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Pulsar 200NS Vs Duke 200

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  • Rohan200ns
    replied
    Originally posted by payeng View Post
    Please ponder why "so many" find your posts offensive

    least bothered .. its because i dont give out diplomatic answers .. my comments are direct ..
    Last edited by Rohan200ns; 07-28-2012, 09:29 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rohan200ns
    replied
    Originally posted by Ponnanna1 View Post
    Poor Rohan from the fry pan to the fire... I have been following both the duke & 200Ns updates on a regular basis

    All I can say is, can we Imagine a Duke at Rs 1 Lakh price tag with all these features..styling,FE inverted forks.amazing customer service..rem all these come at a cost..
    Secondly if pulsars were not good as a product..then Bajaj wldnt have been so successful in the last 10 years....

    For me as a customer..i want a bike that delivers at the end of the day...hightech, lowtech, midtech..doesnt matter...should perform shld last and shld be reliable .. we call can find plenty examples for bikes tat have been successful and failures with hightech, lowtech, midtech..etc
    well ,, that is your view and requirement.. why should i be bothered.. similarly people would do the same to my post if they didn't want to bicker like kids..

    Leave a comment:


  • Samarth 619
    replied
    Originally posted by The Mountain View Post
    If we strip away all the extraneous info there, your basic thesis is that the triple plug arrangement essentially has the alleged single benefit of improving emissions. If you're honestly saying that Bajaj can't get an even burn in a combustion chamber with a smaller diameter than a shot glass without resorting to the ridiculous solution of three spark sources, especially in a low-compression combustion chamber where you won't have a convoluted piston crown to have to work around, I'm left with no conclusion other than they have crap engineers. They could just as easily have accomplished that with twin plugs, were it warranted, or firing a single plug a second time during the exhaust to eliminate any unburnt fuel. However, as I also pointed out, it's just as likely to be a marketing gimmick (especially since there's another Indian manufacturer that already has a twin-plug bike). The fact that no other manufacturer has ever needed to resort to that solution is proof enough.

    India isn't the only country where motorcycles need to have both low-end torque and top-end horsepower. That's a constant pretty much everywhere in the world, as a consequence of the way motorcycles have to be ridden (slow in the corners, then quick acceleration back up on the straights). A good example is the older Yamaha Genesis motors, which had 5 valves, requiring a piston crown that had so many indentations it looked like a golf ball (and thus a combustion chamber with many convolutions and pockets), and yet they managed with a single spark plug. My own GSXR1100s both had single plugs, despite being carbureted and producing far more horsepower per litre than the NS200 (and with wider combustion chambers to boot). Before you protest that those are multicylinder bikes, keep in mind that modern off-road bikes need that spread of power too, and none need a three-plug head to achieve efficient power production, even from 125cc motors.

    The reality is that Bajaj has to do something to make the NS200 stand out, since it would otherwise be eclipsed by the Duke's shadow. With today's computer modeling, creating a 3-plug head is not the challenge it would have been even 5 or 10 years ago, especially since much of the final work can be done with milling machines rather than requiring the casting to be unusually complicated. No doubt Bajaj felt the extra cost of the design would be recovered through sales, since the NS is otherwise a relatively unremarkable motorcycle.
    Crap engineers?

    First of all, whenever Bajaj mentioned multiple spark plugs they didn't focus on performance, so where did this "accelerating out of the corner" talk come from?
    From the Service manual, let me quote what they claim for 2 spark plugs: "The end results are low emissions, good fuel economy and good driveability." And, I'm myself confused what driveability exactly is, but its definitely not performance...


    The only way to find how effective DTSi is to compare HAVES with HAVE NOTS:-->
    Flame had 2 sparks once, and later it was replaced by a single spark. And then it lost some of its highway mileage... Why?

    And your assumption about Bajaj engineers not capable of getting an even burn is based on what fact/ source?
    How did the same "crap" engineers get Platina, Sapphire, CT100 and other products right? They all had single sparks and they performed good and gave good mileage too.

    Talking about imported bikes only, do some BMW's have twin sparks? I think they have. You criticized Triple spark saying that the engineers had no choice, but would you mind actually telling Triple Spark's actual demerits for the end user?

    You should not call any engineer "crap" unless you personally know them. Buddy, its just not the politeness level one expects. Hope you understand.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ponnanna1
    replied
    Originally posted by Rohan200ns View Post
    my comments were never personal .. it was only about the machine .. i cant help it if someone want to take it personally and give out revolting replies...

