Olias

As I'm very ignorant of Biker Culture in India but pretty well versed about the scene in the West, I wonder if you guys could enlighten me on a few points.

Apologies if this is the wrong section to post this in.

Certain things have become associated with biking and bikers. One being tattoos, the other is music.

Is there a tattoo culture in India and do bikers in India (i.e. the more hardcore lifestyle guys) express their identity with tattoos?
If so, what kind of tattoos?
If not, how are tattoos viewed by wider Indian society?
If not, as the bike scene evolves there, do you see that being a part of the culture and why.

Do bikers in India associate certain music styles with biking? And... what are they?

Again.... Please excuse my ignorance. I have a million questions and hope that you'll be patient with me. LOL!!

I'd also like to add that if I inadvertently cause offence with a comment or saying it is because of wider cultural differences between us (i.e. my ignorance of Indian culture in general) and not because it is intended, I'd never consciously do that. What goes in one country/culture may not be acceptable to another. Just so that you guys know that my intentions are good ones.

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Topic Moved and Approved.

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Samarth 619

Well, Tattos are more famous in the south India ... Mostly with Royal Enfields Groups.

I don't think Bikers need to be tattoed... but this just my subjective opinion. Yeah, it is a culture. More & more people adopt biking as a recreational activity ...

Can't say about Music. It's one's own preference ...

yeah, it's okay. You can comfortably ask any question ...

HydroXidE

I'm sure that in your on-going quest to know more about the Indian biking culture, you'll come across some bizarre ways in which Indians express themselves as bikers..

When you look at the Indian biking scene, you'll have to look at an 'indian' biker with great detail.. as this caters to a very wide spectrum.. ranging from people who just go bling-bling to people who try to ape the west in every way possible.

At one extreme you'll find some not so discerning people who let their motorcycle speak their attitude. Right from ornamental lighting to multiple exhausts for a poor 100-cc bike. The creativity in this department among south-asian countries is sky high. You'll see stickers of all shapes and colours, and messages that'll crack you up.

At the other extreme, you might find 'pretend' bikers who buy serious bikes, try out serious gear, have tattoos and urban clothing to match and will listen to heavy metal (for the coolness factor) and pretend to be hardcore bikers in their attempt to fake the western motorcycle culture.

In between these two extremes, you'll find multiple categories of people with varied shades, hues, cultural variations and interests,... everyone from the average indian who commutes to work everyday, for whom the motorcycle is an essential component of day-to-day life, ..to the youth culture.. to the serious motorcyclist who always looking to do something more than what he/she did earlier.. to a less known discerning group of professionals in the field of motorcycles (tuners, racers, restorers & collectors etc) for whom their achievements, success and glory define their way of life.

Happy exploration..

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ken cool

I did a short reply on your intro thread. As I was saying, "biking culture" in India hovers between non-existent and negligible and moving northwards but not exponentially. The process is slow to make you drowsy. But a few of us here make a lot of noise about biking culture. There are some of us who are into serious touring with 13 Bhp engines. There are others who religiously participate in Raid de Himalaya. But their numbers are abysmally low.

Manufacturers obviously want to hear the cash registers ringing most of the time. So they make their fast buck by making multiple variants of the same engine rehashed with newer glitzy looking stickers and better polished plastics promising that you can make it from here to the moon and back with just petrol fumes.

As far as performance biking scene goes, there are only 2 tracks open to the public in a country with 1.3 billion people and nearly twice the size of entire Europe. And both tracks are in the South. That itself will speak volumes of the kind of attitude divide there is in the country.

Tattoos is not common here amongst bikers. Actually, most of the time, there are not too many corporal manifestations of a biker in this country. You cannot recognise a biker from a distance away from his steed. And if you see a guy riding a Zma (short for Karizma), apparently the most trusted touring-performance-dirt all incorporated into one bike, delivering a 17Bhp at the crank, you CANNOT safely assume that that dude is part of the biking culture. But you cannot dismiss him either. To recognize a biker here, you have to talk to him and gauge his attitude... his inclinations... his priorities... there are no exterior tell-tale signs.

And to give you an example of what manufacturers dish out to us... Honda converted their crf223 to what they, and now we, call the Karizma and this is marketed as the premium sports motorcycle in the country.

This is just a tiny introduction to what happens in this country. You will learn a lot as you go along.

No, there are no Screaming eagle tattoos, nor will you see too many customised HDs. Talking about customisation, that is another story that we will soon talk about I am sure.

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Olias

Thanks Samarth, Hydro & Ken.....

Your info's very helpful. I need your perspectives and please keep them coming. The biker culture here is so evolved and it's easy to tell at a glance what section of biking people fall into by the way they dress.

