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Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

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  • Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

    Assumptions:
    1.The rear tyre is loaded with the optimum Air/ Nitrogen pressure.
    2.No links are removed from the chain or No modification is done on the Sprockets.
    3.The RPM’s are usually considered full figures like( 666.666666=667). But in my calculation they are written as obtained like (666.6666666=666.66667)
    4.The manual used is of the same motorcycle to be calculated. The versions like UG3 and UG4, V1.0 and V2.0 are not same.
    5.This calculation will always be error free and accurate as the speed shown in the Tachometer. Huge difference in the RPM will be considered as the Tachometer error.
    6.If the chain sprocket is not of the same vehicle, then the number of teeth in the front and rear sprocket are measured.
    7.The method to calculate the RPM is same for all Motorcycles, but the value varies very much for the Royal Enfield Bullets.
    8.Top gear is the highest gear in the vehicle. And the vehicle is moving with the top gear engaged.Top gear for Pulsar 220 is 5th gear, for Duke is 6th gear for Honda Shine is the 4th gear.
    Basic Calculations( All these data are mentioned in the Manual)
    1.Final Reduction: No of teeth in rear sprocket/ No of teeth in Front sprocket. The value obtained is written upto 4 decimals if available. Varies from 2.0 to 3.5.
    2.Primary Reduction: No of teeth in the Clutch/ No of teeth in the Crank gear. Varies from 3.0 to 4.0
    3.Gear Ratio: They are mentioned in manual for almost all Vehicles except Bajaj. Owners having bajaj bikes please browse in the Internet. The value for the top gear ( highest gear ) is very much essential. It varies around 0.7 to 1.4.
    4.The only tricky job is to find the tyre Circumference. It can be measured using a tailoring tape wound around the Rear tyre or by the method below:
    a) Calculating the tyre diameter:
    Basically all tires have something like this printed on it:
    P315/70R17
    And if we label all the number above like this:
    Type Width / Ratio Radial Rim
    Then the tire diameter formula is as follows:
    Click image for larger version

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    The value obtained will be in inches and is to be converted to metre. It varies from 0.5 to 0.7.
    b) Now we require to calculate the circumference. This can be done as follows. The obtained value is multiplied with π ( 22/7). Now we get the circumference in meter. Please match the value with the tape reading. It will be around 1.4 to 2.2m.
    Now assume a speed of around 80KMPH. At this speed calculate the tyre RPM. This can be done as follows.
    Click image for larger version

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    The value will be around 600 to 700 RPM.
    Now the Tyre RPM for 1KMPH,
    Click image for larger version

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    Now we can easily obtain the Engine RPM from the above data.
    Calculations:
    Click image for larger version

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    By using this method we can calculate the engine RPM at any speed. Some unknown data can also be calculated knowing the Engine RPM.
    The above calculations have been tested in my Pulsar 180 and my friends Honda Unicorn. The values match with the tachometer reading in both bikes. These calculations need a small amount of technical knowledge. This might be a boring article for you. Only mechanical engineers can understand this. A simple calculation for people without technical knowledge has been given below.
    1.Measure the size of the tyre with a measuring tape in meter. Mark a point on the rear tyre. Measure from that point by rotating the wheel until you get the same point again.
    2.Divide 16.66667 with the obtained value. Consider it as X.
    3. Now go for this calculations:
    Click image for larger version

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    For Bikes without Tachometer,
    Click image for larger version

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    Always Remember the value of X*R for your motorcycle. Multiplying this value with speed gives the engine RPM. This method can also be used to calibrate the tachometers for errors.
    Any further queries can be mailed to me.
    Last edited by Jackson Andrade; 08-01-2014, 02:52 PM. Reason: Removed Email ID
    The only time that makes me tension free is when I ride my wheels

  • #2
    Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

    Topic Approved

    Don't post email IDs on a public forum. If anybody wants they will PM you.

    ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

    Originally posted by Jackson Andrade View Post

    a) Calculating the tyre diameter:
    Basically all tires have something like this printed on it:
    P315/70R17
    And if we label all the number above like this:
    Type Width / Ratio Radial Rim
    Then the tire diameter formula is as follows:
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]152576[/ATTACH]
    The value obtained will be in inches and is to be converted to metre. It varies from 0.5 to 0.7.
    Query: In the above formula, say for my 120/80-17 tyre. I will get tyre diameter by doing multiplying 120 * Ratio divided by 1270 and add the diameter of the rim?

    What is the 'ratio' you have mentioned here?
    Biking is not about what you have between your legs, its all about how well you use it!!!!!!!

