I had my tvs apache rtr fi since one and a half years back, to be quite frank i have not faced even one single problem from my fi system till date: pls note that it hasnt been touched by any tvs officials from the date of purchase till this very instant. Apart from one or two complaints with the wiring no problem has been from my bike.
One downside to fuel injection bikes that i see is that our mechanics are very backward in technological advances and almost 99% know nothing about fi systems. I once even called the tvs service center guys and asked them if they could increase the amount of petrol flow or anything that would result in power increase and they said that something in my bikes fi system was fixed and no one can alter it. Duh!!
Still managed to increase the power though

how is this possible??? can u increase the fuel flow settings???? i mean its all fixed from the very first right???? the air fow and the air fuel ratio and all????

how does the cubic capacity affect the power out put of the engine????? i hjave seen the r 125 only 125 cc but can lierally take over the p180 for sure!!! and same with the r15!! can beat the karizma even if its 150 cc is this due to the fi tech???

been going through the thread... very informative... thank you for starting it up!

I remember @rahuldevnath saying it wont start incase a battery totally dies (to my understanding)... I mean.. dead battery... incase of a weak battery, the Fi unit gets powered up when push started. Once the engine starts then the magneto supplies enough power to run the fuel pump.

^^ buddy, you found a dead thread and ...... tried to push start it. he he ...

i have a carbureted bike and it has done more than a lakh kilometer (P150), never faced a carb failure, yes some components like slide, diaphram etc gets worn out over a period of time, but it just slows the throttle response or makes it a bit jerky or makes it sluggish, but it never leaves you stranded, there is no part in a carb which can fail to such an extent that you can't run your bike. so carbs are robust and reliable.

that said, my next bike will most probably be an FI bike, coz it will be easier in a closed loop system to ride at higher altitudes where i intend to tour with my next bike. i dont think FI unit has a high failure rate as compared to carbs, if you speak of clogged injectors, the same can happen with jets in carb. other than this, a dead battery is an FI's only big enemy. maintain it properly. and an FI unit will serve you happily. but yes since it is a high tech thing, it needs to be taken care of properly, like avoid running on low fuel level quite often etc.

Came across this thread by chance, indeed informative.

I recently converted my classic 500 EFI to a carburetor (BS32).
Technically i may have gone backwards, but i think companies like RE needs to catch up with time to introduce such modern technologies on their bikes.

I did 32000 kms with the EFi system and had numerous issues with it. To begin with, the C5 EFI system is open loop, there is no feedback to the ECU after the combustion, thanks to the missing O2 sensor. RE tried fooling customers with different maps, higher heat rated plugs, but not much improvement. My bike was one of the test mules for these changes.
other issues with the FI consisted of jerky throttle response, scary mid-corner hicc-up moments, plugs always dark black with layer of soot, irratic and non uniform idling and many more. Changed 2 throttle body, the injector unit, few sensors, etc, but not much difference. Once i was riding with a group of 35 bullet riders, and my bike refused to start. There were some old experienced riders too in the group, but no one could do anything, and i have to tow the bike in a truck, back to Bangalore. With a carbed bike, there would always be some jugaad possible.

Eventually, i managed to get my bike converted to a carburetor. Had to make quite some changes to achieve this mod, but i am happy with the carburetor on my classic 500. Now, i am control of the bike to a larger extent, and not the ECU. i can play around with carb tuning, jets, intake, exhaust, etc to get what i want from the bike. With carb, the whole system is simplified greatly, and thats what i appreciate.

so in my experience, EFI may be the way forward, but its a complex system with all the sensors, ecu, injector, throttle body, pressurized fuel pump, etc and unless well designed, engineered, and thoroughly tested, it becomes more of a headache. and god-forbid if any of these parts go kaput after the warranty period, they are damn expensive as spares.

My case and experience with Fi is been purely with RE C500 EFI, i have not used any other make Fi tech bikes, to comment on them. But my experience with C5 is not just limited to me, a large number of other riders are facing issues with their Fi C5s, some of them have already shifted to carbs, and some are contemplating the same.

Fuel Injection Vs Carburettor Bikes

Engine Performance

The carburetor and fuel injection performance is mainly due to the amount of air and gasoline that can enter into the engine cylinders. The cylinders contain the pistons and combustion chambers where energy is released from the combustion of gasoline. The carburetor and fuel injection system will both feed fuel and air into the engine.



The Carburetor

The carburetor contains jets that will push the gas into the combustion chambers. The amount of fuel that can flow through these jets depends completely on the amount of air that can be pulled into the carburetor venture. The main issue with obtaining the best performance using a carburetor is that it can't monitor the air to fuel ratio for each individual cylinder. If there was a carburetor for each cylinder then this would not be an issue. So with a carburetor, the best fuel to air ratio for each cylinder is approximated for the best performance. However, carburetors do last longer than fuel injection systems and are favored in motor sports. Carburetors are also much simpler to install than fuel injection systems, because there are no electrical components or return lines to the fuel tank. The carburetor is currently much less expensive than the electronic fuel injection systems.
Fuel Injection Systems

Fuel injection systems are becoming more popular for those wanting the best performance from their engines. There are two different versions of fuel injection - port fuel injection and direct injection. Port fuel injection is the most commonly used and direct fuel injection is the latest developed fuel injection system. This system was designed specifically for four or two stoke engines. The main benefits to using direct injection is that the amount of fuel and air can be perfectly released and then injected into the cylinder according to the engine load conditions. The electronics used in the system will calculate this information and constantly adjust. This type of controlled fuel injection results in a higher power output, greater fuel efficiency and much lower emissions. One of the main issues is that these systems are sophisticated and will cost much more than a carburetor. Installation is more complicated as it uses an electrical component and custom cylinder head configuration.
Which Is Best?

