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Thread: Saddlesore is a child's play

  1. #11
    Rusted muztariq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    Aargee just echoed my voice.. I loved every word he said.

    Saddlesore is actually a big achievement(I am not denying it) - When you attach the word 'first' it becomes much bigger an achievement.

    First saddle sore from India..
    First saddle sore from North India..
    First saddlesore from South India..
    First saddlesore from Hyderabad..
    Fist saddlesore from Miyapur..
    First saddlesore from Aliens elite society..
    First saddlesore from xyz-Block of Aliens elite society..
    First saddlesore from First floor of xyz Block of aliens elite society..
    I dont know where the firsts will end.

    There are some other firsts I have read - First SS on 150 cc bike. First SS on FZ. First SS on 200NS, On avenger 220, First this, first that. and this first is never-ending.

    All these threads are lingering all over the internet.

    Imagine, First climber to Mt. Everest.. First climber to Mt. Everest with two cylinders of oxygen.. First climber to Mt. Everest with one cylinder oxygen.. First climber to Mt. Everest without any oxygen(he never returned)

    What are we giving to the next gen - A race in which only you know that you are racing.. other people on the road does not.

    These rides should be celebrated, but not because some name got entered in a list, but because someone completed a dangerous ride without hurting anyone, including himself.

    Personally, I would not share a road with a person who has not slept for 22 hrs, on top of it he has been riding all this while, on top of it he is still racing against time.
    No matter how exceptional rider he is, no matter how much I respect him, no matter if he is my father/brother/friend.. Don't attempt it when I am around; please!

    If you want to prove endurance, please hold the bike for 24 hrs without stand.. if it falls, let it fall on your foot; not mine.


    EDIT: Just read another first above; FIRST 'group' to complete BB in India.
    Last edited by muztariq; 07-17-2013 at 05:43 PM.

  2. #12
    Moderator antz.bin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    Quote Originally Posted by darkknight View Post
    I am neither for or against it --

    infact I always advocate that endurance runs should be something of a last bastion kind of a thing when you have discovered and tried all other fun factors of motorcycling as a sport
    Well, when I said I was against it, what I meant was, I was against people doing it just for the heck of it. There should be a proper build-up, a proper reason *why* you felt that doing a SaddleSore is the next logical step. I would hate to meet someone about to attempt an *inspired* Saddlesore with no prior experience about the challenges it might present.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkknight View Post
    that said endurance riding be it SS,BB or GQ run for that matter should also be treated as a sport and due respect should be given to the same with respect to the capabilities and readiness of the rider

    It depends on the individual who wants it to earn some brownie points somewhere or test his own skill parameters --
    Of course anyone achieving the feat deserves respect but then the facility shouldn't be abused as a *shortcut* to earning respect from a group of seasoned bikers.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkknight View Post
    whenever someone asks me for advice I always deter him if the motives are muddled up -- and no its not just a piece of paper -- I know several people here who completed these runs successfully but never applied for certification as they are happy in the knowledge of what they can or cannot do--
    The bit in bold is exactly what I do. It is too dangerous if someone is using this as a shortcut to *arrive* on the scene.


    Quote Originally Posted by darkknight View Post
    finally it all comes down to individual -- personal example--when we first attempted BB in 2010 after a point crossing banglore we understood that the next journey required us to complete 1000 kms in 10 hours--stopped ,dropped the plan and slept off
    next year in 2011 saw us with better readiness and we were successful as first group in india to complete the BB
    People like you or your partners in that ride were mature enough to take that decision because you had done enough rides before to know that the odds of succeeding were severely stacked against you. You also could live with its consequences since you always knew at the back of your mind that you may not have succeeded on the first attempt, but there will be many opportunities for you to attempt it sometime later.

