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Thread: Risk is a ‘Fungible’ Thing!

  1. #11
    Addicted liionheart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Risk is a ‘Fungible’ Thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kos View Post
    unfortunately, the people you are talking about are the lower strata of the society, for whom, safety is less important than bringing home two square meals a day.
    Yes, you are right but the thing is there is lots of population other than delivery guys who just refuse to accept safety & manners while driving just drive to destination is their moto.

    Your second idea of sensitization is the way to go but the problems remains the same they are not interested. just try to teach your neighborhood uncle/friend about this and see their reaction.
    Drive FAST but not Rough, Drive SAFE But not Slow.

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    cep
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    Default Re: Risk is a ‘Fungible’ Thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by liionheart View Post
    just try to teach your neighborhood uncle/friend about this and see their reaction.
    I have tried this a million times. And I have failed. Every. Single. Time!

    There seemed to be some hope, with the recent government fiasco of making helmets compulsory. But we are back to square one now, and everyone is riding without a lid again. Unless people change their attitude, and accept the risk involved (to them, as well as to others), there isn't going to be a positive change.
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    Kos
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    Default Re: Risk is a ‘Fungible’ Thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by liionheart View Post
    Yes, you are right but the thing is there is lots of population other than delivery guys who just refuse to accept safety & manners while driving just drive to destination is their moto.

    Your second idea of sensitization is the way to go but the problems remains the same they are not interested. just try to teach your neighborhood uncle/friend about this and see their reaction.
    yeah, as i mentioned earlier, the sensitization solution is a long term one, it won't work on neighbourhood uncle/friend, it has to be implemented on the kids who are still learning, tweeners, or even younger than that. not necessarily about helmets while on bikes, but about importance of safety in all walks of life (and also importance of cleanliness and non littering). I have seen toddlers and 3 yr olds in Japan throwing litter in garbage cans WITHOUT being prompted. Japan is also the only country I have not been able to see traffic cameras to catch rule breakers. why? because their sense of responsibility is so great, that they take pride in not breaking rules.
    Last edited by Kos; 12-17-2015 at 06:59 AM. Reason: double trouble
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    Moderator The Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Risk is a ‘Fungible’ Thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kos View Post
    when you are going at 100 kph on the highway, you have catered for the extra risk by making your body more taut. you grip the handlebars tighter, you knees are pressing the tank harder, your body is much more tense than when you are riding at 40 kph.
    hence, you are keeping the risk taking appetite constant at X, not by wearing the extra riding gear (that is only something you would need IF there is an accident) but by changing your body posture and positioning, to ENSURE the eventuality doesn't take place in the first place. risk mitigating features being the posture, not the safety kit.

    gear is important, but attitude is more important.
    that's my take on this...
    On the contrary, when riding at 100kmph on the highway, the body gets more relaxed, grip on the handlebars looser and your mind more open and free. That is why i stay safe. If i did as you described, i would have crashed many times already!!!

    I do completely agree with you on this line though - Gear is important, but attitude is more important.

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    Default Re: Risk is a ‘Fungible’ Thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Monk View Post
    On the contrary, when riding at 100kmph on the highway, the body gets more relaxed, grip on the handlebars looser and your mind more open and free. That is why i stay safe. If i did as you described, i would have crashed many times already!!!

    I do completely agree with you on this line though - Gear is important, but attitude is more important.

    Cheers
    You are missing the point totally. Whenever we are riding on high speed(subjective term based on bike quality and your skill quality combined) our attitude, focus, behavior changes significantly we do become more focused on road ahead, situation awareness heightens for small changes reflex action increases. And in no way we can define it relaxed. That's why high speed driving is very taxing on body.

    Now keep the same bike but increase the speed to 140 kmph(may be high speed in your terms with your skill level) will you still be relaxed. I bet Not. Or changes traffic condition, same bike with 100kmph on highway but medium traffic(again subjective term) of container truck and Interstate Buses and SUV.Feeling relaxed!!.

    You can be relaxed when long good condition highway with no traffic. But again its false perception of safety if you remember term Highway hynosis.
    Kos likes this.
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    Default Re: Risk is a ‘Fungible’ Thing!

    Another well-written article!
    There's a saying - 'It takes 20 years to become a conservative from a liberal without changing a single idea'. And that's how it is. Your point of view changes with time. I'm 31 and the sole bread earner of my family. Each and every time I am challenged on the road, I give up. Because for me that is risk. And I can't afford to take these kind of risks. Life is not from the screens of ROADRASH where you go down and get up and repeat.
    Then there are those people who have a riding jacket, a pair of gloves and a LS2/MT and consider themselves king. Obviously this consists of maybe 25-30% of the people who own all these riding gears. But how does ensuring one's own safety guarantee one can play with other's safety on the road? To me, these folks pose more risk to others than those who ride without all these gears.
    Read somewhere that most accidents occur within 3 km.s of your home. Means either you are too tired or too relaxed. Does not matter what safety gear/equipment you are using. You need to know your machine's limits. And of course your own limit!

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    Default Re: Risk is a ‘Fungible’ Thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shivanshu View Post
    Excellent Sir.

    In motorcycling, just one example - when its raining ride without rain gear and ride with rain gear. One will be able to spot difference itself in every aspect of how you ride in these situations, if one introspects.
    Thanks Shivanshu. Relevant example. But then proper gear allows your mind to focus better on the more vital job at hand - riding - rather than constantly evaluating how your body is feeling while exposed to the elements.

    Quote Originally Posted by liionheart View Post
    You are missing the point totally. Whenever we are riding on high speed(subjective term based on bike quality and your skill quality combined) our attitude, focus, behavior changes significantly we do become more focused on road ahead, situation awareness heightens for small changes reflex action increases. And in no way we can define it relaxed. That's why high speed driving is very taxing on body.

    Now keep the same bike but increase the speed to 140 kmph(may be high speed in your terms with your skill level) will you still be relaxed. I bet Not. Or changes traffic condition, same bike with 100kmph on highway but medium traffic(again subjective term) of container truck and Interstate Buses and SUV.Feeling relaxed!!.

    You can be relaxed when long good condition highway with no traffic. But again its false perception of safety if you remember term Highway hynosis.
    When I mentioned 'Risk Homeostasis' - this is exactly what I meant. Repeated forays into the high speed riding zone without any scares or damage lowers the perceived risk threshold as a result and you tend to relax because of this and not because the risk has actually reduced in any way. And that is where the danger is - the difference between perceived risk and actual risk. The first few times that you hit the ton, you're eyes and ears wide open. And this heightened alertness saves your bacon. But in time as you become habitual to speed and your heightened alertness keeps you safe, you start believing that speed is actually not that risky after all. This makes you complacent instead of becoming more alert as you used to be. And so the risk resulting from complacency adds to the risk inherent in high speed riding which will always be there. The scary part is that you have no idea of this increase in risk unless you keep a tight watch upon your own attitude towards 'speed'. And mind you - this ability to keep a watch on your own self is not automatic - this has to be diligently cultivated, consciously self-imposed for long enough till it becomes a habit. And then 'speed' will never become a habit for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by krishna77 View Post
    Another well-written article!
    There's a saying - 'It takes 20 years to become a conservative from a liberal without changing a single idea'. And that's how it is. Your point of view changes with time. I'm 31 and the sole bread earner of my family. Each and every time I am challenged on the road, I give up. Because for me that is risk. And I can't afford to take these kind of risks. Life is not from the screens of ROADRASH where you go down and get up and repeat.
    Then there are those people who have a riding jacket, a pair of gloves and a LS2/MT and consider themselves king. Obviously this consists of maybe 25-30% of the people who own all these riding gears. But how does ensuring one's own safety guarantee one can play with other's safety on the road? To me, these folks pose more risk to others than those who ride without all these gears.
    Read somewhere that most accidents occur within 3 km.s of your home. Means either you are too tired or too relaxed. Does not matter what safety gear/equipment you are using. You need to know your machine's limits. And of course your own limit!
    As Krishna says above - that's self awareness in action again. No amount of skills and hardware can reduce risk without this one single element in a motorcyclists repertoire. One must always be aware of what is going on - with you. within you and around you.

    The courier boy/delivery boy scenario is again not one of not caring about risk. It is just that the consequences of that increased risk seem so distant since all is usually well. Of course this attitude changes pretty quickly at the point of impact or skid or that drop - thereon the risk appears a lot more real. They know about the risk but because of the relative rarity of mishaps compared to the profusion of mishap free rides, they tend to relegate risk to a lower priority level than making time on the road as their job demands. And ride on believing more in lopsided statistics (I've been riding like this for months and nothing's happened eh! so I must be doing everything right) than in the perpetuity of risk (that it is always around and never vanishes).
    Shivanshu likes this.
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