Why aren't Bajaj bikes legend?? - Page 3 - xBhp.com : The Global Indian Biking Community

niranjanvaidya · 02-28-2009, 12:47 AM

This thread started as a question and then mutated into Bajaj Bashing thread...this seems like serious OT

There are questions that we need to closely ask...not related but still I wonder...why is it that we compare Bajaj with the Japanese Four? Why is it that we compare a company that started motorcycle production with in-house R&D a few years ago (First motorcyle introduced by Bajaj with in house R&D was the Pulsar classic in 2001) with some company that started making motorcycles a year after India gained independence (referring to Honda, est. 24 Sept 1948)?

Definition of Legend:
Noun
1. a popular story handed down from earlier times which may or may not be true
2. such stories collectively
3. a person whose fame makes him or her seem exceptional: he is a living legend
4. modern stories about a famous person which may or may not be true

Maybe, our definition of Legend is a twisted one?
Though I have never ridden one; but all those who have said that the Ducati 999R still sounds agricultural at idle and is not the most ergonomic/refined or for that matter comfortable to ride but we still admire and love it; and call it a legend

we surely have biased opinions

Synn · 02-28-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niranjanvaidya

This thread started as a question and then mutated into Bajaj Bashing thread...this seems like serious OT

It isn't. People are simply expressing their views on why they think bajaj bikes haven't quite achieved a legendary status. My personal view is that time is always the judge and it's simply too early to comment on the Bajaj's most successful models. Most members in this forum weren't of legal riding age or even BORN when some of the mentioned "Legendary" bikes debuted. Therefore, the correct judgment of the legendary status of say, the pulsar etc. will be determined when the children of today reach legal riding age.

That being said,

Quote:

Originally Posted by niranjanvaidya

Why is it that we compare a company that started motorcycle production with in-house R&D a few years ago (First motorcyle introduced by Bajaj with in house R&D was the Pulsar classic in 2001) with some company that started making motorcycles a year after India gained independence (referring to Honda, est. 24 Sept 1948)?

Because they both offer similar products that compete with each other in the same classes. The average customer couldn't care less about when and where the R&D was done, and by whom. He expects results and that's the end of that.

niranjanvaidya · 02-28-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synn

The average customer couldn't care less about when and where the R&D was done, and by whom. He expects results and that's the end of that.

+1 on that

you said it all

nightwing · 02-28-2009, 01:30 AM

Legends in order barring the Yamahas.

HH CBZ-the first bike that was made for more than just mileage.
Bajaj Pulsar Classic: Power/flamboyance to the masses.
HH Karizma: Indian biking redefined.Will be a benchmark forever.

blackcatasus · 02-28-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niranjanvaidya

+1 on that

you said it all

yup true like most Indians going to vote this yr :P

Bajaj is largest exporter of 2 wheelers = ie money is flowing in
Still in a slum u can also say H is safer investment for long term ... thats other side

nightwing can u elaborate u r 3rd point
HH Karizma: Indian biking redefined.Will be a benchmark forever.

i would i like to know u take first

Sandeep_K_Ram · 02-28-2009, 11:20 AM

There is only one "Legend" in Bajaj's history of making two wheelers. "Chetak" - a scooter.

And its a legend because it carried every middle class Indian family for such a long time. Was it two decades or more ?

It was not a legend because of reliability or performance or superb mileage. It was a legend because it did the donkey's work and was the ultimate utility vehicle - suitable for all kinds of work. Yes, once upon a time it was considered quite fashionable to take your chetak to office...

IMHO, the reasons why people dont warm up to BAL bikes as compared to the jap ones are -

Unreliable
Crudely built
Unfinished feel from the product
lack of refinement
Spares and Service a major headache.

This applies generally to all models.

The RACE engine in the 4S champion was just total bollocks. The KB100 was one my fav bikes as a kid - I loved the bike but technically it is said to be one of the most flawed bikes of that time. They actually brought out a RTZ 125cc .. dunno if it was any better.

Pulsars - for a while everybody was gungho that the Indian manf had taken a lead into the performance segment. But the lack of refinement, lack of complete-ness , poor spares, unreliability,poor service - all these things have started to make people think twice about even the ubiquitous pulsars.

I think the philosophy of BAL is also to be blamed. I think they have flooded the market with just too many models. 100CC,112cc, 125cc, 135cc,150cc,180cc,200cc,220cc

I am not having any qualms about 150,180,200,220 - the pulsars. But what about the mess in the 100 - 150cc category. Platina,CT100,Discover 112,125,135,150? and then the XCD 125/135 ? I am sorry if I have confused a couple of the products here - I am really confused as to how many models they have now !

