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Thread: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

  1. #401
    psr
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    Integral Coach Factory Chennai had developed a 100% indigenous Stainless Steel Coach same as the LHB in all aspect. This is an initiative by ICF Make In India, and hope to manufacture 1,600 Coaches per year. The AC coaches due to it's higher Axle load will have wheels from Alstom while the normal coaches will be of 100% Indian parts . The first set of coaches have to undergo real time testing and Certification by the Railway Safety Board, after which the production will be in full swing. It should be noted that the Coach Factory at Kapurthala is still doing assembling only, and this effort by ICF is a Feather in it's cap confirming it's capability in development of Material, dies and Execution ...
    Here is a video of the First batch of LHB from ICF..


    Last edited by psr; 10-05-2017 at 10:30 AM.
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  2. #402
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    The First of 800+ Electric Locos from Alstom had been delivered and undergoing trials . Designated WAG-12, this 12,000 HP engine is mainly for Freight trains of upto 6,000 Tons and a cruising speed of 100 Kmph. It's top speed is indicated as 120 Kmph .
    The Loco has 8 Driven wheels ie., powered wheels. Alstom had agreed for a Technology transfer. Currently Alstom had also set up a plant in Soviet Union for the Loco manufacturing.
    Here is a Video of the Loco during casual test run in Russia




    Here is a spec Video.

    Last edited by psr; 10-05-2017 at 12:52 PM.
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  3. #403
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    Modern Coach washing facilities are being tried and used in Indian Railways , to give uniform coach outer cleanliness .
    Here are two videos of the same.



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  4. #404
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    A shocking announcement had been made by the Railway Ministry that the Diesel Electric Locos will be taken off service and replaced by Electric Locos in the next 5 years to come. The Ministry claims that a saving of 11,500 crores per year can be made through this...I wonder how the generating and distribution cost had not been taken into account.It was already proven that if the cost of generation of power,and distribution, is taken into consideration, the Electric Locomotive is expensive to run and maintain. compared to the Diesel Electric...further if there were to be Power failures in sections, then the trains will be stranded , and may even lead to collision accidents. The Electrical Power Failure and Blackout in North India few years back just showed how this can happen..It was the Diesel Locos which brought the trains home , and enabled continuance of Train service thereafter without a hitch....

    Hope someone with knowledge and conviction makes the Ministry aware of the set back in going full Electric in traction in India,due to the dicey generation and distribution prevalent throughout the country ..
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  5. #405
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    JD rails , an Australian company has come up with a Ballast less Rail laying technique and material, which has many good points and increases track safety .
    Here is a Video to better explain the system...

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  6. #406
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    Happened to travel from Chennai to Balharsha by GT Express and was a bit disappointed to find a WAP-4 Loco instead of a Diesel Loco ( what I wished to see)..The running time for the 880 Kms was roughly 14 hrs...When I looked up average it was a abysmal 62 Kmph .What was shocking was the top speed limit indicated as 110 Kmph on the train schedule....On return I took the Prestigious Tamilnadu Express again hoping to see a Diesel Loco, and again disappointed to see a WAP-4 Loco..But Tamilnadu Express has only Two stops before reaching Chennai ,so was hopeful of faster running and shorter journey time...alas leaving at 5.15 PM the train reached Chennai at 7.15 AM the next day..almost 14 hrs...and again the overall average was indicated as 65 Kmph , and a top speed limit of 110 kmph..
    While RDSO and IR are testing faster running Locos and Coaches,and strengthening the rails to cope with the speeds, the overall running of the Trains had been at a Lower speed with higher running time..
    So what exactly is happening with IR...are they afraid to run trains even at the previous speeds of 120 Kmph because they are not sure of the tracks, or coaches, or maintenance.. ? and all this at a time when a Bullet Train is being planned for regular use..
    Either the IR management is going downhill on resources, planning, and confidence level, or we are taking a planned step back wards...both of which is not good..
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  7. #407
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    Quote Originally Posted by psr View Post
    JD rails , an Australian company has come up with a Ballast less Rail laying technique and material, which has many good points and increases track safety .
    Here is a Video to better explain the system...

