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**Noor** · 12-08-2011, 02:45 AM

Thread approved

**Satyamzma** · 12-08-2011, 11:46 AM

if going for Superbike ... i will Prefer Suzuki over Others ... Go for Bandit 1250 and start Fast Touring

**The Mountain** · 12-08-2011, 12:30 PM

With an 800cc triple, I'm pretty sure the Tiger can do 120km/h all day, which is faster than pretty much every highway in my area (and probably every highway bikes can legally ride on in India) will accomodate. To me, top speed isn't going to be a factor, since there aren't any roads here good enough to safely ride that fast. At best, I'll be able to hit 120 on some of the longer straights. As far as that goes, the Bandit is likely not much faster than the Tiger. The Bandit allegedly tops out somewhere past 200km/h, and the Tiger can probably do 160 or 180. In town, the Bandit can probably accelerate a little harder too, but the lighter Tiger will be really close, and most roads in Bhubaneswar are too clogged for stoplight racing anyway.

To add to my original list above, one other pro for the Tiger is the tall seating position, which makes it easier to anticipate traffic.

**Siddharth Jodh** · 12-08-2011, 12:53 PM

From one confused soul to another:
the Bandit is no real-life bandit, in its original form, it looks very staid. But if you are going to strip it down and add some spice to it, then it is going to be a very different matter.
A big pro for the Bandit would be the dependable Jap inline-4 motor, plus Suzuki has already been here for quite sometime.
And do not forget, 450CC is a big difference, you can have some wicked fun boosting performance

and stuff.

**The Mountain** · 12-08-2011, 01:29 PM

That's a good point; Suzuki has been in-country a while. The dealer/parts network is probably pretty stable. And yes, the Bandit isn't exactly stirring in stock form (though it sounds pretty good even through the stock exhaust). But, while 450cc is a big difference, it's not insurmountable. The Bandit motor is pretty mild. Redline is under 10,000rpm. A supersport 600 will run rings around it, even with a 600cc deficit.

Since I don't plan to do more than put a slip-on exhaust on it, I'm not going to see huge gains in performance. Even in the US, it's easy to tune some bikes beyond the point where you can use all of their capabilities. That limit is lower here, mostly due to heavier traffic and generally-poorer road conditions. So, while it may be possible to wring 140hp out of the Bandit motor, there isn't much point. My after-purchase bill for the Bandit was already close to Rs.50,000, and that's for modifications I knew I'd be able to see benefit from. I'm not going to spend money on things I can't use, just to look cool.

**The Mountain** · 12-08-2011, 01:51 PM

I should probably clarify something that might not be immediately obvious. I'm originally from the US. Before I came here, I was debating whether to buy an R1 or a Buell Lightning XB12 as an ordinary commuter, because bikes like the Bandit were slightly boring. Exotic bikes to me were Bimota Tesis and Confederates. Bikes like the Hayabusa, CBR1000, VMAX, Ducati 1098 and ZR1400 were common, everyday sights (well, maybe the VMAX was a little interesting, but only because it was a redesign of a bike that hadn't changed in forever), and the Bandit wasn't even worth noticing. Hayabusas were even kind of cliche in the sportbike world because *everyone* seemed to have one. Harleys were (overpriced) bikes that overweight accountants bought in a failed attempt to recapture their youth, and the joke was (and still is, as far as I'm concerned) that Harley Davidson was a clothing seller with really expensive accessories. I passed three or four $30,000 custom choppers pretty much every day going to work (and never really saw the point; they're loud, uncomfortable, and hard to control).

I'm not buying this bike as a status symbol. I have very little regard for people who buy expensive bikes/cars/boats/etc just so they can show off the money they spent. I'm spending this much on a bike because it's the only way I can get the kind of performance I'm used to; I don't have a choice. Bragging about the new Akrapovic exhaust or the race-spec tires you just put on doesn't carry much weight with me, since my first question is "yeah, but where can you use that extra performance?"

I understand that, to riders accustomed to "big" bikes having 220cc, something like the Bandit is almost incomprehensible. However, I'm approaching this purchase from a practical point of view, since neither of these bikes is particularly spectacular from my perspective.

