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**sunilg** · 04-03-2012, 04:15 PM

Discussion approved.

**princesirohi** · 04-03-2012, 04:55 PM

Shifting at redline is definitely not recomended for daily riding, unless you consider roads (street/highway) as motogp tracks.
shifting at redline is done when you are trying to extract top speed out of your bike.
if you have a habit of doing vroom vroom i.e. wanna be quickest of the traffic lights, you can shift somewhere between the RPM's at which maximum power and torque is produced.
another approach can be shift at 1000-1500 RPM above your max. torque point, so that after shifting your RPM needle is hovering around max torque point, so you get good roll-on acceleration.
now what is advisable and good, both for you and your bike- shift at a point when your bike starts to howl and you feel the engine is getting too strained and most importantly the rate of acceleration starts to drop= means time to upshift.

**rharish90** · 04-03-2012, 05:04 PM

+1 to the above. Plus some more from my side.

- Red lining for upshift is not for every bike. You cannot do it on an enfield while you can do it on the R15. Forget it on the commuters.
- Red lining usually strains the engine. So a greater quality of parts and build is needed to ensure things don't mess up. Abroad, people do this on higher capacity bikes with better build quality. This is not the case with Indian ones.

**ashwinprakas** · 04-03-2012, 05:37 PM

I ride a ZMA and normally upshift from 1st at round 3~4K rpm. Was wondering if there was any problem it I do it at 8k. And I dont mean at an aggressive phase, but instead gradually.

The reason I asked pertaining to the above scenereo was that I've seen foreigners ride Indian bike's casually, and starting from 1st gear they upshift only at redline. And when enquired they assured its ok since the rev limiter protects the engine from blowing out. So was confused whether the same is applicable for Indian bikes, or exclusive to SBK's.

**sayank10** · 04-03-2012, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

I ride a ZMA and normally upshift from 1st at round 3~4K rpm. Was wondering if there was any problem it I do it at 8k. And I dont mean at an aggressive phase, but instead gradually.
.

upshift at redline to achieve more top whack,less mileage,more strain on the engine.
for street drags a launch at 5000 rpm will do.
do upshift at higher rpm s in rev happy bikes.

**w4rrior** · 04-03-2012, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by sayank10 View Post

upshift at redline to achieve more top whack,less mileage,more strain on the engine.
for street drags a launch at 5000 rpm will do.
do upshift at higher rpm s in rev happy bikes.

slightly OT: Which one is better for drag races? Shifting at torque curve or at max hp?

**princesirohi** · 04-03-2012, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

I ride a ZMA and normally upshift from 1st at round 3~4K rpm. Was wondering if there was any problem it I do it at 8k. And I dont mean at an aggressive phase, but instead gradually.

The reason I asked pertaining to the above scenereo was that I've seen foreigners ride Indian bike's casually, and starting from 1st gear they upshift only at redline. And when enquired they assured its ok since the rev limiter protects the engine from blowing out. So was confused whether the same is applicable for Indian bikes, or exclusive to SBK's.

upshift at 8000 RPM from 1st gear to 2nd is not recomended in ZMA. you can try max. 5000-6500 RPM, above that i doubt that you will gain anything except sound vroooooom, and will unneccessarily strain the engine.

another thing, not all bikes are equipped with a rev limiter.

its not only about SBK's, its the character of the bike, a rev happy bike that produces peak torque and power at much higher RPM, will be happy to shift at redline and in fact it will give you better accelaration.

BUT, a bike that produces max. power and max. torque at much lower RPM's will not give you much performance once you go past max. torque and max. power RPM.

**abhimanyu31** · 04-03-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

Normally I upshift at 4~6K in every gear, and been happy with it till now. But after browsing through some international biking forums, I came to understand that the riders abroad shift at redline, even while doing casual runs. So wanted to inquire whether the same is applicable for our indian rides, or not. I've already came to understand that the higher we rev the more carbon deposits we burn, and in a way thats good, but just wanted to get some more info on the other pros and cons of doing it.
Thanks In Advance.

Here is a good article on shifting at the right rpm (also know as shift points) to get maximum acceleration Shift Points - Sport Rider

**Eshan-P180** · 04-03-2012, 07:36 PM

Thats a good article but i doubt it can be used for Indian bikes... The reason being the make is completely different...
We are talking about desi Pulsars, Hunks, CBZ, karizma and all....even Fazer or Fz 16 for the fact. These bikes aint got any fancy electronic which can control the throttle responses or adjust high end flow of torque which will give results in nano seconds...

As a matter of fact regarding the topic today afternoon itself i was told that engaging at peak rpm will help in
1) Quick accelaration
2) Top end

but my mind resists to understand this logic because when redlining I can easily do 120kmph speeds on my Pulsar 180 UG-IV. But when i change at peak rpm which is 6500 the bike kinda feels slow, i mean it does reach 115kmph speeds but takes a hell lot of time, and if i wish to go above the above mentioned speeds, its impossible...

So any conclusion on that???

**sayank10** · 04-03-2012, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Eshan-P180 View Post

As a matter of fact regarding the topic today afternoon itself i was told that engaging at peak rpm will help in
1) Quick accelaration
2) Top end

i don't know if i am correct but i guess when you shift at peak rpm of torque you get better pick-up and when you shift at peak rpm of power you get better top end.

**sayank10** · 04-03-2012, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by w4rrior View Post

slightly OT: Which one is better for drag races? Shifting at torque curve or at max hp?

drag is more about acceleration than top speed so launch at peak rpm of torque is more helpful.

**abhimanyu31** · 04-03-2012, 07:56 PM

^^^ @Eshan-P180: Respectfully disagree... a Internal Combustion Engine is a Internal Combustion Engine. All bike engines basically work on the same principle, there is nothing like a 'desi' bikes' or 'vedesi' bikes. Yes, bikes can be tuned to make power within a certain power band; it can be peaky or have a broad power band, it can make its power within first few thousand rpm or make it in very high rpm, but the laws of physics are universal to all of them. The words, torque, power, gearing, radius are universally applicable.

The formula given in the article is applicable to all bikes, desi or vedesi.

**Eshan-P180** · 04-03-2012, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

^^^ Respectfully disagree... a Internal Combustion Engine is a Internal Combustion Engine. All bike engines basically work on the same principle, there is nothing like a 'desi' bikes' or 'vedesi' bikes. Yes, bikes can be tuned to make power within a certain power band; it can be peaky or have a broad power band, it can make its power within first few thousand rpm or make it in very high rpm, but the laws of physics are universal to all of them. The words, torque, power, gearing, radius are universally applicable.

The formula given in the article is applicable to all bikes, desi or vedesi.

How about those bikes which have traction control or perform according to riding modes... Iam so sure the difference would surely been seen!!!
This is completely absent in our bikes out here... I hope you get what iam stating here...
I Repeat again, the review which you submitted is perfect for knowing the answer to the thread question but is not apt here because the technology used is different for the bikes mentioned in the review and out here. I completely agree that internal combustion engines perform the same depending upon the compression ratio but what we are looking for is different in the same plate...

**abhimanyu31** · 04-03-2012, 08:11 PM

^^^ traction control is electronically (there are other methods including mechanical) controlling for wheel spin, it has nothing to do with how the engine makes power. It only comes into play when the system senses wheel spin. Switch off the traction control and you have the baseline power band of the engine. Even if traction control is used, the bike still make power and torque. Put it on a dyno and you will have power chart of the output, which will give you power characteristics of the bike, thus allowing you to calculate the shift points for the said traction control mode.

Why is the concept of shift points so confusing that you feel its not applicable to certain bikes?

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