Similarly we have guys here who act the part, be they sportsbike riders or on custom machines who couldn't ride round the block as it were, they just like to look 'fast', 'mean' or 'cool'. LOL. We have folk who just go ride and we have lifestyle bikers who almost reject society's norms to live their "free" way of life. The fact that we have a 50 to 60 year old culture makes biking all the more interesting. The main thing is, in my mind... that they ride... no matter what it is.

Thanks again for your time and in anticipation of future posts.

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Xenologik

Well Olias ,

yes from what i see in other biking forums internationally, there are distinct grouping in the west , supersports , cruisers , and adventure riders etc etc.

ill inform of you of one organised culture that we are trying to boost, which is sensible safe biking with promotion of skills, information & other discussions. that is on Xbhp.

the thing is biking here is very disorganised. neither we have any motorcycle that is actually customised to the neeed. most of the bikes you'll see are sold on the basis of these factors

- Kmpl figures (not efficiency actually) , a bike is first here evaluated by this magical number. higher it is better it can sell
- Reliability and cheap spares - yes so that it further is less on the pocket
- Stickering and Cosmetics , a bike necessarily sells on its looks as well.

from what Ken Sir has written, the karizma is a "high perfomance bike" here with the 17hp engine output. you cal tell how much choice we actually have here.

I am prefferably a tourer than a drag racer or a stunter. but basically i cant find a bike that is tailor made for just touring. i just had to pick one up from the offerings here and select the best that would be the nearest to a good touring bike.

here's what i mean

the following four bikes are essentially same bikes , repackaged in different looks, that's it. those are the choices we get here



THe hero honda CBZ-xtreme




The Hero Honda Achiever


The Honda Unicorn



all the bikes above are derived essentially from the Honda unicorn's 13hp 150cc single cyl engine. though the CBZ-xtreme and Hunk are 14.4 hp its just a cam adjustment to make the ignition timings slightly changed for that added hp figures.

out of the four above i chose the cbz-xtreme cause it suited me.


also another criteria i must add. motorcycling is essentially the common man's commute vehicle here rather than a lifestyle statement. and they are the majority of the sales.

there arent any special models introduced for us "lifestyle bikers" since we are hardly even 1% of the total masses.

ill post some more points and you could post more about what exactly you want to find !

Cheers
Sudeep

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ken cool

Great post there Xenologik. You actually took the pains of posting the pictures and giving the "performance" differences. I totally agree on this point. This is what biking is all about here.

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shadez

and the Indian economy also plays a major role.
every other person owns a bike here. these, called 'commuters' are the ones that are sold the most. people use them because they are handy and cheaper. and most wouldnt even known what cc or bhp is.

biking here is more of a daily, cheap, commuting option than a passion. except for some communities/people like xBhp ofcourse.

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Xenologik

Thank you Ken sir !

as i said here are more details as far as i can help
Biking in India

: Common Observations

- Bikes are for the poor and cars for the rich. i do not know how many would disagree to this but here's the general "feedback" i get from my batchmates in college when we talk about bikes.

- A bike is a bike and a car is a car. that's fine. but what they find hard to swallow is that an R1 costs more than the base model of Tata's 4x4 Safari DICOR.

a bike cant cost more than a car !

im sure many of the SBK riders on this forum in India must have experienced sneers and being labelled mad for buying a bike that costs more than the so called premium cars like "toyota corolla, honda civic , city etc etc"


Observations : Research and Development

Olias unlike in your country where you folks expect technical upgrades in the next variant of your bike (such as ABS, better suspension, aerodynamics, braking, throttle response)

what we get here is. Newer looks

I am NOT PARTICULARLY picking on HONDA for the sake of the post, this is the general truth for almost all the bikes we get here
Honda Unicorn first model with spoke wheels

This is the first model of the Unicorn when it was introduced in India. even this spoke wheel variant has seen 2-3 upgrades in form of colour schemes and stickering.

Honda Unicorn with mag wheels


so as to follow the current market trends for liking bikes with alloy wheels, the unicorn was finally brought out with the mag wheels. and with a chromed front mask.

Honda Unicorn Limited GP edition

This GP edition is JUST and JUST a repaint and stickering scheme and they sold it as a LIMITED edition



Observations : Modifications and After Market addons

and thus arrives my favourite part of the post

well you people in UK have aftermarket parts manufactured by good and age old factories like (Ohlins, Greddy, Brembo) etc etc , you want better brakes ? you got it ! you want extreme suspensions ? you got it. You want custom made exhausts and engine head modifications ? you got it.

and we have :-
Open tin cans with cheap metal gause for exhaust systems:-\

Oversized tyres for the macho looks !

white headlight bulbs so as to look killer on the streets (this i do not mean HID kits, simple plain white bulbs which are poor in lighting)

cheap chinese duplicate spare parts (instead of perfomance gain , we lose it) flooding the market.

