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Thread: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

  1. #11
    Rusted Lucky Luke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonahmano View Post
    I don't think this must be clubbed with 200cc modified FZ16, Fazers, tech talk bikes thread. Though it can be moved from Desi bikes to pit stop but I think I and shv and all others who have done with their modds can fill this thread.
    I do not know if the thread I mentioned is consdered by others as specifically about 200cc. modifications. My understanding is that it is about ALL modifications. However, there is another thread that started long ago about a 180cc. "Joelled" FZ16" (FZ on steroids by Race Concepts), and has not been very lively lately. My opinion is that it would be good that all the threads and posts about at least Race Concepts modification be concentrated in one single place.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonahmano View Post
    Thanks Novice about the run-in information. If I'm not wrong Shv has suggested me to take the run-in duration till 2000kms.
    Depends on "what is left", if I can say so , if the running in after 1,000km. Some will already have their engine running quite freely (I said "quite") if they have done these first 1,000 km in city riding (lots of engine speed and lad changes for few km., or if they were on the highway, which is NOT the best way to do!
    Anyway: to have, after a conventional running is, the engine really free, will need about 2,000km. for most.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonahmano View Post
    Please do tell us about the mileage in the run-in period as this is the only time you will ride the bike sanely
    Last edited by Lucky Luke; 09-24-2012 at 06:19 PM.
    When I do something stupid, my consolation is to know that I'll do the worse one only once!

  2. #12
    Rusted shv18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonahmano View Post
    I don't think this must be clubbed with 200cc modified FZ16, Fazers, tech talk bikes thread. Though it can be moved from Desi bikes to pit stop but I think I and shv and all others who have done with their modds can fill this thread.

    Thanks Novice about the run-in information. If I'm not wrong Shv has suggested me to take the run-in duration till 2000kms.

    Please do tell us about the mileage in the run-in period as this is the only time you will ride the bike sanely
    Hi yes, i had indeed suggested Jonahmano to extend the run-in period close to 2000 kms. For Noobs: In a big bore kit, the tolerances of the piston and the piston rings are much tighter then that of a stock so although Joel advises one that the run-in will finish in the first 500 kms, based on my experience with the R170 i would advise that it is better to be gentle with your souped up ride for the first 2000kms. Even if post 1000 kms one intends to go all the way till red line, do it by slowly throttling the ride towards the redline. Post 2000 kms you can have fun with her. Although with the souped engine now, it will be quite difficult to do that as the nos. on the rpm will fly in the blink of an eye so conventional throttle control with the right hand like on a stock bike will not work!!

    Other senior riders may fill in and post their respective comments on the same.

    I believe the biggest concern about the factor "mileage" will be taken care of with this mod as now with 10:5:1 compression stroke and with the better volumetric efficiency there will be a bump in the nos. Although N-o-v-i-c-e can do justice to my comment by posting his data on the same. Would suggest that you do tankful to tankful method.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by shv18; 09-24-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  3. #13
    Rusted Lucky Luke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-o-v-i-c-e View Post
    Could you tell us (what/ how/ what caused them?) about these dent marks around the bottom of the cylinder sleeve???
    When I do something stupid, my consolation is to know that I'll do the worse one only once!

  4. #14
    Rusted Mad Mik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shv18 View Post
    In a big bore kit, the tolerances of the piston and the piston rings are much tighter then that of a stock so although Joel advises one that the run-in will finish in the first 500 kms, based on my experience with the R170 i would advise that it is better to be gentle with your souped up ride for the first 2000kms. Even if post 1000 kms one intends to go all the way till red line, do it by slowly throttling the ride towards the redline. Post 2000 kms you can have fun with her. Although with the souped engine now, it will be quite difficult to do that as the nos. on the rpm will fly in the blink of an eye so conventional throttle control with the right hand like on a stock bike will not work!!

    Other senior riders may fill in and post their respective comments on the same.
    Well I'm screwed then!!!! I've been going full throttle + redline numerous times. Engines just done 1000kms too! I better start looking for new engine parts

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Luke View Post
    Could you tell us (what/ how/ what caused them?) about these dent marks around the bottom of the cylinder sleeve???
    I too was wondering about these dents but decided not to ask.
    Last edited by Mad Mik; 09-24-2012 at 08:29 PM.

