Learn more about a bike - Page 2 - xBhp.com : The Global Indian Biking Community

samudranb · 06-25-2009, 02:10 PM

I found this on the wikipedia entry for CBR1000RR
--
A longer swingarm acted as a longer lever arm in the rear suspension for superior traction under acceleration and more progressive suspension action. Substantially longer than the corresponding unit on the CBR954RR (585 mm (23 in) compared to 551 mm (21.7 in)) the CBR1000RR's 34 mm (1.3 in) longer swingarm made up 41.6 percent of its total wheelbase. The CBR1000RR's wheelbase also increased, measuring 1405 mm (55.3 in); a 5 mm (0.2 in) increase over the 954.
--
Assuming wikipedia to be accurate, it seems a longer swingarm does have something to do with the traction control and suspension.

If someone KNOWS EXACTLY HOW IT IS SO, please reply. PLEASE DONT GUESS.

Something else i have always wanted to know, how does the suspension relate to braking? I mean, what other functions does the suspension serve, other than cushioning my behinds

?

pranay · 06-25-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akshaye11

Its all messed up guys

please can you all explain it from begining some one is saying a longweelbase ????? and someone is saying small one ???

Quote:

Originally Posted by beruoist

Very useful thread.

But i think..Instead of proving anyone wrong,everyone should try to correct the gyaan,provide some inputs for the stuff which somebody has wrongly interpreted in here.

So the best thing will be to provide the correct information about the basic terms of the bikes,with little bit debate..and a detailed conclusion in the end.

Peace
Beruoist

Thats what I am saying. This is a very very generalistic thread. What do you want to know exactly regarding wheelbase? Maybe this thread should be named, "bike mechanics", and then there would more info flowing.

As per the thread starter's question, things like a degree lesser in front rake, coupled with stiffer forks, will generate more feedback from the front forks, with the bike being easier to handle around the corners.

insanebiker · 06-25-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samudranb

Something else i have always wanted to know, how does the suspension relate to braking? I mean, what other functions does the suspension serve, other than cushioning my behinds

?

Yes, a softer setup will have slightly less effective braking as compared to a stiffer suspension setup. But am not able to think why though

dcs · 06-25-2009, 02:30 PM

I am no Bike Guru and I know not how to Google too.

anyways, as per my less knowledge...the distance between the front axle and the rear axle is the wheelbase.

the Rake angle largely decides how stable the bike would be at high speed cornering. Larger angle as in Cruisers provide good stability in comparison to lesser as in dirt bikes at relatively higher speeds, but eating a large chunk of road at cornering.

Swing arm as rightly said by Samarth is the frame that joins the rear Axle to the main Chassis on a suspension.

suspension is related to braking to a larger extent.
a moving vehicle has some inertia/Kinetic energy and when we apply brake, if the suspension is hard or absent, the force applied by the inertia would toss the bike, however, a softer suspension would allow the vehicle to pump downwards towards the ground whereby improving stability.

now, as I said am not any guru, not a science student and I dont google, so my definition/explanation could mean little or nothing at all to a lot of us, pardon me for being a Non-Techie and discussing things as techie as these.
Peace!

samudranb · 06-25-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcs

...being a Non-Techie and discussing things as techie as these.
Peace!

Thank you non-techie!

pranay · 06-25-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insanebiker

Yes, a softer setup will have slightly less effective braking as compared to a stiffer suspension setup. But am not able to think why though

Forks/Springs being softer mean that the they 'suppress/depress' more. If a bike with such a setup hits corners you will get less 'feedback'. Feedback in the sense the feel of the front and back end on the bike sticking on the road because you will be bouncing around all the time. This will mean lesser control over the corners.

A stiffer spring setup will give you more feedback. Which in turn, will give you a better response during the turns. There are more aspects than just springs which effect bike's handling, but if you take just the springs, then this is basicallty what it is.

Simple eg:-
Take a straw and try to draw a circle in sand. Take a wooden stick and do the same. Which one will draw a better circle?

In terms of road comfort, you would ideally want softer forks/springs (opp of what you would want above). A softer fork/spring would depress easier so in case of a bump or a pothole, you would get less 'feedback' from the road, making you not groan everytime you go over uneven surfaces. A stiffer fork/spring would depress lesser so the vice-versa would happen.

