Announcement

**The Monk** · 03-08-2015, 11:47 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Discussion Approved

I haven't figured it out yet. As when i have to get off one bike and hop on to another, many times i get confused. In a panic situation upshifting instead of downshifting out of habit and can be downright dangerous!

**abhimanyu31** · 03-09-2015, 12:49 AM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

I don't know if the "all down/ all up" feature can be called cheap, ironically in MotoGP due to advent of all seamless gearboxes, the gear pattern is now all down i.e. N,1,2,3,4,5,6 down.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

**HyperRetard** · 03-09-2015, 07:53 AM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

I don't know if the "all down/ all up" feature can be called cheap, ironically in MotoGP due to advent of all seamless gearboxes, the gear pattern is now all down i.e. N,1,2,3,4,5,6 down.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Actually you are incorrect

"The Gearshift-Pattern Reverser, the latest in a series of High Performance accessories for the S1000RR from BMW Motorrad, inverts the gearbox layout from a ‘one-down five-up’ configuration to a race ‘one-up five-down’ setup."

And this is so because it is easier to downshift when on a bike, without spoiling the airflow too much.

**abhimanyu31** · 03-09-2015, 01:34 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by HyperRetard View Post

Actually you are incorrect

"The Gearshift-Pattern Reverser, the latest in a series of High Performance accessories for the S1000RR from BMW Motorrad, inverts the gearbox layout from a ‘one-down five-up’ configuration to a race ‘one-up five-down’ setup."

And this is so because it is easier to downshift when on a bike, without spoiling the airflow too much.

What is incorrect about my stated fact of fully seamless gearboxes in MotoGp having an all down gear pattern? Nothing you have mentioned above contradicts it.

Are you aware of the fact that before the advent of the full seamless gearboxes (i.e. seamless shifts for upshifts and downshifts) in the regular gearboxes and the semi seamless gearboxes (i.e. seamless shifts for upshifts only and/or having seamless shifts from 2nd to 6th gear only) the gear pattern had the 'N' between the 1st and 2nd gear?

The requirement for full seamless shifts including the 1st gear has dictated the shifting of the gear pattern to ensure that the 'N' is at one end of the gear pattern.

Also your quote on the Gearshift Pattern Reverser accessory offered by BMW; it does not make any changes to the gearbox internals, it simply changes the gearshift pattern by changing the linkages on the gear shift lever. It is a external mod which simply converts the pressing down of the gear lever to translate into upshifts for the gearbox.

**HyperRetard** · 03-09-2015, 02:01 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

What is incorrect about my stated fact of fully seamless gearboxes in MotoGp having an all down gear pattern? Nothing you have mentioned above contradicts it.

Are you aware of the fact that before the advent of the full seamless gearboxes (i.e. seamless shifts for upshifts and downshifts) in the regular gearboxes and the semi seamless gearboxes (i.e. seamless shifts for upshifts only and/or having seamless shifts from 2nd to 6th gear only) the gear pattern had the 'N' between the 1st and 2nd gear?

The requirement for full seamless shifts including the 1st gear has dictated the shifting of the gear pattern to ensure that the 'N' is at one end of the gear pattern.

You said all down, when in reality it is one-up five-down.

Other than that, there's no need to get that offended. I was just trolling.

**abhimanyu31** · 03-09-2015, 02:48 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by HyperRetard View Post

You said all down, when in reality it is one-up five-down.

Other than that, there's no need to get that offended. I was just trolling.

First of all I am not offended. I am simply pointing out a fact and since you have mentioned that I am incorrect I have simply asking where the inconsistency is. Maybe my 'direct to the point' style seems abrupt but then I like talking to the point, so no offence meant

.

Now coming to your point of "one-up five-down"; are you really sure you have the facts straight? Because here is a quote;

"This is connected to the belief that in order to optimise the seamless effect - which sees two gears 'engaged' at the same time - the Honda and latest Yamaha gearboxes have moved neutral from between first and second on the gearshift pattern (1-N-2-3-4-5-6) to the top of the order (N-1-2-3-4-5-6)." - source; MotoGP Feature - PICS: Extra lever on Factory Yamaha MotoGP machine

**TheArcher84** · 03-09-2015, 03:01 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Sorry for this dumb question. Is the gear shifting pattern going to affect the performance of the commute bikes in our country. Or is the 1-N-2-3-4-5 pattern is just for ease of shifting whilst riding.

