darth_lucifer

Thats a fantastic writeup sir,it was badly needed

Small trips before long trips for compatibility.Preferably 2-3 day trips to know the person accompanying you better.

Its the other guys ride too.He has spent as much time/money in it and planned for it.It is his vacation too.Respect him.If you cant do that, the problem is more likely with "you" than with "him".

Someone who is good rider and wont ride below 90 on highways,can ride at 20 kmph in mountains and on non-valley sides of road if he is acrophobic(seen that)Every person has his/her strengths and weak points.

At times you do 1000+kms per day ride and at times struggle to cover 100 kms maybe less by end of day.Its part of touring.Never extrapolate time and distance and keep your plans rigid.

If you are hellbent on discipline and riding fast participate in rally not a group ride.Dont push the other rider out of his comfort zone.

TRPs apart,bashing others in your triplog on public forum seriously show your low maturity levels.

If you were riding on long tour(say leh)with someone who is non compatible,its "your fault" that you cant tolerate him/her/rest of group and "you" are to blame.Getting a GPS,bunch of maps doesnt make you a good planner if you have missed the 'key' component of 'compatible wingmen'.

Howsoever he/rest of gang maybe,when you are riding as a group,"Leave no man behind"

Makky

Brilliant OF sir! Hats off to you for your thoughts.
Your words speaks of your chararcter!

trustvishwas

This post seems aimed solely at me so taking pains to explain something.

1. Small trips before long trips is an absolute requirement. The person who is riding with you has to join at least one. If he refuses to do so to preserve his bike's condition (in spite of requests by many other senior members), how can I do it?

2. The plans were never rigid. Plans are to give us an idea of what we wish to achieve on the day. eg. (a) We stopped 60 km before pathankot which was our scheduled stop due to rains. (b) we spent one extra day in srinagar waiting for other group to reach (c) we cut our ride short in Drass due to rains and cold.

3. I am not hellbent on discipline. What gave you this idea?

4. I did not ride fast on the whole tour. I was riding a FZ which had the lowest power and in addition, it was a borrowed bike. So I had to take maximum care of the bike. If you call riding at 80 kmph on Delhi Chandigad Highway, then, yes I am guilty.

5. I never pushed anyone out of his comfort zone. I never forced anyone to ride at speed at which the rider was uncomfortable.

1. Can you please point out the bashing others part in my triplog? If pulling someone's leg lightly is called bashing and it is offensive to all, I will delete my complete thread. Please let me know. I don't need to your opinion about my maturity level.

You did not mention about the parts where I had made fun about myself also. Or is self bashing permitted on public forum and shows high maturity level?

2. What gave you an idea that i was not able to tolerate the rider with me? We rode back together, I took pains at every water junction to walk ahead of the whole group to identify proper crossing, I even went to his house in Delhi to stay on the last day.

3. I completely agree that getting a GPS,bunch of maps doesnt make anyone a good planner. What gave you an idea that I thought myself as a good planner? Can you please point out where I have written it? Also if you take pains to read the Leh Teerth thread from end to end, you will find out the truth.

4. When you say, leave no man behind, do you mean to imply that I left someone behind? Where and when? You can directly ask my riding partners and get your confirmation.

People bashing may be fun but there needs to be some truth in what you say. If you take trouble to read linked post in my thread - My first ride ever - Khardung La – 18380 ft. Riding to the World’s Highest Motorabl , you will find out that Oldfox had pointed out this thread to me and I had replied politely to him since I agree with most of the issues raised by him. Just bashing someone for the sake of bashing without knowing all the facts is immature behaviour.

Also if you feel that is me bashing you, I am willing to delete this post.

__________________
Check out my travelogue - Ladakh Ride 2010

Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience.

darth_lucifer

^^

Vishwas no offence meant to you.Plz dont take it personally.

I myself have faced such things and had started out this thread on a different forum few years back

tour member's attitude talk - India Travel Forum, BCMTouring

Didnt want to post link to other forums over here.Whatever I posted was the gist of the 'that' discussion.Hope you get the point.

trustvishwas

Yup. I understand. No offense meant or taken.

__________________
Check out my travelogue - Ladakh Ride 2010

Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience.

shadez

OF: good one... again! and +1 with Rocky's quote.
this ones funny btw: 'It usually is perceived more as entertainment than anything else'.

a random non-Leh thought: i see less of the 'break-free' hand signals being used in group riding. i mean, empty highway stretches and likewise, its refreshing(for some) to break out of the group, ride your way for sometime, and then get back with the group. just a thought...

and though group ride is great, for the time and money spent on big rides, if dissatisfied, break free, setup next meetup time and place, and ride on... biking is all about the rider and his GF(bike!); ride free; live life - 'live' the ride. even if unhappy with the group, dont loose the biking spirit is what i say.

my 2 pncs...
peace!

__________________
BIKER ...the thrill and sense of self-fulfilment is obtained from living a little dangerously!

animeher

While I agree partially to OF's post, to me it is not fair that for being politically correct, good riders need to suffer to the moods and whims of others. I learnt a lot from Vishwas's experience, enough to plan my future rides. What's with not calling spade a spade? I haven't done a group ride ever, because frankly I don't think I can fit in a group. I rode with friends, but that too was never restricted, we just started and reached at the same time, with full middle journey on our own.