Simple eg:-
Take the same straw and press it over the surface ground and keep going for a hundred meters or so. Take the wooden stick and do the same. After which one would you feel a bit weary on your wrists?

Bikes would like to have an ideal compromise between these two. There are mechanisms which bridge the gap between these two as well nowadays. (The R15 has a varying dampening system, with the monoshock stiffening with increase in load)

beruoist · 06-25-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beruoist

Very useful thread.

But i think..Instead of proving anyone wrong,everyone should try to correct the gyaan,provide some inputs for the stuff which somebody has wrongly interpreted in here.

So the best thing will be to provide the correct information about the basic terms of the bikes,with little bit debate..and a detailed conclusion in the end.

I have one question.

How does an Exhaust adds in the performance.with the various varaints in the Exhaust technology,Exhaust size etc.How does it works.
Also is it like a type of exhaust should belong to a type of bike(superbike,dirt bike..this classification)

Guys please provide your inputs,your expirience.I have already googled all this stuff.
Peace
Beruoist

Any useful answers on my question ??

insanebiker · 06-25-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pranay

Forks/Springs being softer mean that the they 'suppress/depress' more. If a bike with such a setup hits corners you will get less 'feedback'. Feedback in the sense the feel of the front and back end on the bike sticking on the road because you will be bouncing around all the time. This will mean lesser control over the corners.

A stiffer spring setup will give you more feedback. Which in turn, will give you a better response during the turns. There are more aspects than just springs which effect bike's handling, but if you take just the springs, then this is basicallty what it is.

Simple eg:-
Take a straw and try to draw a circle in sand. Take a wooden stick and do the same. Which one will draw a better circle?

In terms of road comfort, you would ideally want softer forks/springs (opp of what you would want above). A softer fork/spring would depress easier so in case of a bump or a pothole, you would get less 'feedback' from the road, making you not groan everytime you go over uneven surfaces. A stiffer fork/spring would depress lesser so the vice-versa would happen.

Simple eg:-
Take the same straw and press it over the surface ground and keep going for a hundred meters or so. Take the wooden stick and do the same. After which one would you feel a bit weary on your wrists?

Bikes would like to have an ideal compromise between these two. There are mechanisms which bridge the gap between these two as well nowadays. (The R15 has a varying dampening system, with the monoshock stiffening with increase in load)

Thanks for the explanation , Pranay!

Old Fox · 06-25-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pranay

Forks/Springs being softer mean that the they 'suppress/depress' more. If a bike with such a setup hits corners you will get less 'feedback'. Feedback in the sense the feel of the front and back end on the bike sticking on the road because you will be bouncing around all the time. This will mean lesser control over the corners.

A stiffer spring setup will give you more feedback. Which in turn, will give you a better response during the turns. There are more aspects than just springs which effect bike's handling, but if you take just the springs, then this is basicallty what it is.

Simple eg:-
Take a straw and try to draw a circle in sand. Take a wooden stick and do the same. Which one will draw a better circle?

In terms of road comfort, you would ideally want softer forks/springs (opp of what you would want above). A softer fork/spring would depress easier so in case of a bump or a pothole, you would get less 'feedback' from the road, making you not groan everytime you go over uneven surfaces. A stiffer fork/spring would depress lesser so the vice-versa would happen.

Simple eg:-
Take the same straw and press it over the surface ground and keep going for a hundred meters or so. Take the wooden stick and do the same. After which one would you feel a bit weary on your wrists?

Bikes would like to have an ideal compromise between these two. There are mechanisms which bridge the gap between these two as well nowadays. (The R15 has a varying dampening system, with the monoshock stiffening with increase in load)

Pranay: 'Softer' or 'stiffer' suspension and its effects on braking and road-holding are two different things. I'll just be skimming on the surface of the topic here.

Braking: Softer springing allows the weight transfer induced on braking to load up the front trye quicker than the tyre can adjust. And this weight transfer also compresses the springs more, taking up suspension travel, altering bike steering geometry towards instability and pulling the rider further and deeper into a 'dive'. All these effects hinder the rider from utilizing the full braking potential of the braking system/tyre combo. So for braking, a stiffer spring set-up is preferable.