A good way to think about my perspective is this: To me, buying an elephant is almost incomprehensible. It would easily cost more than a house to buy one in the US, if you can even find one for sale, and *no one* else would have one. But here, you can get one for less than the cost of a new Pulsar, and they're considered pests, since herds of them invade villages around here every week, it seems. Imagine my purchase as if you were buying an elephant: costly, but not that big of a deal.

**2strokerama** · 12-08-2011, 11:06 PM

You may be used to a certain performance and not want to compromise on that, but where is the space on our roads to run a big bike like its meant to be, on every day commutes? where is the joy in running it on our patchy, potholed, unpredictable, ill mannered roads?

I expect you'd be stopping for a cow, dog, dung, pothole, unmarked\broken speedbump, idiot listening to music while crossing the road, some other idiot who cant maintain his lane, one other shithead who's in his own world speaking on the phone while riding\driving, bus and truck drivers cutting left and right like theyre driving ferraris and spraying spit in every direction in tandem with all their passengers while they swerve around, etc, etc; just as just as soon as you'd salivate at a rare stretch to wring open the throttle. Of course, early mornings and laaate evenings are an entirely different story. But thats half the fun gone for me when Im out of the obstacle course of city traffic. I wonder how much frustration Id be having if I owned a big bike in these conditions. Im having enough on my 150 cc in our roads.

From your perspective which I cant see too clearly, Id go with the triumph or a similar dual sport....mostly because it would, as you say, suit our roads better than a bandit without any extra work or expense and at a similar performance point where it matters. And it looks better and FUNNER!!!! Spares and service could be a sore point with triumph being a new entrant, like someone else pointed out. The Vstrom also looks like a good alternate to me.

But be it any capacity, Id prefer a bike with suspension and handling capable of running motorcycle parkours....From whatever Ive seen here in South India, Im inclined to think that power is secondary on our city roads and traffic compared to handling.

From my perspective, Id rather buy a much smaller, well behaved bike and enjoy running it, tuning it or upgrading it if I eventually get bored; without worrying about the gaping hole in my pocket that Id be making for a bigger bike that I wouldn't know how to make good use of. Of course my perspective might be severely limited by my experience with no bigger bike than a CBR 250R and an RD350. One bored me and the other scared me.

**The Mountain** · 12-09-2011, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by 2strokerama View Post

You may be used to a certain performance and not want to compromise on that, but where is the space on our roads to run a big bike like its meant to be, on every day commutes? where is the joy in running it on our patchy, potholed, unpredictable, ill mannered roads?

I expect you'd be stopping for a cow, dog, dung, pothole, unmarked\broken speedbump, idiot listening to music while crossing the road, some other idiot who cant maintain his lane, one other shithead who's in his own world speaking on the phone while riding\driving, bus and truck drivers cutting left and right like theyre driving ferraris and spraying spit in every direction in tandem with all their passengers while they swerve around, etc, etc; just as just as soon as you'd salivate at a rare stretch to wring open the throttle. Of course, early mornings and laaate evenings are an entirely different story. But thats half the fun gone for me when Im out of the obstacle course of city traffic. I wonder how much frustration Id be having if I owned a big bike in these conditions. Im having enough on my 150 cc in our roads.

From your perspective which I cant see too clearly, Id go with the triumph or a similar dual sport....mostly because it would, as you say, suit our roads better than a bandit without any extra work or expense and at a similar performance point where it matters. And it looks better and FUNNER!!!! Spares and service could be a sore point with triumph being a new entrant, like someone else pointed out. The Vstrom also looks like a good alternate to me.

But be it any capacity, Id prefer a bike with suspension and handling capable of running motorcycle parkours....From whatever Ive seen here in South India, Im inclined to think that power is secondary on our city roads and traffic compared to handling.

From my perspective, Id rather buy a much smaller, well behaved bike and enjoy running it, tuning it or upgrading it if I eventually get bored; without worrying about the gaping hole in my pocket that Id be making for a bigger bike that I wouldn't know how to make good use of. Of course my perspective might be severely limited by my experience with no bigger bike than a CBR 250R and an RD350. One bored me and the other scared me.

Your point about the condition of the roads is what I've been saying. It's why I had planned to modify that Bandit to be better suited to inner-city riding, and why I believe the Tiger is well-suited to this kind of riding. I believe there is room on Indian roads for big(ger) bikes. Whether those roads are good enough yet to support Hayabusas or GSXRs is up for debate.

Thank you for a mature view on what bikes are appropriate here.

**niks_devil666** · 12-09-2011, 09:42 AM

I would recommend an 800 XC since you won't be modifying it like you'll do it to a new Bandit. wait for Triumph to reveal prices in AE2012 , it might even come cheaper than bandit.

**bluevolt** · 12-10-2011, 07:01 AM

I am in the same boat as you are, and am looking forward to buying my next motorcycle. I had a Ninja 250 for two years, which I sold recently. While it was a beautiful, fun, almost perfect road motorcycle, I always wished it was a tad more comfortable and more versatile on bad roads and no roads which you often ride on in India. I also cursed the nameless (and faceless) bureaucrats whenever I hit a pothole or when the roads became slushy and mud splashed up on the chain and on the bodywork. The Ninja did not look nice dirty. A lowside (which I never had on the 250) was potentially bank balance busting.

I am definitely not going to buy a fully faired motorcycle since I don't do track days and even if I do, it is going to be 4 days in a year. I would want to use my new motorcycle to commute everyday, and then hit the highways once in a month or so.

From what I hear about new launches, I seem to have only two choices:

1) Triumph Tiger 800 XC or BMW F800 GS (rumored)

2) BMW F650 GS (strong rumor for auto expo launch)

Tiger 800 XC -Pros:

a) Probable 'affordable' price due to Triumph's intent to assemble components locally and save duties.
b) Tall, mid weight Adv motorcycle which will have no problems on B roads or slush.
c) Punchy (as reported in reviews) engine which should be happy cruising at 160kmph
d) Sounds great.

Tiger 800 XC -Cons:
a) Sales of Triumph might dip after the initial euphoria and the dealerships might be not be sustainable to run. Case in point is Ducati/Hyosung. That might lead to non-availability of spares and service if dealerships closes.
b) Very tall. Stock seat height does not allow me to place my feet on the ground, and the low seat is still tall. I am 5'9". I will probably keep dropping it in the Indian traffic.
c) Tube type tires: Punctures will be a pain to get fixed if you are a little away from civilization. Roadside quickfix Johnny will bang and pound your swingarm/fork/rims into an unrecognizable mass of imported metal.
d) Triple engine will heat up in Indian weather very quickly, making it uncomfortable for commutes.

A standard Tiger 800 might have made more sense with tubeless tyres and low seat height. I would have a similar opinion of the BMW F800GS

BMW F650GS -Pros:

a) An all-round motorcycle with enough (yet tame) power to do anything you want.
b) Low seat height and tubeless tyres
c) Detuned Parallel twin should heat up lesser than Triumph.
d) Will be sold through BMW car dealerships, so accessibility and long term availability should score higher than Triumph.

BMW F650GS -Cons:
a) Single disk brake up front.
b) Assumption that servicing/parts/spares cost will be higher.
c) 'Take it or leave it' looks.
d) Uninspiring exhaust note.

I would pick the F650GS over the Tiger 800 XC if they were priced the same. I would not buy a Bandit 1250 because frankly, I am not sure what it does. Is it a naked streetbike? Is it a tourer? Traillie? The way I see the Bandit, it is just a big motor in a frame with some basic components. So not sure what I am paying for.

**Siddharth Jodh** · 12-10-2011, 10:08 AM

Bluevolt and niks_devil666 both make very strong points in favour of and against the Triumph. It's not even launched here, so just wait until then. And if BMW comes out with some of its models, then you will be very, very confused in a good way. After all, BMW ruggedness is legendary.

**The Mountain** · 12-10-2011, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by bluevolt View Post

a) Sales of Triumph might dip after the initial euphoria and the dealerships might be not be sustainable to run. Case in point is Ducati/Hyosung. That might lead to non-availability of spares and service if dealerships closes.
b) Very tall. Stock seat height does not allow me to place my feet on the ground, and the low seat is still tall. I am 5'9". I will probably keep dropping it in the Indian traffic.
c) Tube type tires: Punctures will be a pain to get fixed if you are a little away from civilization. Roadside quickfix Johnny will bang and pound your swingarm/fork/rims into an unrecognizable mass of imported metal.
d) Triple engine will heat up in Indian weather very quickly, making it uncomfortable for commutes.

I appreciate the view you provide, as you have been riding an "expensive" bike here for some time now. I agree on the parts issue, if Triumph goes under, though there's always ordering and having them shipped. Other than major engine work, I can manage most repairs. I'll get the shop manual, and I'll have my own tools, so I hopefully can manage any regular issues. Also, I would venture that a tube-type tire might be a plus, rather than a minus here. Tube rims can be bent back into shape after a bang-up, at least enough to get home (unlike alloy rims). Tube tires can be patched by the rider, with basic tools (think bicycle, except heftier). That's how the real adventure riders do it, after all; some guides even recommend putting tubes inside tubeless tires, so you can fix it yourself if you get a flat in the middle of Siberia or something. Also, the motor is water-cooled, and not that stressed compared to, say, the Speed Triple. I think I'll be ok (even the big four-cylinder bikes do ok in 40C Texas heat).

And, for the record, the Bandit is a "Naked" street bike. The version with the half-fairing (the one available in India) is aimed at "sport-touring". The Bandit has a history, in it's earlier air-cooled incarnation, as a good platform for customization, hence the streetfighter support.

**bluevolt** · 12-10-2011, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by The Mountain View Post

I appreciate the view you provide, as you have been riding an "expensive" bike here for some time now. I agree on the parts issue, if Triumph goes under, though there's always ordering and having them shipped. Other than major engine work, I can manage most repairs. I'll get the shop manual, and I'll have my own tools, so I hopefully can manage any regular issues. Also, I would venture that a tube-type tire might be a plus, rather than a minus here. Tube rims can be bent back into shape after a bang-up, at least enough to get home (unlike alloy rims). Tube tires can be patched by the rider, with basic tools (think bicycle, except heftier). That's how the real adventure riders do it, after all; some guides even recommend putting tubes inside tubeless tires, so you can fix it yourself if you get a flat in the middle of Siberia or something. Also, the motor is water-cooled, and not that stressed compared to, say, the Speed Triple. I think I'll be ok (even the big four-cylinder bikes do ok in 40C Texas heat).

And, for the record, the Bandit is a "Naked" street bike. The version with the half-fairing (the one available in India) is aimed at "sport-touring". The Bandit has a history, in it's earlier air-cooled incarnation, as a good platform for customization, hence the streetfighter support.

In India, I would think one would face a greater risk of a tyre puncture than a bent rim. While I am aware of the advantage tubed type tires offer over tubeless types, it will be more of a bother in day to day riding. The ideal scenario is that one buys a standard Tiger 800, and you swap tyres (like, switch to a set of Heidenau's) when going to places less travelled.

**The Mountain** · 12-10-2011, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by bluevolt View Post

In India, I would think one would face a greater risk of a tyre puncture than a bent rim. While I am aware of the advantage tubed type tires offer over tubeless types, it will be more of a bother in day to day riding. The ideal scenario is that one buys a standard Tiger 800, and you swap tyres (like, switch to a set of Heidenau's) when going to places less travelled.

I agree that a puncture is a lot more likely. I was just pointing out the advantage of steel rims in a general way, not that I expected bent rims to be a common thing. Actually, I was planning kind of the reverse of what you suggested. Rather than having the ordinary tiger with an extra set of knobbies, I would prefer to have the longer-travel XC, and keep a second set of "street" tires for longer road trips.

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Suzuki Bandit 1250 or Triumph 800XC?

Suzuki Bandit 1250 or Triumph 800XC?

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