Some of Vishwas's experiences as posted were so horrifying, even though he laughs at them, from day 1 to last day, I am not sure whether I have the mental ability to endure that. In heart, I appreciated him for enduring all the things and taking them very lightly. And here a thread starts about how people should maturely behave?! I have read some very beautiful articles from Old Fox, and respect him as a writer. But this post educates the message carriers, that don't publish full information, inform only the goody goody things, and people will be happy.

"Never has the washing of dirty linen in public been educative for anyone. " I object, I learned a few things.

Now I bet the supporters will say 'don't take personally'. Don't be so politically correct, name the people.

aargee

Ani - Well, let me try pointing few lines that're very clear from OF's sirs post, that could help us clarifying things better as well as lead to healthy debate. Just check the following lines...

Please note the above lines are generalized ones & not intended to any good/bad/mature/newbie/racer/tourer/young/old riders. It simply is GENERAL GROUND RULE to follow before any group rides.

Consider this, if you were running a school & happen to see one student who likes to study only between 8:30 AM to 3:30PM instead of the regular school hours 9 AM to 4 PM; adding spice, say, he's "THE GENIUS"; as a member in the management, would you agree to it? How would you percieve the situation?

Let me give a real time incident that happened. Before the TSG2G (Tri State Get Together) at Yercaud, we guys from Chennai had 2 pre-rides arranged for all the newbies & experienced riders for 2 weekends before the TSG2G. Trust me, most of us made mistakes in the first ride & all of us learned in no time; during the second ride, most of us were already familiar with rules to follow, everyone sticked to the rules & trust me, when we returned back, we rode back at very good speed & we could all feel the sync. Ofcourse, there were people who couldn't catch up with certain members, however, all of us knew where to catch up & we also knew how to catch up with them. During the TSG2G ride, we were about 19 guys & every single soul enjoyed the rides be it fast or slow group. I feel this is what OF sir was communicating in his post.

The idea what OF sir says is simple; just set the ground rules in a group ride as what's your ability & what you cannot; it always not necessary that the group disagrees to one individual.

Imagine an individual rides slow in a group & he has a concern on it; the individual could sweep & the fast group could ride forward & wait at pre decided location & wait for the sweep.

If the above couldn't make sense to you or if you've understood & that is not what you intended, pls pen down your thoughts; lets take a healthy debate on this. I'm sure there will be many people.

__________________
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind - Dr Seuss

animeher

I do not have any objection to Old Fox's observations about group riding. Rather, as I have no experience of group rides, I completely trust yours and Old Fox's observations, and should I need to ride in a group in future, I will definitely remember them. My objection is to present only the one sided picture of happy ride, and hiding the ugly sides. Why so aversion to pointing mistakes? We learn by mistakes only. I am not condemning any particular biker, infact I noted while reading Vishwas's log, that I too have some of the traits due to which the group suffered, and I will definitely keep in mind to ride with similar people only, should the time and need arise, as I don't want anyone else suffer because of me.

Therefore, my objection is not to the points related to group riding, but related to conveying the message in public. Reporting the events as happened is the spice that makes the bland triplog a story. If not for these details, what is a log but a time line of events? If we are suppressing all the hot, sour, bitter, salty tastes, and allow only sweet taste to be written, it will be a Karan Johar film with heavy diabetic sweetness!

Though some logs tend to be too hot.... like Kolhapuri dishes

EDIT: About the school, if the boy studies at half an hour difference, it's ok. But what if he studies only from 4pm to 8pm, and the rest of the times disrupts class?

satyenpoojary

Well, just to clarify especially on Vishwas thread
Yhe thread hardly has 10% account of what all could have been better managed. I was a part of the original plan, and then slowly it evolved and eventually evolved without me! but I still know a lot of things about the planning and preparation.

To summarize the whole issue in a few lines
1) Vishwas was the MOST planned and prepared rider for the trip from the Pune side, like he said it was his 'dream come true' thing
2) Alankar was preparing well for the ride... he even did a pre endurance testing ride!
3) SpyD had a lot of variables in his plans but rest assured he has clocked enough KMs to manage this tour
4) Rest all of them had some issues or others, be it finance or time or anything. Not saying that any of them were not 'deserving' for the ride! But yes there were issues and then there was even laziness.


When point 4 threatens point 1, it will always create what everyone here said "compatibility issues"

Why should someone who prepared for the ride suffer because some one else chose to be to callous about everything?

Trust me, there are still a lot of smaller issues which are not even posted on that thread! What was posted was purely in form of banter!
Rest assured we could also see some MotorBreath bashing on the thread ! but the way he will react to it would be definitely different from the way Inder has reacted\responded to it!

Vishwas: Please continue the trip log! I have a long day at office to kill! This time please avoid "writing anything which you think will offend Inder"

lol - I hope that isnt "everything!"

The fact remains, all of you went for the ride, had fun and came back... you dont have anything to prove to anyone... so no point in making a joke if the person is not willing to take the joke sportingly! Chillax and lets ride together again soon!

__________________
Super CommuTOURer™ - Your Biggest Critic, is usually your Biggest fan!

.: Facebook :.|.: iTweet :.|*Do Not Click!*|.: Old Blog :.

#Give thy opinion, write em, dont throw em
#Everyone errs, accept it, defending/cribbing about it only makes it worse
#Dont defend a manufacturer as if you work for them
#Write. Think. If relevant hit submit. If not hit yourself
#Be kind in your choice of words, you never know who would make you gulp em
™ Satyen Poojary