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    • #3
      Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

      120/80-17. Here 120 is the width, 80 is the Ratio, and 17 is the Rim.
      The actual formula goes like this:
      (((Width x (Ratio/100)) x 2)/ 25.4) + Rim = Tire Diameter
      I have shortened the formula to this:

      Your tire diameter is: (120*80/1270)+17=24.559 inches.
      Converting 24.559 inch in meter becomes 0.6238m
      Hence your Circumference is (22/7)*0.6238= 1.96m.
      ie. At a speed of 80kmph your tyre will be rotating at: (80000/60)/1.96=680.272 RPM
      ie. For a speed of 1kmph, the tyre RPM will be: 8.5034 RPM.

      Now the Eng RPM = 8.5034* Prim Red* Final Red* Top gear ratio.
      I assume the Bike is Pulsar 220, Eng RPM= 8.5034*3.4736*2.5714*0.8888*( at a speed of 100kmph)=6751 RPM
      For pulsar 180, Eng RPM=8.5034*3.4736*2.7857*0.92*(at 100kmph)=7570 RPM

      ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

      For Royal Enfield Bullet/ Electra,
      The Tyre size is 3.25-19, The best suitable tyre size in metric is 100/90. This can be obtained from Tire conversion charts. The diameter will be 26 inch or 0.6604m
      The circumference will be 2.0755m
      For 1kmph, Tyre RPM will be (1000/60)/2.0755= 8.0301RPM
      Assuming 80kmph, Engine RPM= 8.0301*80*2.15*2.533*1= 3498RPM
      The only time that makes me tension free is when I ride my wheels

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

        TYou should have mentioned, "Only for Mechanical Engineers" before starting the thread. Anyways Let me try this method, was looking for something like this.
        Thanks.



        Sent from my GT-S5360 using xBhp Connect mobile app

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        • #5
          Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

          So much Maths, I was so weak in Maths and still

          Don't know about the accuracy, but lots of calculation done bro...
          KTM RC390 - Current
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          • #6
            Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

            Originally posted by Jackson Andrade View Post
            ...
            Now the Eng RPM = 8.5034* Prim Red* Final Red* Top gear ratio.
            I assume the Bike is Pulsar 220, Eng RPM= 8.5034*3.4736*2.5714*0.8888*( at a speed of 100kmph) = 6751 RPM
            For pulsar 180, Eng RPM=8.5034*3.4736*2.7857*0.92*(at 100kmph) = 7570 RPM
            Theoretically correct. Practically are those numbers accurate? I mean, can we have some variance?

            • Tyre pressure, & load on it changes the effective diameter, right? There is no ideal tyre?
            • worn out internal/external sprocket teeth & transmission parts, I'm not sure if these wear affect the final rotations.


            10+2 labs always reminds me of : Physics is always approximations error.

            Originally posted by RSM2852 View Post
            You should have mentioned, "Only for Mechanical Engineers" before starting the thread...
            Maths involved in it is even simpler than 9th grade(CBSE)...
            There is no honest path to prosperity - KoKa
            Useful Resources Over Internet

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            • #7
              Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

              At the end of the article I have mentioned a simple formula for non Engineers

              Sent from my C2104 using xBhp Connect mobile app
              The only time that makes me tension free is when I ride my wheels

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

                Originally posted by Jackson Andrade View Post
                120/80-17. Here 120 is the width, 80 is the Ratio, and 17 is the Rim.
                The actual formula goes like this:
                (((Width x (Ratio/100)) x 2)/ 25.4) + Rim = Tire Diameter
                I have shortened the formula to this:

                Your tire diameter is: (120*80/1270)+17=24.559 inches.
                Converting 24.559 inch in meter becomes 0.6238m
                Hence your Circumference is (22/7)*0.6238= 1.96m.
                ie. At a speed of 80kmph your tyre will be rotating at: (80000/60)/1.96=680.272 RPM
                ie. For a speed of 1kmph, the tyre RPM will be: 8.5034 RPM.

                Now the Eng RPM = 8.5034* Prim Red* Final Red* Top gear ratio.
                I assume the Bike is Pulsar 220, Eng RPM= 8.5034*3.4736*2.5714*0.8888*( at a speed of 100kmph)=6751 RPM
                For pulsar 180, Eng RPM=8.5034*3.4736*2.7857*0.92*(at 100kmph)=7570 RPM
                When we say 120/80-17. That is 120mm width, 80% of 120mm height and 17inch wheels. Here we are using two different units, mm and inches and the final answer is in inches. What am i missing?

                ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

                Originally posted by SparKot View Post
                Theoretically correct. Practically are those numbers accurate? I mean, can we have some variance?