It is fairly obvious that most automobiles will be changing to fuel injection systems due to the lower emissions. However, unless the cost of these systems decreases significantly then there will still be a massive following that will stick to carburetors. When looking at pure horsepower, the fuel injection system only delivers about 10 extra horsepower at peak. It is the ability to constantly be tuning the fuel and air intake for each cylinder that benefits the performance. The fuel injection systems are the best as they will decrease vibration and help to overcome steep grades that are traditional terrain for off-roading. Again, which one is best completely depends on where and how you're driving.


More at : Why fuel injection has replaced carburetors on motorcycles - Common Tread - RevZilla

Re: Fuel Injection Vs Carburettor Bikes

I think going for Fi is better if you are opting for bike which is 200+cc of capacity.

Re: Fuel Injection Vs Carburettor Bikes

It is a misconception that so called "closed" loop systems are better than "open" loop systems. In fact, the open loop is preferred for its simplicity and is generally preferred if emissions & fuel efficiency is at the bottom on the priority list.

The so called "closed" loop system on most bikes is in fact a "semi-closed" loop system. The O2 sensor on most bikes is a "narrow" band sensor. The sensor is designed for checking the "stoichness" of the AFR. Stoichiometric ratios are anything above 14:1 air fuel ratio (a discussion for a different day). The O2 sensor is called "narrow" band because it works with very limited set of 2 values; "null/not null". It checks for a set stoich value and sends a "null/not null" value to the ECU which in turn is programmed to select a fuel value from the fuel table to adjust the fuelling to achieve and maintain the stoich air fuel ratio.

However, the inputs from the O2 sensor are ignored under 2 conditions. Under full load and under load transitions conditions, the ECU will ignore inputs from the O2 sensor and become a "open" loop system. For a true "closed" loop system, a "wide" band sensor is required along with a ECU capable of making use of the multiple values that O2 sensor reads and sends to it.

Now coming to FI systems; No bike maker designs a FI system in house. Most FI systems fitted on the most bikes come from a limited group of companies like Bosch, Delphi, Denso & Magneti Marelli. Throttle bodies are made by companies like Mikuni, Keihin & Bing. Therefore, the quality of FI systems is more or less the same whether it's a 150cc bike or a 1000cc bikes. The problem lays with integration of the system with the bike. The problems that you have described (if accurate), point to poor integration and incomplete testing of the product.

To give you a example of a extremely reliable open loop system; Yamaha R15 V1. The system is so reliable, that it is known to start on first crank after cold night in Leh.

By the way, ECU gives you control over fueling and ignition that is magnitudes better than the control you will have over a carburettor. Yes, it is undeniably simpler than a FI system, however with the right tools a whole new world opens up with FI systems.

fuel injection.. practicality??

I am intented to buy a bike, for which I am confused between full injection and carb

fuel injection are new techs but if any isue happens local mechanics can't repair them... so I would like any pre owners of fi bikes about their experience with maintaining( pricing and waiting period of repairing heard it takes some time) fi bikes

thanks in advance [emoji4]

Re: fuel injection.. practicality??

Same Here. Confused between the RTR 200 Carb and FI. Considering both long term usage and taking it to tough terrain like Leh Ladakh.

Re: fuel injection.. practicality??

FI bikes serves better in mountains.

Re: fuel injection.. practicality??

Brother, I assume that you have read this thread from the start and by now you will have a pretty good idea of the pros and cons of both Fi and Carb.
Let me make this very easy for you. if you live in a place where you easily get clean pure petrol (without any impurities or anything mixed in it), then go for FI eyes closed. It is much modern tech, is environment friendly, gives a very very crisp throttle response, cold starts are not a problem, AFR mixture is automatically adjusted, no need to fiddle with idle screw, no need to worry about turing the reserve tap at the bottom of the tank, no need to upjet or downjet the carb when you go to the mountains and so on.

The only thing that will hurt a FI is impure fuel. Even just be a tiny bit of sand or mud, it will clog the FI over time, and it is damn expensive to replace. I am not talking about any special fuel, just clean and pure petrol will keep you and the FI happy.

Regarding local mechanics can't repair them, true. but the FI never go wrong (All the cars use them and they work just fine). The only bikes whose FI gave problems was the Royal Enfileds.. and to be honest Royal Enfields are not the benchmark for modern technology and reliability. All the other bikes R15, R3, CBR brothers, KTM brothers, Pulsar RS200, Dominar, RTR180, Mojo, Hero Glamour 125FI, all are serving their owners from many years without any problems, so there is no need to worry that it will break down and mech wont be able to repair it. I own a 2014 R15V2 and tour extensively on it without any problem.

Second point that I would like to convey is to keep proper fuel level in the tank. If you are the type of person whose bike contain 20 Rs worth of fuel at any point of time.. FI is not for you. FI requires the fuel pump to be completely submerged in petrol so that no air might enter the fuel line. This means that you have to make a habit of filling up as soon as the low fuel warning starts to blink. I have read that FI doesn't like to go dry as it causes many problems, I am not sure if that is true or not but better safe than be sorry, so I just make sure that I refuel as soon as low fuel starts blinking. It doesn't mean that you will have to keep your fuel tank full all the time, but you should not let is go completely dry.

If these 2 things can be easily taken care of, go for FI eyes closed. Else Carb it is.

Re: fuel injection.. practicality??

thanks for the response bro
you summed up nicely, thats a great help in choosing [emoji4]

Re: Fuel Injection Vs Carburettor Bikes

FI is the future.

I do not like electronics on motorcycles, mechanical devices are always more predictable for me.

But the change will come, and I hope the quality prevails and aids dependability.

Cheers!