    Very interesting system sir...Wonder if anyone has actually adopted this or this is still in the concept stage.

    ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

    Quote Originally Posted by psr View Post
    Happened to travel from Chennai to Balharsha by GT Express and was a bit disappointed to find a WAP-4 Loco instead of a Diesel Loco ( what I wished to see)..The running time for the 880 Kms was roughly 14 hrs...When I looked up average it was a abysmal 62 Kmph .What was shocking was the top speed limit indicated as 110 Kmph on the train schedule....On return I took the Prestigious Tamilnadu Express again hoping to see a Diesel Loco, and again disappointed to see a WAP-4 Loco..But Tamilnadu Express has only Two stops before reaching Chennai ,so was hopeful of faster running and shorter journey time...alas leaving at 5.15 PM the train reached Chennai at 7.15 AM the next day..almost 14 hrs...and again the overall average was indicated as 65 Kmph , and a top speed limit of 110 kmph..
    While RDSO and IR are testing faster running Locos and Coaches,and strengthening the rails to cope with the speeds, the overall running of the Trains had been at a Lower speed with higher running time..
    So what exactly is happening with IR...are they afraid to run trains even at the previous speeds of 120 Kmph because they are not sure of the tracks, or coaches, or maintenance.. ? and all this at a time when a Bullet Train is being planned for regular use..
    Either the IR management is going downhill on resources, planning, and confidence level, or we are taking a planned step back wards...both of which is not good..
    Probably a planned step back as the new govt. would want to present a clean track record at the end of their tenure.
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  8. #408
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunilg View Post
    Very interesting system sir...Wonder if anyone has actually adopted this or this is still in the concept stage.



    Probably a planned step back as the new govt. would want to present a clean track record at the end of their tenure.
    The JD Rail Solution is an Australia based company , and as per them the " Smart Track " concept of rails was developed for the Australian Bullet Train . They claim to be in business of Rail innovation for the past 90 yrs, and going by the Service Network and staff numbers, seem to be a legit company with accomplishment.. They have published the design of various types of track depending on the terrain and usage and hold patent of them...As for implementation the concept and execution is new and in infant stage in Australia...

    Regarding the slowing down of the Trains, a little exploration of travel times of trains through various sector shows that the fastest ie., 110 kmph is allowed mostly in the Southern area..if they are aware of poor maintenance in the Northern sector , then why can't they correct it...?
    Secondly Traveling back from Balharsha in Tamilnadu Super Fast exp.,( what a joke )my family was given berths of 2 in one AC compartment ,2 more in an adjoining one, and 2 more in another..While traveling I found most of the train was empty , and all of us could have been given our berths in same compartment...Clearly there is something seriously wrong happening.Tamilnadu express used to do Delhi to Chennai in approximately 24 hrs...now it is 33 hrs...and GT takes 35 hrs... Tamilnadu Express has 11 stops along the way while GT has 41 stops...so If you see the punctuality, the trains are always on time...what a joke this is turning out to be..

    I now sincerely hope Bullet train does not come to India, because, we suddenly seem incapable of running trains safely...may be on time since timings have been stretched and Super Fast Express runs like old passenger trains...
    Last edited by psr; 04-11-2018 at 10:36 AM.
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  9. #409
    Rusted Iam_Hoodi_CBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    Quote Originally Posted by psr View Post
    Happened to travel from Chennai to Balharsha by GT Express and was a bit disappointed to find a WAP-4 Loco instead of a Diesel Loco ( what I wished to see)..The running time for the 880 Kms was roughly 14 hrs...When I looked up average it was a abysmal 62 Kmph .What was shocking was the top speed limit indicated as 110 Kmph on the train schedule....On return I took the Prestigious Tamilnadu Express again hoping to see a Diesel Loco, and again disappointed to see a WAP-4 Loco..But Tamilnadu Express has only Two stops before reaching Chennai ,so was hopeful of faster running and shorter journey time...alas leaving at 5.15 PM the train reached Chennai at 7.15 AM the next day..almost 14 hrs...and again the overall average was indicated as 65 Kmph , and a top speed limit of 110 kmph..
    While RDSO and IR are testing faster running Locos and Coaches,and strengthening the rails to cope with the speeds, the overall running of the Trains had been at a Lower speed with higher running time..
    So what exactly is happening with IR...are they afraid to run trains even at the previous speeds of 120 Kmph because they are not sure of the tracks, or coaches, or maintenance.. ? and all this at a time when a Bullet Train is being planned for regular use..
    Either the IR management is going downhill on resources, planning, and confidence level, or we are taking a planned step back wards...both of which is not good..