                He has mentioned a certain list of assumptions at the beginning. With the change in those assumptions, the variance will occur. Even a stock tyre will not be of the same size after 10k kms, as a lot of rubber would have worn off, making it smaller and thus throwing the theoretical calculations off track.
                Biking is not about what you have between your legs, its all about how well you use it!!!!!!!

                Give your details here if you want to help your fellow xBhpian stranded in your city

                Touring Blog: Cycling in Mongolia!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ofcourse you are 100% right bro. There is no ideal tyre. Also I have assumed some points you mentioned above. But if you measure the circumference using tape, and if it is 2meter, you would get around 1.96meter with my formula. That means some tyre errors have been included in the formula. 99% i would say that there will be no error. Links broken or worn out doesnot create any differnce unless there is change in teeth count of both sprockets

                  Sent from my C2104 using xBhp Connect mobile app

                  Originally posted by SparKot View Post
                  Theoretically correct. Practically are those numbers accurate? I mean, can we have some variance?

                  • Tyre pressure, & load on it changes the effective diameter, right? There is no ideal tyre?
                  • worn out internal/external sprocket teeth & transmission parts, I'm not sure if these wear affect the final rotations.


                  10+2 labs always reminds me of : Physics is always approximations error.


                  Maths involved in it is even simpler than 9th grade(CBSE)...
                  Haha bro, you are right.In physics, in order to derive a formula, you always assume something and invent a formula. And with that formula you show that the assumptions you made are correct.

                  Sent from my C2104 using xBhp Connect mobile app
                  Last edited by The Monk; 08-01-2014, 06:03 PM. Reason: Consecutive posts. Please use Multiquote
                  The only time that makes me tension free is when I ride my wheels

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

                    Chemistry too...just saying
                    Originally posted by Jackson Andrade
                    Haha bro, you are right.In physics, in order to derive a formula, you always assume something and invent a formula. And with that formula you show that the assumptions you made are correct.

                    Sent from my C2104 using xBhp Connect mobile app

                    youtube link:
                    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB1...ZF550FWAzfYRlw

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                    • #11
                      Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

                      Originally posted by The Monk View Post
                      When we say 120/80-17. That is 120mm width, 80% of 120mm height and 17inch wheels. Here we are using two different units, mm and inches and the final answer is in inches. What am i missing?

                      ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

                      [/LIST]

                      He has mentioned a certain list of assumptions at the beginning. With the change in those assumptions, the variance will occur. Even a stock tyre will not be of the same size after 10k kms, as a lot of rubber would have worn off, making it smaller and thus throwing the theoretical calculations off track.
                      Since rim is in inch, we divide obtained answer with 25.4 ( 1 inch= 25.4 mm) If we multiply 120 with ratio ie 0.8 and 2 ( to get dia else it will be radius) we get 192 mm. This is correct. You can also convert 17 inch to mm ie 431.8. Now we add it with 192. Thus the answer is 623.8mm nothing but 0.6238m.

                      Sent from my C2104 using xBhp Connect mobile app
                      The only time that makes me tension free is when I ride my wheels

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                      • #12
                        Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

                        I always missed Tachometer on scooters, you need it when things start to go wrong.

                        So, these formulae are handy to mug up speed/RPM when either of Tacho/Speedo goes kaput on our motorcycles.

                        Originally posted by Big Daddy
                        Sent from my C2104 using xBhp Connect mobile app
                        any link of that app??
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                        Useful Resources Over Internet

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                        • #13
                          Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

                          Originally posted by SparKot View Post
                          Theoretically correct. Practically are those numbers accurate? I mean, can we have some variance?

                          • Tyre pressure, & load on it changes the effective diameter, right? There is no ideal tyre?
                          • worn out internal/external sprocket teeth & transmission parts, I'm not sure if these wear affect the final rotations.


                          10+2 labs always reminds me of : Physics is always approximations error.


                          Maths involved in it is even simpler than 9th grade(CBSE)...
                          Lol I'm from CBSE and currently studying Mechanical Engineering, I was poooooooooooor at maths but not now. Anyways I tried this method and it works. Gotta calculate it for 130/80 17 size tyre too now.


                          Sent from my GT-S5360 using xBhp Connect mobile app

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

                            Very helpful thread. Answered a lot of questions I had in mind!
                            A bike on the road is worth two in the shed.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Calculations for the Engine RPM with the Vehicle speed Known

                              It is also possible to mechanically detect the failure of the clutch. ie the engine RPM will increase than the desired value. In case we feel Engine has power but the wheels are not rotating upto mark, this method solves the doubt.
                              The only time that makes me tension free is when I ride my wheels

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