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Push rods Vs Spring Valve

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  • Push rods Vs Spring Valve

    This is a push rod based engine animation

    And this one is for spring valve

    My understanding goes that...
    Push rods were older technology, makes lots of sounds, too much mechanical movement & parts involved, lot more maintenance required, probably not efficient as spring valves & probably the ones that yielded to the spring valve technology.

    Why do some engines still use push-rod technology if they aren't effecient? What is it that makes push rods more special?

    Pls help me break the myths. Tks.
    Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
    Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
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  • #2
    Thread Approved
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    • #3
      I guess thats because the push rods are conneted to camshaft which moves the rods and hence the valves operate,how cam you operate the spring operated valve system? And moreover there are springs in the valve tappet settings,so basically they are equal.
      Speak Less,Speak Wise!

      Sarcasm is my automatic response to stupidity.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by haxor View Post
        so basically they are equal.
        WHAAAAT???
        Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
        Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
        ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

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        • #5
          Who needs these vids after a first hand session with you?
          Smoke rubber,not tobacco.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RanjithMN View Post
            Who needs these vids after a first hand session with you?
            Ranjith...trust me, I'm still learning!!! And I'm thought someone will help me with the flow. Its been lying here for quite sometime unanswered!!!
            Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
            Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
            ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

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            • #7
              Well one thing I remember is that due to the mass of the long pushrods, high rpm operation is difficult. This problem was solved somewhat with the spring valves.

              Harley uses pushrods in its engines, maybe the VRod is an exception. I think they use pushrods because their engines remain unchanged from years ago.

              The wikipedia page has some advantages:
              Overhead valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
              200 | 300 | 1200 BOXER

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              • #8
                I guess the main advantage will probably be that you can control the valves in a V configurated engine with a single cam.

                The spring valve means that each cylinder head would need its own cam.
                If you had a V engine then you would need 2 cams.
                One in each cylinder head.
                But a single cam in the center with pushrods can control all the valves.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tanay View Post
                  This problem was solved somewhat with the spring valves.
                  That is my point!!! If spring valves are effecient, then why do HD & RE (these are what I can recall now) still use the old push rod technology?

                  Originally posted by vikram kumar View Post
                  you can control the valves in a V configurated engine with a single cam.
                  Not necessarily a V config; Old Triumph's had parallel twin & uses push rods.

                  Originally posted by vikram kumar View Post
                  The spring valve means that each cylinder head would need its own cam.
                  If you had a V engine then you would need 2 cams.
                  One in each cylinder head.
                  The old Honda CB650 had a inline 4 with SOHC. Which means multiple cylinders & DOHC are independent.

                  Originally posted by vikram kumar View Post
                  But a single cam in the center with pushrods can control all the valves.
                  Hope you meant a single CAMSHAFT mounted with multiple CAMS.
                  Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                  Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
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                  • #10
                    I was about to post "They dont change it because it was being used since ages and they were too lazy for a redesign"

                    But then I decided to give it a thought... and found this:

                    2009 Yamaha MT-01

                    2009 Yamaha MT-01 Features:

                    Engine:
                    keeps engine height down for a lower centre of gravity for great handling and ensures more uniform heat dissipation due to absence of a cam chain case.
                    Advice is a form of nostalgia.
                    Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
                      Traditional pushrod valve actuation keeps engine height down for a lower centre of gravity for great handling and ensures more uniform heat dissipation due to absence of a cam chain case.
                      I need to munch on this more to understand in depth; appreciate if you can elaborate in simple English @Antz.biz.

                      But, I'm beginning to make out some real difference & pros for push rods. Tks Antz.biz.
                      Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                      Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
                      ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by aargee View Post
                        I need to munch on this more to understand in depth; appreciate if you can elaborate in simple English @Antz.biz.

                        But, I'm beginning to make out some real difference & pros for push rods. Tks Antz.biz.
                        Ina push rod engine the camshaft will be placed very low in d crank case. this moves the weight downwards Compared to OHC engine.This saves some space in d cylinder head.Also we can place d rest components more compactly, saving some material mass from d head.this also lowers d engine height.the slots for the push rod can be very thin since they don't need to be adjusted like the cam chain.So nothin like tension adjustin provisions in d cylinder.This reduces the cylinder wall thickness at the slot in push rod engine than d OHC . Reduced thickness and surface area inside slot ensures better heat disipation from cylinder surface and coolant jackets.

                        Hope u got a vague idea about it.

                        The thing with pushrod engine is the rod tends to buckle if too long and had to be made thick to prevent it.This increases the valvetrain mass and hence the inertial effects comes in at an early rpm. That is why all the pushrod engines are low reving.
                        One of the main reason tat HD and RE not upgrading their engines from pushrod engines is that, they are classics and it's their individuality.It is this individuality that a biker expect from these bikes and others respect. Simply
                        THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THEIR MAJORITY CUSTOMERS

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                        • #13
                          Nice points Nithin
                          THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THEIR MAJORITY CUSTOMERS
                          Triumph Bonneville?
                          Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                          Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
                          ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by aargee View Post
                            Not necessarily a V config; Old Triumph's had parallel twin & uses push rods.
                            I meant that you can also do that.
                            As in an additional feature.

                            Originally posted by aargee View Post
                            Hope you meant a single CAMSHAFT mounted with multiple CAMS.
                            Yeah my bad.
                            I meant a single camshaft.
                            MY RACING CAR BUILD
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                            Team website
                            http://www.theacceleracers.com/home

                            Report here
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                            • #15
                              I talked to 2 mechancal engineers about this.. they have to say that Push rods are cheaper to implement instead of OHC but suitable for only low revving engines. So, push rods are used wherever the application is in a slow revving engine(RE / Harley / 2009 MT01).

                              In high revving engines, Push rods are subjected to higher stresses and fatigue whhich can lead to mechanical rear of the push rod leading to mismatched timings.

                              The reason Harley and RE still use push rods instead of OHC is because high RPMs re not involved, the cost savings in material and cooling outweighs the benefits of OHC. Helps these engines run cooler(as Nithin explained) and hence sustainable with just air cooling.

                              Some comparisons here... SOHC vs DOHC vs Pushrod Engines: Camshaft Issues

                              P.S.: The name is antz.bin not antz.biz
                              Last edited by antz.bin; 05-29-2011, 01:14 AM.
                              Advice is a form of nostalgia.
                              Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

                              Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

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