    Poor Rohan from the fry pan to the fire... I have been following both the duke & 200Ns updates on a regular basis

    All I can say is, can we Imagine a Duke at Rs 1 Lakh price tag with all these features..styling,FE inverted forks.amazing customer service..rem all these come at a cost..
    Secondly if pulsars were not good as a product..then Bajaj wldnt have been so successful in the last 10 years....

    For me as a customer..i want a bike that delivers at the end of the day...hightech, lowtech, midtech..doesnt matter...should perform shld last and shld be reliable .. we call can find plenty examples for bikes tat have been successful and failures with hightech, lowtech, midtech..etc

    Leave a comment:


  • payeng
    replied
    OT:

    Originally posted by Rohan200ns View Post
    even i find some posts in a similar way when they are against me .. i wisely choose to ignore them as it makes no difference ..it depends on mentality of a person ..
    Please ponder why "so many" find your posts offensive


    Leave a comment:


  • payeng
    replied
    Originally posted by maverick1 View Post
    I dont know what Data logged result will display but in feel 220 feels clearly faster as well as powerful then 200Ns so the 20cc deficit is not getting negated by supposedly better combustion hence more power by triple spark tech.
    The peak Power and Peak Torque for the P220 comes in much earlier than the P200NS, which revs all the way to 9,500 rpm for its peak power and 8,000 rpm for its peak torque. Rev both bikes (P220 and P200NS) side by side till 10,000 rpm and everything will become crystal clear which one "feels" powerful and which "actually is" more powerful.

    The 200 Duke is high revving too.. but then it also has an aggressive short gearing.


    Originally posted by maverick1 View Post
    Actually i took two test ride and went till almost 100km/hr on pulsar 200ns and still was not able to fathom where that 23.5 bhp go? it felt certainly less powerful then the current 220 .
    Please do take test ride of the Ninja 250R as well.. You will be similarly surprised as to "where did those 33 Ps go..??" Till you notice the speedo, which will be showing 140 kmph..!! And of course will be similarly feeling "less powerful" than the P220.


    Originally posted by Rohan200ns View Post
    my comments were never personal .. it was only about the machine .. i cant help it if someone want to take it personally and give out revolting replies...
    Whatever.. your posts tend to be exaggerated and over the top.





    Last edited by payeng; 07-27-2012, 06:00 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rohan200ns
    replied
    Originally posted by J K View Post
    But that's not a licence to type anything you've in mind. No offense Rohan bro. Just telling. We all are bike lovers with passion.

    So don't post comments like that.
    my comments were never personal .. it was only about the machine .. i cant help it if someone want to take it personally and give out revolting replies...

    Leave a comment:


  • Rohan200ns
    replied
    Originally posted by Shibadip View Post
    Sometimes, your statement are over the top, and complete baseless.
    @all - I humbly request you to caste a vote in this survey - Best new VFM bike in India
    Originally posted by rx100.7050 View Post
    Hey man... you are really humorous person!! If you aren't then this post actually makes you, well you know what..
    Originally posted by J K View Post
    Hey bro.. you are crossing the limit. Why all this bro ? We don't got you. Don't be like this.

    When I tell reply it'll cross the limit. So

    sorry for OT mods, Rohan200NS is making me to quote.
    guys - why do you take up everything in an offensive way ?? there is no need to ... just type out your views , people might either agree, disagree or ignore it ... simple .. stop behaving like kids

    Leave a comment:


  • J K
    replied
    Originally posted by Rohan200ns
    guys - why do you take up everything in an offensive way ?? there is no need to ... just type out your views , people might either agree, disagree or ignore it ... simple ..
    But that's not a licence to type anything you've in mind. No offense Rohan bro. Just telling. We all are bike lovers with passion.

    So don't post comments like that.

    Leave a comment:


  • J K
    replied
    Originally posted by Rohan200ns View Post
    but then who knows whether all the three spark plugs are working or not .. it might be just one spark plug working and the other two are just for show and marketing gimmick purpose ...no owner is going to peel off the engine and verify the firing of all three spark plugs ..
    Hey bro.. you are crossing the limit. Why all this bro ? We don't got you. Don't be like this.

    When I tell reply it'll cross the limit. So

    sorry for OT mods, Rohan200NS is making me to quote.

    Leave a comment:


  • rx100.7050
    replied
    Originally posted by Rohan200ns View Post
    but then who knows whether all the three spark plugs are working or not .. it might be just one spark plug working and the other two are just for show and marketing gimmick purpose ...no owner is going to peel off the engine and verify the firing of all three spark plugs ..
    Hey man... you are really humorous person!! If you aren't then this post actually makes you, well you know what..

