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antz.bin

Duke 200?? CBR 250?

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by , 11-03-2012 at 05:26 PM (7676 Views)
Quote Originally Posted by Above_All View Post
Don't want to post offtopic thing , but really got confused , so posting it . Sorry mods .
If possible please atleast post the terms & condition that ** suggesting , as most of adds post it in tiny fonts .
Also what is defination for the Real Bikes is used ?
Why those 2 bikes left out of the real word ? Is that because those are 2 are capable to perform in the 3 areas of the real bikes ? But i think those 3 real bike would also perform in others area too .

Really confused
Since you are so very very confused for the last 90 days and still want me to *rub it in*. I will well and truly clarify on your OT question why both ZMR and CBR150R are NOT *real* options for anyone with a 1-2 lac budget even though they fall in that budget range. It is really funny that you were up in arms for ZMR and not for CBR150R or the REs which also fall in the same price range.

I am not scared of anyone to post it in tiny font or invisible colors or mince words or in any other cryptic code especially when I am stating facts.

Coming to the OT in question:
On August 4th 2012, I had left for my Leh Trip so it *could* be possible that I didn't find time to answer OT questions like the one I am answering right now. (Answering only AFTER repeated requests in the last 90 days by Mr. Above All)

At the time of writing the post, the following were approx OTR prices (in Pune) of the bikes in question (in increasing order).
ZMR : 1.21lac
R15v2 : 1.29lac
Duke : 1.34lac
CBR150R : 1.38lac
CBR250R STD : 1.7lac

I am not comparing the bikes w.r.t. 1. Comfort, 2. Looks and 3. Reliability since all three are unmeasurable/subjective. If you know a metric unit to measure these, I would be glad to reopen this thread.

Starting off, lets answer the following motorcycle performance related questions questions factually (using spec sheets provided on respective websites).

Q1: Which of the above do not have Monoshock rear suspension?
A: ZMR
Q2: Which bikes cheaper than ZMR bike have Monoshock?
A: Discover 125ST, FZ-16, FZ-S, Fazer, Unicorn, Dazzler, 200NS.
Q3: Which of the listed bikes doesn't have Liquid cooling?
A: ZMR
Q4: Which bikes cheaper than ZMR have Liquid Cooling?
A: 200NS
Q5: Which of the listed bikes doesn't have 4-valve per cylinder engine head?
A: ZMR
Q6: Which bikes cheaper than ZMR have 4-valve per cylinder?
A: Discover 125ST, Pulsar 135LS, Pulsar 200NS
Q7: Which among the listed bikes has the thinnest rear tyre?
A: ZMR
Q8: Which bikes cheaper than ZMR have a fatter rear tyre coming from factory?
A: Pulsar 180, FZ-16, FZ-S, Fazer, Apache RTR 180, Pulsar 220, Pulsar 200NS, Avenger 220
Q9: Which of the above bikes has the lowest power:weight ratio?
A: ZMR
Q10: Which bikes cheaper than ZMR have better power:weight ratios?
A: Karizma R, Pulsar 180, Apache 180, Pulsar 220, Pulsar 200NS, Avenger 220
Q11: List the kind of chassis/frame employed by each of the listed bikes. Which of them is the least modern one for road-bikes?
A: ZMR : Diamond Type
R15 : Perimeter frame AKA Deltabox in Yamaha Lingo
CBR 150R : Diamond Type
CBR 250R : Twin Spar Type
Duke : Trellis Frame (Also used on the latest Ducatis)
Diamond Type frame is the least modern. Provides lesser rigidity than Perimeter/Trellis/Twin Spar frames.
Q12: Which of the listed bikes has engine kill and pass light switches missing?
A: CBR150R
Q13: Which is the cheapest bike to offer either one of those 2 switches?
A: Bajaj Discover 100 4G, 43k Ex Showroom Delhi (Pass light switch only), TVS Sport 110cc, 44k Ex Showroom Delhi (Engine Kill switch only). At the time of query, Bajaj Boxer BM150 was still available for sale in India. It had both these switches and was sold at ~42k Ex Showroom Delhi.
Q14: Which of the listed bikes doesn't offer 55w Headlamps out of factory?
A: ZMR, R15
Q15: Which bikes cheaper than ZMR and R15 offer 55W headlamps?
A: Avenger 220, Pulsar 220, Pulsar 200NS

PM me if you need me to *rub it in* even more. I will gladly keep on going on and on and on. None of the above is my own opinion. You can verify these facts with whatever sources you want, just ensure that the sources are genuine (eg. official websites).