  5. #15
    Rusted N-o-v-i-c-e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Luke View Post
    Could you tell us (what/ how/ what caused them?) about these dent marks around the bottom of the cylinder sleeve???
    The 'dent' mark is chamfering done to the cylinder sleeve for easy reloading.
    Since its a big bore and with a oversize piston chamfering helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by shv18 View Post
    Hi N-o-v-i-c-e,

    To start off the thread on a right note,
    .................................................. .................................................. ..
    I forgot to mention an important thing.

    I am still with the stock carb at the moment...just upjetted it and trying to get the correct tune.

    But now have decided to go for the 29mm carb offered by Joel....the stock one is the BS26 mikuni.
    Feels sufficient at the moment but i think its holding back the full potential of the big bore.
    I feel that coz i am still trying to tune the stock carb for efficient running.

    The 29mm carb would allow for a more linear flow of fuel and air close to the 14:1 efficiency.
    There would be a power bump and also the mileage.

    This may sound bizarre to the mileage junta but yes, fitting a bigger carb than the stock one
    will result in a good mileage.

    The thing is that NOW the stock carb is just about sufficient. It takes in just about the right amount of mixture.
    But when you start ripping the bike the carb would be in an 'overload' mode.
    This means that the carb is trying to fill in the 180cc block with the amount of fuel it was made to fill a 150cc block.
    So now the big bore is deficient in mixture to achieve its full potential. On the other hand the stock carb goes full monty
    and draws in more and more mixture than is needed for a 150cc.(remember its been designed for a 150cc block).

    So here the big bore runs pretty good but not efficiently. Thats the word we need to concentrate on.
    It does not mean your mileage would reduce drastically but you would also not be able to enjoy the full potential of the big bore.

    I tried to explain this as i could and not as an expert to talk in technical terms.
    hope this helps a little to all.

    cheers...
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  6. #16
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    Default Carburetor Upgrade & Free Flow Air Filter

    Thanks for the initial inputs mate.

    Anyways if you don't mind i would try put it up in simple Noob friendly terms.

    The stock Carburetor Mikuni BS 26mm has been designed specifically to provide a correct AFR (Air:Fuel Ratio) mixture to the stock 153cc engine for combustion. However, with the installation of the big bore 180cc kit, the required amount for correct combustion to take place has also increased. Look at it this way, a 10 year old trying to eat a burger compared to you eating the same sized burger, your mouth will be able to take/ prefer larger volume of the burger in a single bite compared to the 10 year old kid!!

    REJETTING
    The cheapest way to fulfill this requirement is Rejetting the pilot jet and the main jet specifications of the stock BS 26 carburetor. The Pilot jet and main jet control the way a thin spray of fuel is formed and then mixed with the air to provide the AFR to the combustion chamber. I hope the Noobs, you are with me till now..

    So rejetting is basically changing the size of the jets to alter the way the spray and the volume of fuel will go and mix with the air to meet the requirements of the 180cc big bore kit . Although it is a temporary solution but doesn't work that great with the RC power up kits... One may find a lot of flat spots i.e sudden hiccup or no power from a certain rpm to certain rpm say 4000 - 6000 rpm and then post 6000 rpm everything is fine. Or if one is really gunning his tuned ride, the bike may feel stressed and hungry for a bit more fuel and air mixture.

    The solution? One has to go for a carburetor upgrade! Now Joel provides two options for Yamaha FZ souped up ride:

    *29MM CV Carburetor: The 29MM CV (Constant velocity) carburetor provides the correct fueling required by the 180cc big bore kit (i.e. big Burger, Maharaja Burger!! ). CV carbs or Constant velocity carbs in the word of mighty 'Mad Mik' , provides linear fueling to the engine i.e. the ride feels smoother and the engine will get ample amount of fueling right from the idling to the red line. Would recommend this set up for extensive touring, especially people who intend to do Leh and Ladakh kinda tours as it is easy to tune even by a local mechanic should the AFR become lean when crossing extremely high altitudes. It is also easier to maintain.

    *32MM Semi Flat Racing Carburetor: There is just one way to describe this carb 'Brute power!', Semi flat carburetor has a very aggressive profile i.e. one gets a very aggressive surge of power. Very good to do drag runs, where your tuned FZ will whoop a lot of others in 0-100 kmph timings. However, i would say this carb is good for street fun/track fun only as it is finicky and may start giving one problems when one starts to climb a certain altitude. In such cases one may have to constantly tune it/ fiddle with the AFR settings.. So Noobs, if you don't do extensive touring like i do and have no intention of hitting Leh and ladakh but want to whoop the exotics and see the faces of the owners.. THIS IS IT!!

    @Mik & Luke
    : Please do correct me if i have left out something..

    Performance Free Flow Air Filter
    Now Folks, why do we need to replace the stock air filter and put in a Performance Air Filter? Well The stock air filter is very good but at the same time quite restrictive with the air flow. The stock air filter will not be able to efficiently provide the correct amount of air flow required by the souped up engine.. so one will witness a drop in performance. Thus, the Performance air filter allows now the tuned up ride to breath better thus generate more power! Imagine you are trying to breath through a blanket and then try to breath through a silk handkerchief.. i hope you get the picture..

    Joel, Race Concepts Provides two types of Performance Air Filters for the same

    * Simota Stock replacement Air Filter: The stock replacement Simota air filter sits right in place of the stock air filter in the AIS box of your ride. Requires periodic cleaning just like you would with the stock air filter. I would highly recommend this type of filter again for tourers and riders who live in a very dusty environment.

    * Simota 50MM Conical Filter: This needs to be connected directly to the carburetor. Gives much better air flow to the Carb, thus providing better atomisation of fuel and better linear power output. It is a mandatory upgrade along with the 32MM Semi Flat carb. Downside is, being exposed to the elements, the interval of cleaning is lesser then the replacement air filter. Well you can't have everything right!!

    Will blabber more later..


    @N-o-v-i-c-e : Please do post the series of events as requested in my earlier post. Would help a lot of readers here.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by shv18; 10-04-2012 at 09:38 AM. Reason: spelling corrections
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  7. #17
    Rusted shv18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mik View Post
    Well I'm screwed then!!!! I've been going full throttle + redline numerous times. Engines just done 1000kms too! I better start looking for new engine parts
    You are an experienced and learned rider. This is applicable for all the Noob and in-experienced riders to avoid any confusions and then stupid kit failure complaints which in most cases is incorrect installation or tune up issues.. so safe approach is a better bet for the generic riders.
    Last edited by shv18; 09-24-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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    Congratulations N-o-v-i-c-e, I really want to see the 0-100 figures now!! With protection and a safe road of course.

  9. #19
    Rusted N-o-v-i-c-e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mik View Post
    Well I'm screwed then!!!! I've been going full throttle + redline numerous times. Engines just done 1000kms too! I better start looking for new engine parts
    Well mate, we know you built the engine yourself and you are a vastly experienced rider...
    So i must say in your case being crewed = happy rider face

    cheers...

    Quote Originally Posted by muztariq View Post
    Congratulations N-o-v-i-c-e, I really want to see the 0-100 figures now!! With protection and a safe road of course.
    Thanks. But you gotta wait for sometime coz i dont have the right equipment for logging the 'times'.
    Will post it in due course of time....
    Last edited by N-o-v-i-c-e; 09-24-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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  10. #20
    Rusted Mad Mik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shv18 View Post

    The stock Carburetor Mikuni BS 26mm Stands for Bull $h!7

    REJETTING
    / Tuning. very important or you can loose that new engine very quickly.

    *29MM CV Carburetor: Luc (I believe) runs a 29mm CV. Please correct me if I am wrong mate.

    *32MM Semi Flat Racing Carburetor: I'm running a 33mm Keihin PWK. This is very responsive but hates stop start peak hour traffic. I have to be very careful with my throttle application or the bike will just take off. A lot harder to be "smooth" in traffic.
    The slide doesn't like being in 1 position, you need to be moving it every so often. Also with a very quick snap of the wrist (from idle) you can flood and stall your engine. You need to be more deliberate and controlled with this style of carb.



    Cheers,
    With more volume you need more air and of course the correct amount of fuel to fill the chamber. Tune is what brings out your power, the polish and shine on your black leather boots if you want.

    The engine is just a air pump. More air it can suck in and pump out the more power it will have to push the piston down spinning the crank around harder and faster. If you want to reduce the power you restrict the air entering and exiting.

    Just my 500 Vietnamese Dongs worth (my 2cents)
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