    Leave a comment:


  • Shibadip
    replied
    Originally posted by Rohan200ns View Post
    but then who knows whether all the three spark plugs are working or not .. it might be just one spark plug working and the other two are just for show and marketing gimmick purpose ...no owner is going to peel off the engine and verify the firing of all three spark plugs ..
    Sometimes, your statement are over the top, and complete baseless.


    @all - I humbly request you to caste a vote in this survey - Best new VFM bike in India
    Last edited by Shibadip; 07-27-2012, 05:04 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • sunilyo
    replied
    Originally posted by Rohan200ns View Post
    but then who knows whether all the three spark plugs are working or not .. it might be just one spark plug working and the other two are just for show and marketing gimmick purpose ...no owner is going to peel off the engine and verify the firing of all three spark plugs ..
    if possible just try disconnecting 2 spark plugs and run on one. Then we might know if we are getting the same FE figures and if the bike runs fine.

    Sorry again OT.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rohan200ns
    replied
    Originally posted by maverick1 View Post
    + ++++ 1
    Realy good observation , if you compare pulsar 200ns with pulsar 220 dtsfi , in terms of real tech. only twin spar frame is new that again is courtesy KTM, only thing done by Bajaj which is new is triple vs twin spark and they retrograded from Fi to Carb. I dont know what Data logged result will display but in feel 220 feels clearly faster as well as powerful then 200Ns so the 20cc deficit is not getting negated by supposedly better combustion hence more power by triple spark tech.
    Actually i took two test ride and went till almost 100km/hr on pulsar 200ns and still was not able to fathom where that 23.5 bhp go? it felt certainly less powerful then the current 220 .
    but then who knows whether all the three spark plugs are working or not .. it might be just one spark plug working and the other two are just for show and marketing gimmick purpose ...no owner is going to peel off the engine and verify the firing of all three spark plugs ..

    Leave a comment:


  • maverick1
    replied
    Originally posted by The Mountain View Post
    If we strip away all the extraneous info there, your basic thesis is that the triple plug arrangement essentially has the alleged single benefit of improving emissions. If you're honestly saying that Bajaj can't get an even burn in a combustion chamber with a smaller diameter than a shot glass without resorting to the ridiculous solution of three spark sources, especially in a low-compression combustion chamber where you won't have a convoluted piston crown to have to work around, I'm left with no conclusion other than they have crap engineers. They could just as easily have accomplished that with twin plugs, were it warranted, or firing a single plug a second time during the exhaust to eliminate any unburnt fuel. However, as I also pointed out, it's just as likely to be a marketing gimmick (especially since there's another Indian manufacturer that already has a twin-plug bike). The fact that no other manufacturer has ever needed to resort to that solution is proof enough.

    India isn't the only country where motorcycles need to have both low-end torque and top-end horsepower. That's a constant pretty much everywhere in the world, as a consequence of the way motorcycles have to be ridden (slow in the corners, then quick acceleration back up on the straights). A good example is the older Yamaha Genesis motors, which had 5 valves, requiring a piston crown that had so many indentations it looked like a golf ball (and thus a combustion chamber with many convolutions and pockets), and yet they managed with a single spark plug. My own GSXR1100s both had single plugs, despite being carbureted and producing far more horsepower per litre than the NS200 (and with wider combustion chambers to boot). Before you protest that those are multicylinder bikes, keep in mind that modern off-road bikes need that spread of power too, and none need a three-plug head to achieve efficient power production, even from 125cc motors.

    The reality is that Bajaj has to do something to make the NS200 stand out, since it would otherwise be eclipsed by the Duke's shadow. With today's computer modeling, creating a 3-plug head is not the challenge it would have been even 5 or 10 years ago, especially since much of the final work can be done with milling machines rather than requiring the casting to be unusually complicated. No doubt Bajaj felt the extra cost of the design would be recovered through sales, since the NS is otherwise a relatively unremarkable motorcycle.
    + ++++ 1
    Realy good observation , if you compare pulsar 200ns with pulsar 220 dtsfi , in terms of real tech. only twin spar frame is new that again is courtesy KTM, only thing done by Bajaj which is new is triple vs twin spark and they retrograded from Fi to Carb. I dont know what Data logged result will display but in feel 220 feels clearly faster as well as powerful then 200Ns so the 20cc deficit is not getting negated by supposedly better combustion hence more power by triple spark tech.
    Actually i took two test ride and went till almost 100km/hr on pulsar 200ns and still was not able to fathom where that 23.5 bhp go? it felt certainly less powerful then the current 220 .

    Leave a comment:

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