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Thread: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

  1. #31
    psr
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    We will now see how the profile of the wheel is very important,not just for smooth travel, but Most Importantly, to change Tracks Through Track /Line switches. It is the inner Flanges of the wheel that decides which track the train should take...




    The train on the above track will steer to the right,and the arrow indication on the Mechanical switch/track changer indicates the same....
    Here is an animation to show how track switch changes the active track..The Red colored path is what the train will take....
    Last edited by psr; 08-13-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saerius View Post
    I have a question, so the US mallets have simple expansion cylinders, woudnt that give them benefit over the compound expansion cylinder locomotives when they both breakdown? if one set of US Mallet cyl units fail, then the locomotive can chug back to the depot on the other pair, but what happens when the high pressure expansion units fail in the compound cyl setup. I feel that the answer to my question might be hidden in the link that you gave me, but still what do you say?

    Ok now about rails, the Ballast is there to absorb the loads of the train in motion , to distribute it to the ground and in turn also give a softer uhm ride (for lack of words) ? Or does it do no such work of softening the load on the rail ,by allowing it to flex within elastic limits? If yes then how is rail life affected in ballast less full concrete sleepers?

    Glued joints or alumino thermic welded joints are still given expansion joints at certain distances too, right?
    The compound cylinder does have a problem that if the Master cylinder fails and gets stuck,then the slave will not get steam at all. The simple configuration of each cylinder getting their feed of steam independently is superior in this respect..
    The compound type was made to use up all of the energy in the steam and hence is energy efficient.
    The Ballast is there to take the shock from the rails being hammered by the wagon wheels..Depending on the traffic,the ballast made of hard gravel will be replaced periodically...in fact when I saw the replaced gravel I was shocked to see that they had been broken and most had rounded edges....the effect of continuous pounding by wagon wheels.The porous nature of the Gravel also helps in keeping liquids away from track..The concrete layout for high speed train is all about stability at higher stress.
    All tracks have an expansion rail gap depending on the Steel,and the temperature range of the region.
    The softness of ride is entirely dependent on the wagon/coach suspension set up. High speed passenger trains have different suspension configuration....
    Latest coaches come with Coiled springs and Disc brakes ..









    The TGV which is one of the successfully running high speed train capable of 500 Kmph (Max speed achieved 574 Kmph)has it's coach pneumatic suspension at the ends of the coach for stability and ride quality.It normally runs at 320 Kmph.
    Last edited by psr; 06-03-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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  3. #33
    Honda DIO HET 2014 Aneesh@4GHz's Avatar
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    Amazing sir. Will be following this thread from now.

  4. #34
    psr
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    To Understand mallet Articulation check this video...
    Especially from 2:40 to 3:40 and notice how the front end is swaying...



    A walk around Big Boy...

    Last edited by psr; 06-03-2012 at 04:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by psr View Post
    We will have a brief look at the Rails
    ..........
    The High speed Matt support type used in Japan..concrete sleepers
    Wooden types are also being phased out in India.
    But how will the rails influence the max speed at which locomotives can run, I am asking this because I had a discussion with a railway official and he had mentioned that "Most of the locomotives in India are capable of doing 100+ but they are limited by the rails."
    Last edited by kantu; 06-03-2012 at 06:34 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantu View Post
    Wooden types are also being phased out in India.
    But how will the rails influence the max speed at which locomotives can run, I am asking this because I had a discussion with a railway official and he had mentioned that "Most of the locomotives in India are capable of doing 100+ but they are limited by the rails."
    If the rails are flexible, if the sleepers don't hold the rails tightly, if the ballast packing is loose, if the ground support under ballast is soft.....any one ,or a combination of these will result in a rail which will bounce up and down like a spring, every time a wheel passes over any section..Needless to say the wheel will also start bouncing and derailment will occur....which is why Higher the speed ,..firmer the rail,and it's anchoring.
    Here is a video of bad track,and it's effect on the Loco and wagons.....

    another bad track just managing to hold the train in place...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MUCU2GhG8zE=rela ted


    The broad gauge Express trains in India ,do 100+, and the superfast ones do 120+. The Rajdhanis do more than that.
    The goods train average 60~70 Kmph now.

    The next time you travel in a passenger train, look at the back of each coach,(where each coach is connected to the other)... there will be words printed " Fit to Run at 100 Kph"...or " Fit to Run at 120 Kph."
    Last edited by psr; 06-05-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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  7. #37
    Rusted kantu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psr View Post
    Here is a video of bad track,and it's effect on the Loco and wagons.....
    The broad gauge Express trains in India ,do 100+, and the superfast ones do 120+.
    But we dont have this type of bad tracks, I was referring to the concrete types. Got the point, but still as express and super fast(Shatabdi,Rajdhani etc) all run on same tracks, express trains are fit to run @100+ but still avg is maintained @70 in express.