    Hello PSR Sir,

    Your calculation of average speed is including any station stops and signal stops, which I believe will always be the same 65 Kmph for that train because most of the trains are sticking to their schedule right???

    I have observed an intelligent schedule that is being followed by IR for the express train to follow their punctuality, for example look at the image below.
    in onward journey, the 8 kms(from stop 17-18) is scheduled to be covered in 70 mins, where as in return journey the same 8 kms(from stop 1-2) is covered in 12 mins

    Name:  Train Timings.jpg
Views: 23
Size:  19.3 KB

    So i believe they are setting them self a target that they will achieve easily, than to push their self and provide a better/faster service.

    And one more question from my end, the same above mentioned train is being pulled by 2 Diesel Loco(forgive me for not observing what type of loco it is), both of which are running and pulling ~20 coaches. when i inquired the same to one of the Railway official, he said that 2 loco's are used to pull this lengthier train at normal speed. is it really necessary to use this?

    I believe that the friction between the rail and track is very low(compared to other form of transport), so once the train is in move not much of power is required to maintain the speed? Am i wrong.

    Ram
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  10. #410
    psr
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    Default Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iam_Hoodi_CBR View Post
    Hello PSR Sir,

    Your calculation of average speed is including any station stops and signal stops, which I believe will always be the same 65 Kmph for that train because most of the trains are sticking to their schedule right???

    I have observed an intelligent schedule that is being followed by IR for the express train to follow their punctuality, for example look at the image below.
    in onward journey, the 8 kms(from stop 17-18) is scheduled to be covered in 70 mins, where as in return journey the same 8 kms(from stop 1-2) is covered in 12 mins


    So i believe they are setting them self a target that they will achieve easily, than to push their self and provide a better/faster service.

    And one more question from my end, the same above mentioned train is being pulled by 2 Diesel Loco(forgive me for not observing what type of loco it is), both of which are running and pulling ~20 coaches. when i inquired the same to one of the Railway official, he said that 2 loco's are used to pull this lengthier train at normal speed. is it really necessary to use this?

    I believe that the friction between the rail and track is very low(compared to other form of transport), so once the train is in move not much of power is required to maintain the speed? Am i wrong.

    Ram
    The Average speed is calculated from starting station to destination in Kms and time taken to reach from one end to the other. While this average was less time and higher average speed before, now it is more time and less speed...Many improvements to track and signalling have taken place , which helps in better handling of traffic and higher loads are possible due to heavier load carrying capacity of Rails.
    IR in North is mostly driven by WAP Electric Locos citing better efficiency and lower running costs...while in actual fact if power generation for the Loco is also taken into consideration, then it is not viable...then there is the fact of grid power failure, which would strand the Train midway .
    Some times 2 Locos may be used if it is a Rajdhani with two generator coaches for AC etc.,with all AC coaches, and the train has to maintain a schedule..We still do have old WDM2s of 2400HP along with upgraded WDM3s of 3,000 Hp and upwards..the GE WDP4 and 5 series use the more efficient 2 stroke diesels of 4,500 HP and above..
    Still IR uses Diesel Locos mostly for Coal and Iron ore wagons and rarely use the WAP Electric Locos.
    Using multiple units of Electrical or Diesel Locos is done to ensure that the Initial torque required to start the train moving(Kinetic energy) is developed by the Engines. Every engine has a value for pulling effort called " Tractive Effort "and the number of coaches attached is based on this...similarly the braking effort is also twice as good with two or more engines ....The average weight of a Loco is 120 tons...
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