modifications :

well most of us can't really buy an R1 , really. so here's the next best thing to have next to an Original R1 is.............

a Bajaj Pulsar


Modified to look like an R1

PulsaR1



even though the image is small, its clearly seen that the "deltabox frame" is PLASTIC, the bike is OUT of PROPORTION. the overly huge front mudguard simply makes the tyre look as if its a bicycle tyre....
Observations : Performance Options

You may have engine options, ABS, ceramic disc options, super soft compound tyre as options. we get

- Electric start ADD-ON
- Disc Brakes instead of Drum Brakes upfront
-Alloy Wheels

although THIS situation has improved a tad bit since at least Fuel Injected systems are coming in on bikes such as Bajaj Pulsar 220 DTS-Fi, TVS Apache RTR Fi, Yamaha R15

which also have Disc brakes in the rear wheel .


Observations : Needs and Ignorance

unfortunately Olias , what you see on this forum isnt at all the entire picture, not even 10x10 pixels of a 1024x768 image. We here at least know our bikes well, and to deal with the problems that do arise while using a motorcycle.

People here do not expect anything technical / performance wise from the manufacturers


this is the best i can explain,
ill split the Indian people in some categories as PER their needs

Working Masses

these people are primarily the main section of the Indian bike market. they essentially are looking for a good commuting bike with very decent kmpl figures and easy riding in city conditions.

this means
- the bike has to be geared properly for city use. no tall gearing and should have plenty of low end torque.
- It has to be fuel efficient bike.
- the costs of maintainance should be low
- the bike should last quite some years (not as a vintage rare bike which collectors maintain, but as a working daily use bike)

College Youth and other youngsters

well these bunch of people look for a bike with somewhat sportier characteristics. would prefer good 0-60 kmph figures, sporty styling (sharp edges, good colours), the bikes are usually trashed and bashed and crashed
but they are on a tight budget so they mostly cant go for a very thirsty bike. prefer the line between efficiency and power.

Enthusiasts
the rare bunch of people who buy the bikes they see the most useful to their needs and do customization on it. these people are rare, mark it. they do not do shitty mods and cosmetic craps on their bikes. they are more into track racing and well trash their bikes in no time. they may also be the part of the group below.

Bikers
and again a rare group here.
this group consists of people who are on forums like xbhp. we just don't consider our bikes are some motorised two wheeled machine to move / trash around, but we try to improve ourselves by helping each other out; to improve skills, technical knowledge etc etc. we try to understand the rules and the safety aspect of biking as well. im not being boastful, but that is the sole motive of me being here on this forum :- to be a better biker for tomorrow.

Poseurs (a group common with UK i think )
hehe. well they are sort of common :P mostly youth
they indulge in mindless and dangerous riding, without caring a hoooot for the other on the road. they call themselves GREAT bikers and will try to perform a stunt where the opposite sex is grouped , or will try to challenge you for a signal to signal drag in heavy traffic.

the rare poseurs
they also may be aware of superbikes (basically DHOOM bikes ) but they cant buy one. but they want those uffoh looks so they go modding their indian bikes with aftermarket fiberglass bodyshells and cheap alloys to make it look like a superbike. and most of them go horribly wrong (please refer the modified pulsaR1 ) in doing what they were trying to do. poor souls.



Ignorance.

before you think that the masses are ignorant to still go for such "bikes" please read on.

now the indian mentality is "if it aint broke, why fix it ? " and thus continues here in this land decade old engines with NEW REFRESHED stickers+ colours. efficiency hasn't really shot up. people are happy if the bike has a clear type headlamp reflector and has a LCD odo. they are also happy if the bike gives 60kmpl +. and they want a GOOD resale value of the bike when they finally sell it.

we primarily still look for cheap bikes. seriously. even I am not in a financial condition to buy an R6 even. I want a bike within my budget of say $2000-3000. and this is a HIGH budget for a bike according to indian standards.

although the difference here is.

I am aware of technology that can make a cheap small displacement bike better. the best example i can give is the yamaha R15. IT is different from the other premium indian bikes. its a 150cc mill (vixion in indonesia) which isnt too far away in performance from the pulsars or the apaches here. but it has that refinement that set it apart.

i am not speaking of quality control here, that is a different issue.

i booked the R15 because i felt that it was a class apart bike, and it did feel as if it had some engineering work done on it rather than a resticker and repaint job. this bike doesnt vibe , has better much engineering aspects. and is performance oriented, and has an F.I system to give a very decent 40+ kmpl for the power it has.

however
most of the masses are not aware of technology , nor they demand it. upgrading a bike will require R&D , which is eventually a LOSS for the Indian bike companies. why do you think most of the bike companies are still in PROFIT despite the recession ? its because they never HAD R&D costs to cover up !. they are simply selling old old bikes with just adhering to the NEW EMISSION norms. that's it.

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