Dont PM me or Samarth or SunilG if you need me to explain the meaning of *rub it in*. Read this for your answer.

There is one *real* advantage it does offer over all the other bikes priced lower than ZMR. That is Fuel Injection. But this doesn't mean that ZMR is the cheapest bike with Fuel Injection (Hero Glamour Fi and Honda Stunner Fi are cheaper). Also, just being Fuel Injected doesn't suddenly make it superior to bikes which offer better power / tyres / handling / chassis / suspension / braking / lighting / engine tech and even FE in some cases.

You don't go to Khardung La / Chang La / Tanglang La / Marsimek La everyday to reap benefits of the Closed loop FI system (for which you paid ~30k extra OR 25% of the cost of the bike). If you do go there once every 4 days (i.e. 25% of the days the bike is used), this should be an important consideration. But even if you do, Carb'd bikes with a 30 rupee 1-time mod job work just fine.

Coming to CBR150R, it is a disgrace on the part of Honda considering they have missed on basic Standard-on-100cc equipment and still have the audacity to sell it at a price more than the brilliant Yamaha R15 which does most things expected of a bike, better or at-par with CBR150R. Still fail to see a compelling-to-an-enthusiast reason to justify the extra 9k over an R15. But then this one is in my humble opinion. Maybe I miss some details which make the CBR150R more desirable to people.

The point of this entire exercise was to show the readers that the fact that You bought the bike that You LOVE doesn't suddenly make it the best bike for everyone. Especially not now in 2012.

P.S.: @Others: I am adding this post to my xbhp blog. If you have any disagreements, feel free to comment there. This thread remains locked.
sayank10 likes this.

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Updated 11-05-2012 at 03:49 AM by antz.bin

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  1. Above_All's Avatar
    Since so many time *rub it in* posted so checked that link , the very first explationation is
    if someone rubs it in, they keep talking about something that makes you feel embarrassed
    If it is applying to this post then who is that someone rubbed it ? Is there any other meaning of rubbing ?

    Yes i keep taking follow up of why the thread is locked with sunilg & samarath . And asked to unlock the thread so i can learn how bikes are compared as REAL & FAKE , by asking some questions , clearing doubts & getting confusion solved
    But now great thing said by you not to pm them .

    Coming to this great great explationation in locked thread so no one can question it

    So far i understand that "
    1)Monoshock ,
    2)Cheaper ,
    3)Liquid Cooling ,
    4)No of valves ,
    5)Tyre size ,
    6)Power to weight ratio ,
    7)Frame type ,
    8)Switches
    9)Headlamp wattage .
    Are the ** factors decides which bike is REAL & which one is FAKE .

    As the link for rub in it is posted number of times kindly post atleast one time the link for your Genuine Source of these factors .

    BTW great to know FI has no advantage than so called your points by genius source .
    If i remember correctly some of bikes even don't pass all your tests but still no mention of them & some are without passing those great great test's are in defination of REAL .
    So one can easily understand how far you got frustrated with ZMR
    And how other peoples bikes are DISRESPECTED by MODERATOR .

    I hope your are aware how much LC coolant leackaging problems are there , my Bro's bike is also one of example .

    Yes i own a ZMR , i am proud of it , but what is this ?
    It is really funny that you were up in arms for ZMR and not for CBR150R or the REs which also fall in the same price range.
    I have asked why both 2 bikes are called as not REAL read my unedited & untill now undeleted reply http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/what-bik...tml#post850673
    Don't try to put your own words in my mouth .