I feel its better to bring out a solid reliable product in each segment and build on it rather than flood the market with cheap replica's of the same model with hardly incremental improvements.

I think BAL is repeating the mistake again - they are supposedly launching a 19PS P200 with the 220 fairing and a 180 with the 200 looks.

Its like selling flavoured milk in tetra packs rather than a glass bottle. As an end user it doesn't make a decisive difference to your purchase.

Binoy · 02-28-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindgrinder

+1 totalyl agreed

as i stated earlier RX 100 was the only performance option thats why we still talk about it.
.

+100 totally disagree..

Definitely wrong... we had KB100, shogun at that time (though i like shogun very much

)

as joel said an RX can be tuned to a 20bhp and RD can be tuned to a 50bhp... and never a pulsar can be compared to it...
As there are many pulsar's on road that doesn't mean pulsar's will be a legend...

Me had an RX100 '88 model (Japan stock)... Hop u have not much experience on the RX and RD... thats why u talk like this...

Pulsar will not be a legend...

c_sbk · 02-28-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandeep_K_Ram

There is only one "Legend" in Bajaj's history of making two wheelers. "Chetak" - a scooter.

And its a legend because it carried every middle class Indian family for such a long time. Was it two decades or more ?

I think the philosophy of BAL is also to be blamed. I think they have flooded the market with just too many models. 100CC,112cc, 125cc, 135cc,150cc,180cc,200cc,220cc

I am not having any qualms about 150,180,200,220 - the pulsars. But what about the mess in the 100 - 150cc category. Platina,CT100,Discover 112,125,135,150? and then the XCD 125/135 ? I am sorry if I have confused a couple of the products here - I am really confused as to how many models they have now !
I think BAL is repeating the mistake again - they are supposedly launching a 19PS P200 with the 220 fairing and a 180 with the 200 looks.

Its like selling flavoured milk in tetra packs rather than a glass bottle. As an end user it doesn't make a decisive difference to your purchase.

+ 1.very well,practical and true reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leon_nerd

Bajaj bikes will become legendary if you keep riding your discover till 2020 even when the world has hopped onto 1500 CCs, I ride my pulsar til 2050 when I can no longer rider it due to age factor, when Aryan's grandkids will still their grandfather's Red 180 Pulsar tank in their garage apart from xbhp, when c_sbk's kids own a whole big garage of Bajaj bikes, when MG's supergrand kids are still riding on the supermod's P220, when JB kas travelled across Botswana clicking the wildlife on his P200 and when B2l's kids become the CEO of an IT company and still ride B2l's P200 to their board room office (you know what I mean

).

NAHI,main tab bhi un sabko mana karunga ki bajaj ki bikes kabhi mat kahridna na kisi ko sugeest karna

.garage toh tab banega na jab main aage koi aur bajaj kharidunga

.

KB 125 is an attempt to compete with yamaha rxg for cc wise.Even KB 125 cant hold candle against it's own predecessor KB100 in drag ya seriously.
issues
1.over heating in stop n go traffic.
2.high vibration feeling over 50+ kph.
3.piston life is just 15-18k kms.
4.drinking engine oil is common problem if rev hard and abused.