Road-holding: This is about how well the suspension keeps the tyre contact patch in contact with the road. Stiffer springs ALLIED with firm damping will keep the wheel pressed harder to the tarmac allowing for a sure-footed ride. 'Feedback' will be there in both the cases but what comes as feedback with softer springs will be sort of vague and will have a pretty high pucker factor

for the rider. The bike will feel like its wallowing all over the turn.

The 'straw and stick' analogy was a bit extreme there

. I guess the straw is for softer springing but it gives the impression that softer springing also means flexible non-rigid forks

that bend at their knees (wherever they are for 'forks) when the rider brakes.

Yes, suspension set-ups are a use-oriented compromise. A commuter or tourer would want a fair percentage of comfort even if there is a slight depletion in road-holding and braking at the extreme limits of the bike's performance. Likewise, a road-racer would want his suspension set-up optimized for road holding and braking, comfort be damned.

The 'varying' damping is what we call 'pre-load' adjustment for suspension. The suspension 'spring' is pre-loaded as if there is already some force pushing it downwards. This makes the spring effectively stiffer. For 'gas-springing' or nitrogen filled shocks, the pre-load is increased by increasing the gas-pressure inside the shocker-damper unit.

dcs · 06-25-2009, 03:31 PM

@ Old Fox,: Couldn't have said it better than you. I was expecting to hear from you here.

06-25-2009, 02:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
samudranb Observer Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 57	I found this on the wikipedia entry for CBR1000RR -- A longer swingarm acted as a longer lever arm in the rear suspension for superior traction under acceleration and more progressive suspension action. Substantially longer than the corresponding unit on the CBR954RR (585 mm (23 in) compared to 551 mm (21.7 in)) the CBR1000RR's 34 mm (1.3 in) longer swingarm made up 41.6 percent of its total wheelbase. The CBR1000RR's wheelbase also increased, measuring 1405 mm (55.3 in); a 5 mm (0.2 in) increase over the 954. -- Assuming wikipedia to be accurate, it seems a longer swingarm does have something to do with the traction control and suspension. If someone KNOWS EXACTLY HOW IT IS SO, please reply. PLEASE DONT GUESS. Something else i have always wanted to know, how does the suspension relate to braking? I mean, what other functions does the suspension serve, other than cushioning my behinds ? __________________ Which of my bike rides is my favorite? The one I’m going to take tomorrow. My photo gallery: http://tinyurl.com/samudranb My blog: http://chaichaichai.wordpress.com

06-25-2009, 02:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
dcs MooD(iri)tater!!!!! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Free-da-Bad earlier, Currently in Saddi Dilli! Posts: 895	I am no Bike Guru and I know not how to Google too. anyways, as per my less knowledge...the distance between the front axle and the rear axle is the wheelbase. the Rake angle largely decides how stable the bike would be at high speed cornering. Larger angle as in Cruisers provide good stability in comparison to lesser as in dirt bikes at relatively higher speeds, but eating a large chunk of road at cornering. Swing arm as rightly said by Samarth is the frame that joins the rear Axle to the main Chassis on a suspension. suspension is related to braking to a larger extent. a moving vehicle has some inertia/Kinetic energy and when we apply brake, if the suspension is hard or absent, the force applied by the inertia would toss the bike, however, a softer suspension would allow the vehicle to pump downwards towards the ground whereby improving stability. now, as I said am not any guru, not a science student and I dont google, so my definition/explanation could mean little or nothing at all to a lot of us, pardon me for being a Non-Techie and discussing things as techie as these. Peace! __________________ Its not about the BHP or the CC, its about one common religion called Biking!!! Save the Tigers! Only 1411 (excluding ME) are left! This is my entry in the blogging world!!

06-25-2009, 03:31 PM	#20 (permalink)
dcs MooD(iri)tater!!!!! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Free-da-Bad earlier, Currently in Saddi Dilli! Posts: 895	@ Old Fox,: Couldn't have said it better than you. I was expecting to hear from you here. __________________ Its not about the BHP or the CC, its about one common religion called Biking!!! Save the Tigers! Only 1411 (excluding ME) are left! This is my entry in the blogging world!!

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