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Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

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  • Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

    Without prejudice
    While I write this, to say that kicking myself in the shins is an understatement. However, for the entire biking community some things that I learned the hard way, I thought it would be a good idea to share. If this is a post a tad too long which generally happens when I start "posting", my apologies. Also, my grammar could be a little wary because of the medicine course I am under, apologies for that too

    A little over a decade ago, while I was in college, did I dare dream that one fine day I'll get myself a saddle from the house of Harley Davidson. Just out of the cusp of your teen, you dream about such things, and with that I began to make the journey. 10 years, 4 jobs and an sort of an MBA degree later, I thought I had made it and this is year 2014 at Hyderabad. Harley had come to India a few years ago, gone with the CKD route, prices of the bikes were falling and every city, be it Ludhiana, Delhi, Mumbai, even Hyderabad that I went to were having roads shows everywhere. In the 2012 Delhi Auto Expo, I thought Harley had the "coolest" stalls. Loads of customization, rock music, and truckloads of well deserved attitude.
    So, at the beginning of the 4th job, I was making decently well and while my Education loan EMI was taking a significant chunk out, I did not really see any reason why I could not buy an 8 lakh bike. Some initial hiccups later, just a week before my birthday, I decided to gift myself a Denim Black Iron 883. It felt like everything had fallen in place. I had saved just the right amount, I got just the right amount of loan and voila ... 4-5 days later I was riding "my" bike away.
    Life was different after that, the machine was intimidating and it clearly demanding respect. I got asked, like any other, questions such as how much it is for? how much does it "give"? and that occasional rev on the side from a Vin Diesel wannabe on a traffic signal. I ignored them all.

    It is here that the learnings began. The bike that I had got had temporary registration, which was valid for a month. I was so used to seeing vehicles permanently registered from the dealer (UP, Maharashtra, etc. require that) that i realized it a little late that it was I who had to get it done. The agent's number provided by the dealership, he wouldn't turn up even after multiple calls. I tried another one and same result. While I was drowning with work, I didn't realize that unlike UP, RTA offices in Hyderabad stay open on a Saturday and Sunday. So while I was deciding the "weekday" when I should go to the RTA, I did not know that I could go during weekends as well. The workload also meant that even after being a HOG, I was always too tired to go to those awesome Sunday rides. So I was caught in a vicious circle of work life balance.

    Time kept passing by and so passed the validity of my temporary registration. I used to carry papers just in case while commuting. I also came to know that you could actually reserve a certain number via a bidding process which only happens at the Attapur RTA. This was a revenue generator for the Telangana RTA it seems but the flip side is that you can only apply to bid for the number that you want if it is in the list of 1000 numbers released everyday by the RTA on its website. So, the combination of the number that I wanted and a Saturday never worked out until 10 months after the purchase of the bike which was October 2015.

    After following the number list like a hawk and all process sorted for Saturday, I was returning late from the office at 3 AM in the night on the Friday Saturday intervening night after a really long day at work. And just as luck (or Murphy, whichever you want to prefer) would have it, I lost control of my bike, hit the divider and passed out. I woke up about 4 hours later in an ICU with a clot in my brain, fractured face bone and a fractured shoulder (yea, I was wearing my helmet and protective gear). My friends who brought me in said the first thing I had asked after I came to senses was what had happened to the bike. About 12 days later, post a reconstruction surgery and a lot of "interesting conversations" with my mother I got discharged with some pretty strong medicine for my brain (Eptoin, for people who would want to google) and I was taken back to my hometown by my family. It wasn't until another 2 weeks later that I got in a position to register the claim for my bike to Bajaj Allianz.

    And then began the hell hole. Bajaj Allianz found that my bike had a expired temporary registration so they decided they would not honor the claim. The service center guys gave a quote of 6.7 lakhs (which almost 80% of the on road price of the bike) with zero repair and 100% replacement. The discussions with Bajaj Allianz went into a limbo. I kept reaching out to Bajaj Allianz's customer service telling them the temporary registration expiry (or Section 39 and Section 43 of the Motor Vehicle Act) are not part of the terms and conditions in the policy and if it was so fundamental why didn't they just cancel my policy after a month. I received no response on that line, only registered letters asking why I did not get the vehicle registered superscribed with the phrase "without prejudice". Apparently, this phrase is used in such negotiations multiple times by legal teams for corporates because it implies all these letters would become inadmissible as evidence in court in case you want to go legal (which hopefully you may have noticed is with what I started this post with). I raised the complaint with IRDA and Bajaj almost wake up from its slumber and sent me a letter saying my claim had been denied. Right now, I don't even know what "being insured" means

    So I am now involved in
    1) A bitter battle with Bajaj Allianz to get my due claim. I am actually glad that I did not take life or medical insurance from them. However, if I have to go legal I will.
    2) Identify why in hell are the "repair" costs of my bike so high. I saw it, and she's pretty banged up but nowhere that I need to spend 6.7 lakhs to get her up and moving.
    3) Identifying a body shop in Hyderabad which can do the repair work to fix the bike and hopefully find cheaper parts than the quote provided by the authorized service centre

