondering where you went...if you've got the skill to pull it off.

Thats what I meant when I said the twin is a relaxed fast ride while the inline a more involved fast ride.

Now twins vs inlines wasnt the discussion at all.
My point was the Ducs are an overkill when it comes to price for the performance they have to offer. And then the publore which always makes twins seem like they are this creation of god and gibberish. It is a lifestyle product at this price..thats about it. Nothing else.

All said and done I am loving this discussion...finally something better than
"oh congrats on your nice bike"
"nice I love this bike "
"oh wow awesome gear.."
"the front end is ugly"
"the front end looks like megatron"

We are all riders...we ride for pleasure and we discuss for enlarging our perspectives...and so what if we throw in a few tantrums and trolls while we are at it. Thats the fun part of posting online...

[TenHut]

Originally Posted by Streetfighter

Oh, and you need to get your facts right; it's a CB1000R. Xcess version, done by an italian design house.

I think you got confused between the cbr1000rr and the cb1000r. Visit the honda website and learn about the differences.

I ride a grandRR myself and have test ridden the Cb1000R when I was at the showroom buying the 1000RR
If you notice the picture i posted is called " guessbike "
It was posted as not many know of CB1000R Xess ( not Xcess) and hence the title " CBR1000RR now a street fighter " was thrown in mislead on purpose...thats why "guess bike"
The line " twice the performance at half the price" was a troll....and was not used specifically to compare CB vs SF but to compare bikes vs Ducatis in general.

Are you answered ?

[sheelpriye]

Hey Hey Hey! Good read!

Now I am sure where I would get a fix for my high.

[darkknight]

Originally Posted by sheelpriye

Hey Hey Hey! Good read!

Now I am sure where I would get a fix for my high.

Indeed my man indeed.
Doesn't get better than this

[niranjanvaidya]

Originally Posted by sheelpriye

Hey Hey Hey! Good read!

Now I am sure where I would get a fix for my high.

hahahaha...touche!!