rpmboy · 02-28-2009, 01:12 PM

Bajaj has been with the INDIANs like us for so many days. Its an brand which can be associated with trust with little bit of pleasure. Most of us hav spent their better half yrs of learning on an Bajaj scooter. But it does not mean that they are going to reign the whole market all yrs to come. Pulsar 's came when the market had to be ripened and it had matured a lot. Every bike have some glitches and it have to live with it no issues. May b i BUSA or R1, there is always an critic associated with an bike. So, Bajaj Pulsars were the companies first way of showing off to the masses. Still in India we will not forget fuel economy,price,performance. SO the companies hav to come up with engines which are suitable for INDIA specs. No companyy can take risk of loosing an mass market and this market is much fought for. Many models came and left GF125,GF160, Graptor, Beemer etc aint these bikes meant for perormance and bea the pulsars. Yes , in the purest form.
Another fact that I want to share is that , most of us including me, for me Pulsar is the 1st bike , and I hav many many memories associated with the same. Selling my bike will be a really tough situation and I m going to keep it as long as I can. Touring has been the forte for Pulsars some how in Indian respect. Ya, its true that the performance reduces after 500kms of constant touring but we mst also remember that we aint touring on AUTOBAHN,Germany. I think Pulsar has the best geometry when it comes to braking. I hav stopped my bike with only using DISKBRAKE, it almost stopped like an bike fitted with ABS , well tyres were new then. The Progrssive clutch enables the engine braking like no other. So much beefed response, to make u more targetted on the road.
Its loosing now due to new comers , Yam has been acting like an shy boy but in party time it had been waltz-ing with the sexiest girl. Sameway now its going ga-ga over the technologies it had perfected in past. All the foreign companies have been bringing there axes on domestic manuacturer. Its gd for us as we will get the best of the lot. And thats where BAJAJ is loosing right now.
No matter which SBK I ride in future be it R1, BUSA, FZ600etc there will always be an BAJAJ in my garage for rejuvinating old cherished memories.
Right now I hav 150cc Pulsar DTSi but soon an 220 and soon may be if Bajaj extends the brand to Pulsar 600RR !!! It will be very hard to kill brand ,and Bajaj wont kill Pulsar in the land were it made it world known. I love an KARIZMA but see what the HH doing in that , giving the INdians an detuned Honda engine . We hav not developed to that level but that does not mean that for long we can be delivered with detuned engines. I HAVE NO TRUST IN hERO HONDA brand whatso ever. But some of the bikes may be gd on our shores. Pulsar in some parts of the world is competing globally with HONDA,YAMAHA , SUZUKI. Does HH even think abt this??

rider_rock · 03-02-2009, 12:14 AM

bajaj products as legends, highly debateable, remember those days when every company were launching products which were inclined towards economy, then comes THE CBZ & with that comes the competitor THE PULSAR which were responsible for the bikes we see here in indian market, even PULSARS are associated with xbhp , need any more reason

Quote:

Definition of Legend:
Noun
1. a popular story handed down from earlier times which may or may not be true
2. such stories collectively
3. a person whose fame makes him or her seem exceptional: he is a living legend
4. modern stories about a famous person which may or may not be true

ask people they all have stories with bajaj with them , be it scooter or bike

02-28-2009, 12:47 AM	#21 (permalink)
niranjanvaidya NV Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Pune Posts: 1,133	This thread started as a question and then mutated into Bajaj Bashing thread...this seems like serious OT There are questions that we need to closely ask...not related but still I wonder...why is it that we compare Bajaj with the Japanese Four? Why is it that we compare a company that started motorcycle production with in-house R&D a few years ago (First motorcyle introduced by Bajaj with in house R&D was the Pulsar classic in 2001) with some company that started making motorcycles a year after India gained independence (referring to Honda, est. 24 Sept 1948)? Definition of Legend: Noun 1. a popular story handed down from earlier times which may or may not be true 2. such stories collectively 3. a person whose fame makes him or her seem exceptional: he is a living legend 4. modern stories about a famous person which may or may not be true Maybe, our definition of Legend is a twisted one? Though I have never ridden one; but all those who have said that the Ducati 999R still sounds agricultural at idle and is not the most ergonomic/refined or for that matter comfortable to ride but we still admire and love it; and call it a legend we surely have biased opinions __________________ Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience.

02-28-2009, 11:20 AM	#26 (permalink)
Sandeep_K_Ram Waiting for the "One"... Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bengalooru Posts: 389	There is only one "Legend" in Bajaj's history of making two wheelers. "Chetak" - a scooter. And its a legend because it carried every middle class Indian family for such a long time. Was it two decades or more ? It was not a legend because of reliability or performance or superb mileage. It was a legend because it did the donkey's work and was the ultimate utility vehicle - suitable for all kinds of work. Yes, once upon a time it was considered quite fashionable to take your chetak to office... IMHO, the reasons why people dont warm up to BAL bikes as compared to the jap ones are - Unreliable Crudely built Unfinished feel from the product lack of refinement Spares and Service a major headache. This applies generally to all models. The RACE engine in the 4S champion was just total bollocks. The KB100 was one my fav bikes as a kid - I loved the bike but technically it is said to be one of the most flawed bikes of that time. They actually brought out a RTZ 125cc .. dunno if it was any better. Pulsars - for a while everybody was gungho that the Indian manf had taken a lead into the performance segment. But the lack of refinement, lack of complete-ness , poor spares, unreliability,poor service - all these things have started to make people think twice about even the ubiquitous pulsars. I think the philosophy of BAL is also to be blamed. I think they have flooded the market with just too many models. 100CC,112cc, 125cc, 135cc,150cc,180cc,200cc,220cc I am not having any qualms about 150,180,200,220 - the pulsars. But what about the mess in the 100 - 150cc category. Platina,CT100,Discover 112,125,135,150? and then the XCD 125/135 ? I am sorry if I have confused a couple of the products here - I am really confused as to how many models they have now ! I feel its better to bring out a solid reliable product in each segment and build on it rather than flood the market with cheap replica's of the same model with hardly incremental improvements. I think BAL is repeating the mistake again - they are supposedly launching a 19PS P200 with the 220 fairing and a 180 with the 200 looks. Its like selling flavoured milk in tetra packs rather than a glass bottle. As an end user it doesn't make a decisive difference to your purchase. __________________ Sandeep K Ram blogs at http://sandeepkram.blogspot.com

02-28-2009, 01:12 PM	#29 (permalink)
rpmboy noTHing to Prove !!!! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: LondoN/Delhi/GGN Posts: 751	BAJAJ Battered for a while !!! Bajaj has been with the INDIANs like us for so many days. Its an brand which can be associated with trust with little bit of pleasure. Most of us hav spent their better half yrs of learning on an Bajaj scooter. But it does not mean that they are going to reign the whole market all yrs to come. Pulsar 's came when the market had to be ripened and it had matured a lot. Every bike have some glitches and it have to live with it no issues. May b i BUSA or R1, there is always an critic associated with an bike. So, Bajaj Pulsars were the companies first way of showing off to the masses. Still in India we will not forget fuel economy,price,performance. SO the companies hav to come up with engines which are suitable for INDIA specs. No companyy can take risk of loosing an mass market and this market is much fought for. Many models came and left GF125,GF160, Graptor, Beemer etc aint these bikes meant for perormance and bea the pulsars. Yes , in the purest form. Another fact that I want to share is that , most of us including me, for me Pulsar is the 1st bike , and I hav many many memories associated with the same. Selling my bike will be a really tough situation and I m going to keep it as long as I can. Touring has been the forte for Pulsars some how in Indian respect. Ya, its true that the performance reduces after 500kms of constant touring but we mst also remember that we aint touring on AUTOBAHN,Germany. I think Pulsar has the best geometry when it comes to braking. I hav stopped my bike with only using DISKBRAKE, it almost stopped like an bike fitted with ABS , well tyres were new then. The Progrssive clutch enables the engine braking like no other. So much beefed response, to make u more targetted on the road. Its loosing now due to new comers , Yam has been acting like an shy boy but in party time it had been waltz-ing with the sexiest girl. Sameway now its going ga-ga over the technologies it had perfected in past. All the foreign companies have been bringing there axes on domestic manuacturer. Its gd for us as we will get the best of the lot. And thats where BAJAJ is loosing right now. No matter which SBK I ride in future be it R1, BUSA, FZ600etc there will always be an BAJAJ in my garage for rejuvinating old cherished memories. Right now I hav 150cc Pulsar DTSi but soon an 220 and soon may be if Bajaj extends the brand to Pulsar 600RR !!! It will be very hard to kill brand ,and Bajaj wont kill Pulsar in the land were it made it world known. I love an KARIZMA but see what the HH doing in that , giving the INdians an detuned Honda engine . We hav not developed to that level but that does not mean that for long we can be delivered with detuned engines. I HAVE NO TRUST IN hERO HONDA brand whatso ever. But some of the bikes may be gd on our shores. Pulsar in some parts of the world is competing globally with HONDA,YAMAHA , SUZUKI. Does HH even think abt this?? __________________ "BiKiNg in INDIA is like JOGGING in IRAQ ,something may HIT YOU" --rpmboy "Seniority is NOT how fast u ride ,its in how 'Well' you ride " --rpmboy ''Bajaj-ing Since 2000 AD'' --rpmboy Ride A Bajaj ? make it big. Join BBIG -- A Social Group of xBhp.com . Ownerships going strong :- Bajaj Chetak 1981...clocking 2,00,000kms+ Pulsar 150 DTSi 2004...clocking 75,000kms+

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Bike accessories - Bajaj Avenger / Cruiser / Touring bikes	excalibur72	Universal Threads	22	09-13-2011 03:22 PM
[Photo Feature]: Bajaj Concept bikes developed by Xenophya Design European design firm	dreamz_mak	News	2	01-25-2009 09:25 AM
BAJAJ TO LAUNCH 2 NEW BIKES	worrisomebear	News	116	02-08-2005 07:25 AM

Register Now for FREE!
Are you registered on xBhp yet? If not, do so now and start participating to be able to share photos and experiences with other members. It will also enable to you have a chance to be a part of xBhp contests and roadtrips in the future! Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail: Birthday: Image Verification I agree to forum rules