**abhimanyu31** · 03-09-2015, 03:08 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by TheArcher84 View Post

Sorry for this dumb question. Is the gear shifting pattern going to affect the performance of the commute bikes in our country. Or is the 1-N-2-3-4-5 pattern is just for ease of shifting whilst riding.

Ok, here is a fact of life; For any ride that you undertake, be it on the road or on the race track, the number of upshifts that you will make will be equal to the number of downshifts (possibly 1 less down shift if you can shift down from 2nd gear to N at the end of your ride). Therefore from a mechanical point of view it makes no difference what the gear shift pattern is like, nor does it dictate major design change in a gearbox.

Gearshift patterns are a question of ergonomics. It is purely a matter of personal choice and preference. Mechanically no shift pattern is superior to the other.

**TheArcher84** · 03-09-2015, 03:34 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

Ok, here is a fact of life; For any ride that you undertake, be it on the road or on the race track, the number of upshifts that you will make will be equal to the number of downshifts (possibly 1 less down shift if you can shift down from 2nd gear to N at the end of your ride). Therefore from a mechanical point of view it makes no difference what the gear shift pattern is like, nor does it dictate major design change in a gearbox.

Gearshift patterns are a question of ergonomics. It is purely a matter of personal choice and preference. Mechanically no shift pattern is superior to the other.

So, its purely on the manufacturers view how they want the gear shift pattern, huh.... So be it 'Cheap Bikes' or 'Expensive bikes' ??

**abhimanyu31** · 03-09-2015, 03:44 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by TheArcher84 View Post

So, its purely on the manufacturers view how they want the gear shift pattern, huh.... So be it 'Cheap Bikes' or 'Expensive bikes' ??

Yes. Which is the reason why I said I would not call any particular gear shift pattern cheap based on its being on a cheap or expensive bike. It is a ergonomic issue. I am speculating out here (I could be wrong) but logic would suggest that bikes that are aimed at beginners need to be as simple as possible as they are just starting out. Therefore providing them with an all down or all up gearshift pattern makes it easier for the novice to start off with. He/she does not need to worry about finding the neutral slot as it is at the end of the gear pattern and all that they need to keep in mind is to shift up go one way and shift down go the other way.

**HyperRetard** · 03-09-2015, 04:26 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

Yes. Which is the reason why 1: I said I would not call any particular gear shift pattern cheap based on its being on a cheap or expensive bike. It is a ergonomic issue. 2: I am speculating out here (I could be wrong) but logic would suggest that bikes that are aimed at beginners need to be as simple as possible as they are just starting out. Therefore providing them with an all down or all up gearshift pattern makes it easier for the novice to start off with. He/she does not need to worry about finding the neutral slot as it is at the end of the gear pattern and all that they need to keep in mind is to shift up go one way and shift down go the other way.

If that was for me, in my defence I would like to add that I called "cheap bikes" not cheap gearboxes.

And as for the point #2, I think their honest efforts may become counter-productive because when you want to change bikes, you have to unlearn everything.

**abhimanyu31** · 03-09-2015, 04:33 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by HyperRetard View Post

If that was for me, in my defence I would like to add that I called "cheap bikes" not cheap gearboxes.

And as for the point #2, I think their honest efforts may become counter-productive because when you want to change bikes, you have to unlearn everything.

No, it was not for you. Please take things at face value, I never insinuate anything, whatever I have to say, it is always said upfront. I was simply clarifying what I meant in my first post.

**Deathmate.Zed** · 03-09-2015, 04:42 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Originally posted by HyperRetard View Post

..

And as for the point #2, I think their honest efforts may become counter-productive because when you want to change bikes, you have to unlearn everything.

Assuming abhimanyu's speculation to be true, When a manufacturer makes a commuter bike it will be commuter-friendly. They will not make bikes thinking of the customer's future plans of upgarding to performance oriented machines. So in short, they dont care if their effort is being counter-productive to them. They promised a commuter friendly bike, that's it.

Moving on-topic, Even I feel the reason commuter bikes or 'cheap bikes' (according to the TS) have all down gear shift pattern is the ease of learning.

**HyperRetard** · 03-09-2015, 05:02 PM

Re: Why do cheap bikes *NOT HAVE* the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Well well well, you can go on and on cornering me over the use of the term "cheap", but I fail to understand is that a bad term? Arent they cheap after all?

And Bajaj has gone the whole hog and now its discover 150, both the S and the Faired versions. :facepalm:

Announcement

Why do cheap bikes NOT HAVE the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Why do cheap bikes NOT HAVE the standard 1 Down 3 Up pattern

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment