Thread Approved

Thanks for the interesting content. Even I was wondering about the benefits.

Damn! I shouldnt be saying this, but I am told that the KTM ones are 8000 a pair! At that price, they are pretty cool to have!

Thanks for the quick approval. I believe having you guys here as Mods has quickened the approval process a lot. Keep up the good work

On to the thread, I m on an upgrade spree on my 2009 FZ-16. Got done with the engine mods almost and now on to something for the handling and chassis. Hope everyone pitches in so that this thread can be a ready reckoner of sorts.

Thanks again !

Thanks Satyen.
Would be interesting to know if these can be fitted on to other bikes (FZ etc). And, how much of an effort this entails.

Do post about costs, issues and experiences you run into while doing the mod on this thread too. There might be other bike owners who might want to cannibalize on KTM parts for upgrading their bikes. This thread can act like a good guideline.

Yes, will do.

For starters, here's what the Showa site has to offer:
Shock Absorbers?Front Forks??|?SHOWA CORPORATION

The SFF one's are the top of the line i m guessing.

They have an office (per google) in faridabad. MunjalShowa also comes up a lot of times when searching. I think they are the Hero Arm for sourcing forks for their own bikes. Not sure they would even sell it outside.

In Inverted forks the larger diameter tubes contribute to greater stability, ie. less flex, under hard braking, greater stability in corners. Higher power engines need greater stopping performance of brakes, and the fork compresses under load, when these forces meet up at the forks, they will start to flex, and in the case of inverted forks, will flex less due to their greater diameter. inverted fork tubes can be up to 52mm in diameter vs. 45mm for the largest diameter conventional fork tube. ....we also get a much greater range and option of adjustability, preload, of compression and rebound, and very good brakes system can be mounted...The inverted forks have better anti-dive properties compared to the conventional ones.

yeah, the SFFs are top of the line.....seen on the kawasaki mx bikes since 2011, as far as i knwo. They are'nt the ones on the duke200 for sure.

General query:
If I happen to plonk one of these on the P220,
1. Will the P220 front-end dive reduce?
2. What will be the changes in behavior which can be expected?
3. Will front braking grip reduce (since due to less front-end drive, weight transfer might not be as much as it is now).
4. Will the bike become more stoppie-happy?

From what i know...
the front end dive will reduce, flexing will reduce ,and cornering will be precise,front brake grip will not reduce since transfer of momentum to front during braking will still exist. The change will be that with less dive you will be more upright than staring at the tarmac at the end of braking..
The stoppies will be difficult since the front dive is now limited ,and stoppies will require greater effort.

shot an inquiry to Showa of japan for India retailers. let's see what they have to say.

It's a lot more complicated than just fitting USDs (Upside Down) forks. The forces that are creating the flex have to go somewhere. If the forks are not flexing, then that force will transfer to the steering head. If the steering head is not strong enough, it will flex creating stability issues. In sort, if the chassis is not strong enough, USDs can have some very unpleasant side effects.

The hunt for better forks started in the mid 80s in the racing world. In the early 80s great strides were made in chassis development. As the perimeter frame became more ridged the front Ceriani (regular) style forks were found to be flexing. Chassis developments was found to be outstripping suspension development.

If I recall correctly, in 1988, at the Bruno GP, Eddie Lawson took his YZR 500 out for practice. Much to everyone's surprise the bike was fitted with a new designed fork made by Ohlins. It was so new that no one knew what to call them. They were called up side down forks in the pit for the want of better name. That soon became known as USDs. Anyway, Eddie just did a few laps on the USD fitted bike and then reverted to the traditional forks to get down to business of setting up for the race. Initial impressions were good and in a couple of years it became the de facto fork for GP bikes, which were quickly followed into production bikes.

I am sorry but I would need a bit more clarification on this one. The regular fork flexes during cornering or braking? Assuming a sufficiently stiff setup like R15 or 200NS (the ones with the stiffer perimeter frames), what could these bikes stand to benefit from this type of suspension? (Sorry for Noob queries )

Anyways, I was wary that there could be some undesirable effects, hence my earlier query.

Also, it would be very nice if you could point us to more reading material before the readers decide if all this is actually worth the effort for their existing non-perimeter/trellis frame bikes.

The new Pulsar 200 NS chassis may be suitable for USDs. As I understand (though not sure how accurate my information is) it is a derivative of the KTM frame. Since the KTM uses USDs, the Pulsar should be able to take the load. However, for the current P220, I have my doubts on the suitability of the frame for such conversion. It will need to be studied by someone to come to a definite answer.

Regular forks normally flex at their weakest point i.e. just below the lower triple clamp. To ensure that the flexing does not resonate into uncontrolled vibrations a fork brace is use under the front mudguard. Thus, while flexing is not being eliminated it is being controlled in that area and limited to the area. Now, let us suppose that by installing USDs you are eliminating the flex. As with any system, the next weakest link is now the source of potential trouble. If the steering head, and chassis joint is not strong enough, the breaking forces will now try to flex the weakest part, i.e. the steering head. When the steering head flexes, the whole of the front assembly becomes unstable. An uncontrolled resonance develops which affects handling under breaking.

This is one scenario. There are plenty of other effects that can happen. This a extremely vast subject.

For those interested in understanding chassis and suspension I would recommend the book 'Motorcycle Handling & Chassis Design - the art & science' by Tony Foale