    By contrast, someone attempting a saddlesore as his first 150km+ ride may not possess similar judgement or insight. He/She may consider his/her saddlesore run as the only opportunity of *making it big*. When the stakes become so high, the risks amplify many-fold. Even seasoned riders have fallen prey to the odds, the relatively inexperienced should take this into consideration and be prepared to stop and sleep it off if it gets too dangerous.
    Last edited by antz.bin; 07-17-2013 at 05:48 PM.
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  3. #13
    Super Moderator Old Fox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    Being for or against endurance rides is analogous to being the same for motorcycling. Both carry life-threatening risks and so are bound to polarize opinions. The arguments here are very much like those between parents and their young children who want to start out on motorcycling

    Any act of sitting astride a motorcycle and riding it burdens the rider with the basic responsibility of staying safe and keeping others safe at the same time. The riding speed or the physical state of the rider does not change this fundamental responsibility. Race tracks are considered better for speeding only because the 'keeping others safe' part of the equation gets eliminated. Though not completely so which is why you have rules to abide by there too. Endurance runs pre se require the rider to ride till the very edge of his skill and physical ability envelopes. Riding this cliff-edge or the 'twilight zone of riding' necessarily requires a massive amount of background experience to remain predictably safe. And there is no short cut to experience - just the long road across years and thousands of miles. People like @darkknight here, Vaibhav Arora (@kurtrules of the 33 hrs Delhi-Leh - non stop fame) and a handful of others had a massive enough background, a very balanced head on their shoulders and went through loads of introspection before attempting such rides.

    The danger lies not in attempting an endurance ride. The danger lies in how. Take this in a frivolous manner, on an impulse destined as a 'brag-post' on FB or just to prove a point and it'll only be by sheer chance that you'll live to make that post or prove that point. The end, if you are lucky, shall be dramatic and final. If not, you'll die a slow death each day of your remaining life. Such is the harsh reality of sustained fast motorcycling. A non-frivolous way means stretching and testing those boundaries in a progressive manner without any premeditation of definitively successfully completing the ride whenever attempted. The ability to back-off when things don't seem right is as important as the skill to get it through. But then that is true for any ride, be it a leisurely tour, a track race, an off-road rally or even a commute. That's true for any form of motorcycling save that in a video game.

    Being judgmental and dismissive is easy. And also demeaning to those who have attempted the forbidden. There will always be people who shall push the boundaries, knowing that such pushing does entail a more than necessary quantum of risk. It is just that only those should attempt this push who have the requisite tools to reduce the risks to as low a level as is humanly possible. The others have NO RIGHT to ride the edge, get hurt and/or hurt others and become a blot on the motorcycling community by being greedy for appreciation and insolent in assessing their own abilities. Prepare to progress and then too only if it means so much.
    Last edited by Old Fox; 07-17-2013 at 06:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    Quote Originally Posted by muztariq View Post

    If you want to prove endurance, please hold the bike for 24 hrs without stand.. if it falls, let it fall on your foot; not mine.
    If this was the case then I would be" the first to do saddle sore every alternate days of a week


    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 2


  5. #15
    Rusted darkknight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    Quote Originally Posted by muztariq View Post

    There are some other firsts I have read - First SS on 150 cc bike. First SS on FZ. First SS on 200NS, On avenger 220, First this, first that. and this first is never-ending.
    The above categories donot exist -- the group one does -- it was confirmed through IBA that 3 and above constitute a group by definition.
    the reason it does exist is that the variables increase manifold times when you have more than a single rider attempting this.


    Imagine, First climber to Mt. Everest.. First climber to Mt. Everest with two cylinders of oxygen.. First climber to Mt. Everest with one cylinder oxygen.. First climber to Mt. Everest without any oxygen(he never returned)
    without supplemental oxygen people have climbed everest. look up reinhold messner,kazi sherpa etc

    These rides should be celebrated, but not because some name got entered in a list, but because someone completed a dangerous ride without hurting anyone, including himself.
    For this perception look up what OF sir has written. Couldn't put it in better words.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    Wow what a write up Sir. ... I used to read the no of SS stories and and use to feel so down and out, about the fact that I can never complete one in my life. Not that, I have lost my limbs or something, but simply because I know my limitations. I know, if I ride for 500kms, I will need sleep. And if I sleep, I wont wake up for 1 hours atleast. Hence I would never had attempted such a ride. But would always have felt, I missed somethng in my life. Thanks for the post Sir.
    SS is not a Certificate of passing motorcycling degree with distinction. Why so serious about that. Do it, only if you are well aware of your limitations....
    Thank you again Sir, for the penning down your matured advices....
    Last edited by sambit; 07-18-2013 at 01:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    this was a much needed topic.. there have been people who have completed the SS and have lived to tell about it.. but the point to note is that they all were very experienced riders and had previously done many long trips, which built their endurance.. but many guys here start to fantasize about this just by reading the logs.. well, either they are too ignorant or just want to show off..
    nice to see our senior members and moderators coming forward with their views and laying all the possible outcomes.. pro/ against/ reality.. this part was an eye opener.. laying all the facts clearly..
    and if still someone wants to do as such.. its their personal choice and we can't stop anyone for anything..