  8. #38
    psr
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantu View Post
    But we dont have this type of bad tracks, I was referring to the concrete types. Got the point, but still as express and super fast(Shatabdi,Rajdhani etc) all run on same tracks, express trains are fit to run @100+ but still avg is maintained @70 in express.
    To The best of my knowledge we don't have such bad tracks...
    The reason some trains run at 80+ some at 100+ and some at 120+ are in the way the railways adjust the timing for different meeting points of different Trains...Since not everywhere we have Double lines, both up and down trains may have to travel on single track. So one will be stopped in a siding or station,and the other train allowed to proceed...instead if the arrival time of the trains are adjusted by running one at 120+ and the other at 80 then there will be no waiting at any siding ...and if ,parked in a siding or station, the waiting time will also be very less.
    Apart from that ,due to request from many people in a area and political arrangements, some trains have to cater to stopping at some specific stations, and have to start late and arrive slightly late in morning to enable passengers to attend to work straight away...
    But one of the most important thing is how stable is the Passenger Coach ? . If the coach is old ,or in need of change of some parts, then they cannot reliably run at higher speeds..they will run as passenger trains running at 60 Kmph..those that are recently made and are in good condition will run in Rajdhani, superfast etc.,....
    So speed at which a train is run is dependent on the train itself,on convenience it is supposed to provide and other influences..
    When you travel next time in train, do look up at what speed the coach is certified to run...for your info..
    Last edited by psr; 06-05-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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  9. #39
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    Grading system used in Indian Railways:

    If an engine has WDP4 written in front of it, it means:

    Wide Guage,
    Diesel powered,
    Passenger train's engine, (Yes, freight and passenger trains have different engines for reasons unknown)
    and 4 means 4000 horsepower.

    The fastest Indian engine is (last time I checked) the WAP7. 7000 horsepower, and it touched some 178 kmph something, while testing on an Indian railway track.


    --
    One Query: Guys, once I saw a Electric Locomotive in New Delhi (some Industrial area, don't remember) and it was a Passenger train. It was moving at around 20 kmph or so...

    Then I noticed something strange.. Both of its Pantographs were down. Then, after some time, the rear pantograph rose up and touched the overhead wire with a spark.

    So, my question is: Obviously, these Electric Engines have batteries in them, which can tow them for low speeds, and when I googled it, things pointed towards a 1500 volt battery inside.

    So, how long can a fully charged Indian electric engine run solely on battery power, and how much load can it handle? Any horsepower specs?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samarth 619 View Post
    Grading system used in Indian Railways:
    If an engine has WDP4 written in front of it, it means:
    Wide Guage,Diesel powered,Passenger train's engine, (Yes, freight and passenger trains have different engines for reasons unknown)and 4 means 4000 horsepower.
    The fastest Indian engine is (last time I checked) the WAP7. 7000 horsepower, and it touched some 178 kmph something, while testing on an Indian railway track.
    One Query: Guys, once I saw a Electric Locomotive in New Delhi (some Industrial area, don't remember) and it was a Passenger train. It was moving at around 20 kmph or so...
    Then I noticed something strange.. Both of its Pantographs were down. Then, after some time, the rear pantograph rose up and touched the overhead wire with a spark.
    So, my question is: Obviously, these Electric Engines have batteries in them, which can tow them for low speeds, and when I googled it, things pointed towards a 1500 volt battery inside.
    So, how long can a fully charged Indian electric engine run solely on battery power, and how much load can it handle? Any horsepower specs?
    The WDP-4 is Broad Gauge GM EMD 4,000 Hp two stroke diesel electric meant for Passenger traffic and higher(160Kmph) speed. It's equivalent is the WDG meant for goods with a speed limit of 100+. The Engines in both WDP and WDG are the same.The gearing between the Drive Motor and the wheel is different due to the fact that Goods hauling need higher tractive effort .
    The WAP-7 started as a 6,100 hp upgraded to 6,350 Hp engine,and were failure in stop and go traffic and would require lot of time to pickup speed..The WAP-4 and 5 used to perform better with 5,350 HP. This was found to be due to the tractive effort being low,and was later corrected to make WAP-7 ideal in both non- stop and stop and go traffic.the WAP-7 of 7,000 HP with IGBT technology had finished trial run..
    Grading Locomotive and identifying them from numbers is possible only for a few Locos,since RDSO has it's own system of rating and Id of Locos.
    Regarding the Electric Locomotive in motion and raising it's Pentagraph..you haven't mentioned its Model ..like WAM or WAP 1 ,4 ,5 etc...Normally if there is a break in the overhead line like for instance in a wide level crossing the Electric Loco may accelerate ,before the break ,and with the momentum pass through the gap with no supply ..alternatively if there is a push-pull arrangement of a loco pulling from the front assisted by a loco pushing from behind, then also one of the loco will be in off condition under normal running,without requirement for acceleration.
    But the Loco ID is important to know more and understand the situation you had mentioned.
    Last edited by psr; 06-12-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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