    I asked for those 2 only cause purposefully you posted
    (No offends to CBR150R / ZMR, the only other bikes to fall in that budget range)
    No need to drag RE's cause they haven't been there anywhere in your so called REAL vs FAKE Comparison .

    I am not scared of anyone to post it in tiny font or invisible colors or mince words or in any other cryptic code especially when I am stating facts.
    Neither me & why should be ? I haven't that kind of nature to act as genius & called some bike as REAL & some as FAKE . Which means the designer or the manufacturer have very poor knowledge than the one who is giving them names as REAL & FAKE .

    Don't want to reply here , but as VERY GOOD use of power is done by posting in locked thread ( so no one can raise any question about this much great knowledge sharing ) & linked this entry so posting here .

    If not scared then why deleting posts which showing face behind mask & lock the threads ?

    Anyway i am out from here cause as i found its just be something burning or may be someone & i don't want to make any personal issues specially with one who has power to edit / delete your post so as to show world how good he is .
  2. antz.bin's Avatar
    @Mr. Above All
    Firstly, some friendly advices.

    1. Learn to read.
    2. Learn to read properly.
    3. Learn to read and comprehend before you post bulls#it.
    4. Learn to use Google. Google is the key to all Geniuses.
    5. Learn to respect the fact that some people might not like your things due to what it does or doesn't offer.
    6. Pointing out weaknesses in a product is not "Disrespecting".

    Secondly:
    The reason I did put it up on the blog was so that it could be open to a NON OT discussion. Feel free to refute my points. What you got was what you asked for. If you don't have anything you can refute my 15 questions with, kindly Shut Up.
  3. Above_All's Avatar
    @ Mr. Bhatia

    Thank you for your Friendly ( ? ) Advice ,
    you seems to be or thinking yourself so much intellegent to give advice which you yourself not following .

    1) Learn to read .
    => If you have done it then you might understood my reply . And posted this your reply by unlocking the origional thread . Instead of hiding here .

    2) Learn to read properly .
    => If you have done it then might be you haven't posted this useless reply . And unlocked the origional thread & posted the link to your Genuine / official source for those your self proclaimed points defining REAL & FAKE bike

    3) Learn to read and comprehend before you post bulls#it.
    => Who have done it ? Isn't it you by posting your own self proclaimed points defining REAL & FAKE Bikes .

    4) Learn to use Google. Google is the key to all Geniuses.
    => In first post you said
    just ensure that the sources are genuine (eg. official websites).
    & now the official website for your own points of measures for REAL & FAKE is google .

    5) Learn to respect the fact that some people might not like your things due to what it does or doesn't offer.
    => Yes that's why they are ( or i say he is ? ) jealous & calling FAKE . And you asking to respect their ( or i again call his ) jealousy .

    6) Pointing out weaknesses in a product is not "Disrespecting".
    => So is calling FAKE is way of pointing weakness & not disrespecting ?

    Secondly: Isn't it fearing that all would know your real face so locking thread & posting in own blog entry where chances are only the posts praising you will be approved mostly .
    What you said is what i posted fell free to point out mistake rather than using the powers & deleting posts & hiding your true face .

    I again saying i don't want to make it personal , i am just showing how the Biking Brotherhood is really . Just praise one manufacture & bash others .
    aargee likes this.
  4. antz.bin's Avatar
    I really don't need to approve this dirt of yours on my blog. But since I want people to know till how much lengths a fanboy can go to defend what he owns even without knowing 1 half decent point in favour of your argument.

    18 hours after my post, you had the time to write 2 absolutely senseless posts but no time to point out even one shortcoming in the questions raised.

    The reasons for the thread being locked over 3 months back were beyond your understanding so please stop stressing your brain over it. As for your biking brotherhood question, I would request which particular one manufacturer I or that fellow jzb4 (who prompted you to bring out this dead topic) are biased towards. Because we all know now what a hypocrite you are in terms of showing respect towards manufacturers other than Hero (Honda/Moto).

    I understand that you have been temporarily banned so I will wait for your reply once you are back.
  5. Above_All's Avatar
    Will like to answer it, accept this invitation & post the above post as it is on Real vs Fake leads to Truth vs Ego . Highlight The Truth
  6. antz.bin's Avatar
    10 days to think about what you have done and all you come up with is this?

    Grow up Goldy. Stop quoting people out of context.

    If you want to post anything on your blog its your choice. But don't expect me to join in this little game of yours. I have better things to do. Sayonara.
  7. AkshatKmr's Avatar
    Hi antz.bin,
    I read in Bike India magazine (June'12 Issue comparing CBR150R and YZF-R15 v2.0) that both these bikes are almost comparable.

    Engine:
    In outright acceleration, CBR150R comes ahead while in gear roll-on acceleration , R15 comes on top.)
    But Honda engine was rated better because of its ultimate refinement.

    Handling:
    Almost comparable but Honda comes out on top in attacking the corners flat-out.

    Build Quality:
    Yamaha is better.

    Pillion AND RIDER comfort
    Honda is better.

    Looks:
    Subjective and depends on person to person, but R15 looks better in my opinion.

    Verdict:
    Yamaha is better for those who want to do hardcore weekend rides towards twisties.
    Honda is a overall package with good top-end performance, comfortable ride.

    Note: The above views are from the Magazine.

    I want to ask why this bike (Honda CBR150R) was not considered in the post (1-2 lac bracket) as a good option (not going in real vs fake debate)
    I don't think that just the lack of pass switch and engine kill switch are enough reasons not to consider this bike as a viable option for potential buyers.
  8. antz.bin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by AkshatKmr
    I want to ask why this bike (Honda CBR150R) was not considered in the post (1-2 lac bracket) as a good option (not going in real vs fake debate)
    I don't think that just the lack of pass switch and engine kill switch are enough reasons not to consider this bike as a viable option for potential buyers.
    The reason was clearly mentioned in the thread itself where this post is quoted from.

    The CBR150R is definitely a viable option for someone with a 1.4 lac budget. That way, the CBR150R doesn't have to compete against its own elder sibling the CBR250R.

    When you up your budget to 2 lac, the game changes significantly. No matter what the magazines say, the CBR150R is not a match for the R15 on a racetrack. R15 with its more modern frame and better quality tyres manages to pip it ever so slightly. Its really not about the missing equipment here. Its about the fact that someone who wants a bike for the track may not be willing to compromise on the most important bit.

    That leaves it to compete with Duke in the city and we all know that no other bike currently sold in India can offer you more fun per rupee south of 2 lacs.

    Coming to CBR250R, on the highways, the CBR250R offers better torque, better top/cruising speeds and a more comfortable ride regardless of what the road condition may be. And if you consider the CBR250R ABS(which is also sold for just about 2 lac), the ABS version obviously has superior braking.

    Till this point, you tell me, with 2 lac in hand, what would you buy? Depending upon requirement, I certainly wouldn't look beyond the 3 class leaders (R15, CBR250R and Duke).

    But if you lower the budget to say 1.5 lac (and not a penny more), the CBR250R goes out of contention and then, what the CBR150R offers is a package similar to what the R15 v1 offered i.e., good handling, good highway speeds, a full fairing for excellent aerodynamics and a more comfy pillion seat and a less extreme riding position compared to R15v2. This is a bike which can be used on the highways and with a pillion, better than both Duke AND R15v2. There you have it, a class leader!!

    My point since the beginning was, the CBR150R may be a very competent bike in its own right for the price it is offered at, but with a 2 lac budget, it is not *class leading* in any of the attributes it offers. Thats exactly what I stand by even now.

    Of course, this analysis will soon be changing very very fast with the imminent introduction of the higher capacity motorcycles from Bajaj / Honda / KTM so enjoy the debate till its still valid .
  9. ShyamSasindran's Avatar
    Thanks for your comparison. I'm not a Hardcore biker with lot of Technical knowledge. I was in the same dilemma on "which one to choose". I agree with some of your comments in another thread this was extract my questions. I wanted a fun bike I'm no racer but since I owned RX before I like Yamaha. But now I decided to go with R15 v2.

    Thanks again,
    Shyam