    may the soul of our fellow riders rest in peace.. and they be an example of what these rides can do..
    dying maybe easy, but the parents and other family members back home will die everyday.. do kepp them in mind before even thinking about such things..

    I can never even think about such things as things are now.. my bum starts hurting badly only after a few hours of riding.. let alone 24 hrs
    Last edited by nadz11.ns; 07-18-2013 at 02:29 AM. Reason: ...
    RootedCosmopolitan likes this.

    Ride safe and have fun.
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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    Perhaps same reasons why I wont do saddlesore.

    I have done many spells of 12+ hours and 900+ hours from bike ranging from 150 to 650cc. The time distance calculations done here are very practical and valid. 65kmph is good average speed that you can keep on most indian roads. Speeds above these are only possible on few roads like kolhapur bangalore stretches, with reasonably less risks.

    Even on those roads, on a long ride, I can atleast see 3 to 4 dogs hit n crushed, and atleast one narrow escapes from avoiding them, no exception in last 3 rides, even hit a cow once .

    Key to ride safe on roads here is slowing down when necessary, near villages, dividers, animals and vehicles. Taking breaks when needed and most importantly, not riding as this is your last chance to complete the ride. Running against time with goal of speed can only cause trouble on indian roads. Saddle sore can be completed with being safe and planning but an individual has to be prepared to let it go. If not, any eventuality is going to be spanner in the wheels.

    A faster bike and faster speeds do not always take you faster to the destination.

    I prefer going to a destination and exploring the country than a super overnight sprint. I consider completing a long tour, with loads of photos, experiences and new destinations a good show off and achievement thats just me. Saddlesore means you wake up a day, ride n come back, post a fb status n done, wham bam, thank you mam, nah, not my types

  9. #19
    CDK
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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    I totally agree with Aargee here. I too was fascinated with all this SS and went out to attempt it - in my Pulsar 150 !!! Two hours and I know this is'nt for me! I am a rider who will ride any distance but the ride should be interesting. It should have life in it. I must enjoy the surroundings, the wind blowing against my chest and the sweet roar of the engine. I stopped midway coz my mind was pre occupied to notice the usual good things that happen whenever I ride.

    No offence to guys who did it. And this is not another "this grape is sour" story. In a place like South India, with a 150 - 350 cc engine bike, my opinion is that it makes absolutely no sense to do such a feat.

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    Default Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

    The topic is certainly nice and Aargee has exposed the flip side of SaddleSore. Any person in the right spirit would take @aargee 's words and think about it instead of reacting to it immediately. If it sounds discouraging to anybody then they got it all wrong. The topic is all about thinking and doing it the right way 'only' if necessary.

    However to make this more useful, I'd request the members who post about SaddleSore(s) or long trips to highlight the hurdles faced and measures taken during their journey. Best way would be to narrate a separate paragraph or bullet points specifically on the difficulties in a detailed manner. I am sure that it would be read and members thinking about long distance rides and SS might think about it.

    I have already requested a member @sakshar to do the same in his new post . Fellow BHP-ians can do the same on their own threads or request their fellow mates to do so. Thank you.
    My DIY(s) - Sprocket bearing change | Paint job | Custom speedo dial

    Getting angry at somebody is the same as getting angry with a bike that just won't go. You should stop and start thinking.
    A good mechanic will let you watch even without charging you for it. | Riding faster than everyone else only guarantees youll ride alone.

    It is funny to know that we've been imitated and copied so well
    and surprising when we notice our mistakes are copied as well.

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