    In a summary here are my learnings from this incidents, especially important for first time buyers
    1) States have different registration laws, some require the dealer to give a you a permanent registration before you take your vehicle out. The others, like Telangana, does not. Please check with the dealer before buying the vehicle. If you can, lose that love for that special number and get that vehicle damn registered. These are costly vehicles and I am sure if you negotiate a little hard the dealer will do it for you. Wait until you get a permanent registration before you get that beloved out of the showroom. If you have a legal might with you then great, take your chances.
    2) The Supreme Court is divided on whether the insurance companies can use the Motor Vehicle Act for their benefit or not. A judgment in 2013 says they cannot, a judgment in 2014 says they can.
    3) Take the insurance company sales pitch with a pinch of salt. Do not assume that the policy is the sole document that will be used in the validity of the claim. I am pretty sure if the claim is big, they will find an obscure clause in the Motor Vehicle Act to reject your claim. I would go by the one who is less desperate in the pitch
    4) Dealers are not of much help in case of disagreement between insurance company and you. They will brush their hands off in case you run into a problem. After all to run business they need that insurance company without which they will not be able to sell the vehicle. Once its sold, you as a customer is just a number check in their revenue targets, done and dusted. Since, you are unlikely to be a repeat customer, the only way they can make more money out of you is through exorbitant "repair" bills
    5) While the choice is yours, do not go with Bajaj Allianz. HDFC Chubb and ICICI Prudential look way better. Bajaj will lure you in with promised of covering electrical and other jazz, do not fall for it. My research on judgments has led me to believe that ICICI Prudential is more sensible when rejecting claims and while there always be grays, Bajaj Allianz has come across to be absolutely ridiculous in customer service.
    6) Insurance is regulated by IRDA and they are of help, they aren't really authorized to penalize the insurance companies like RBI is allowed to do with banks. IRDA has the power to revoke a license but it is unlikely that one case will do it. You should check out their complaint system at http://www.policyholder.gov.in/The_Process.aspx. It is pretty informative
    7) Parts availability with Harley is a big problem and they don't have the ability to repair the vehicle either. Before investing in any premium bike, I think it may be a good idea to check the capability of the workshop as well. I smell Ducati's problems but I sincerely hope I am wrong. The HOG membership is 7k a year and they didn't even send me the package the entire year
    8) Moving vehicles across state, while a problem, means you will have to pay state taxes. They are the lowest in Delhi and the laws also require that they deliver the vehicle to you with complete documentation. You can apply for a refund to Delhi RTA if you move to any other state, as long as you pay the state tax in which you are holding the vehicle. Seems a much easier job than juggling around the laws which are dicey
    9) While at temporary registration, do not take the vehicle outside city limits, apparently it is prohibited as per law. An accident met outside city limits will leave you out of insurance coverage.

    To all the experience forum members, a request for help
    1) Reference to a lawyer who can help me build me a case against Bajaj Allianz
    2) Reference of good body shops in Hyderabad where you have had good experience

    Hope this is of help
    Last edited by rachitjs; 12-29-2015, 02:14 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

    Thread Moved and Approved

    I have moved the thread to the GBD section, since this could happen to anyone and not just a superbike owner. Of course on a superbike, the costs of everything gets escalated.

    But the silver lining is that you are alive and well. Hopefully you will get your insured amount.

    That is why i prefer public sector insurance companies, they might be slow but eventually you get your money. These private companies lure you with awesome offers, but change face when they need to pay out.
    Biking is not about what you have between your legs, its all about how well you use it!!!!!!!

    Give your details here if you want to help your fellow xBhpian stranded in your city

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    • #3
      Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

      While i don't mean to rub salt on your wounds but atleast here in Bombay, the Laws are pretty clear & every person in the buying experience is quite well informed. Here almost every sales guy from the dealer will clearly reject the idea of you taking your bike out of the showroom until it's registered OR in some case they'll be upfront about the fact that any part of Warranty, Damage even manufacturing defect will not be entertained if you drive your bike on Temp Registration.

      Even the insurance guy will be clear in saying no part of the insurance will be covered if the vehicle is driven with a TC - atleast that is what I was told point blank while buying my bike in Jan 2015 & same about a decade ago when I got my first bike. Both times since I wished to take delivery on specific date but was clearly cautioned, wish if the same was the case you'd be saved big time.

      Also here if you are seen with a Temp Number unless you have the showroom delivery receipt of that very day the cops will not let you pass, ie. even if the vehicle is temp registered there's a form which the showroom has to issue which basically is a permission to drive the vehicle from showroom to temple/home only for that very day and that too for a specific time of day, a end time is mentioned there. without that the cops will impound the vehicle & make you pay a heavy fine.

      So I'm just wondering how were you able to drive the vehicle for such a long time? were you not caught?

      Also even from a insurance standpoint, unless you them a permanent number the policy is usually nothing but a covernote! The permanent insurance policy comes in 45days post the initiation along with a full policy number, vehicle engine, chasis & registration number. So without that this is just a lost battle, I'm telling from a known experience of Bombay where my company vehicle was driven from the showroom & it had a accident which damaged bumper, door & glass. Insurance was very clearly denied stating Vehicle should have been transported on a flat-bed, should not have been driven with the TC.
      Ride your Heart out!!!

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      • #4
        Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

        Hope you are doing well now, get well soon.

        In Maharashtra if you are taking out bike from showroom without permanent registration they will not allow the same.
        In case if they do, they will ask you to sign a cover note stating they are not responsible for any damage loss as it is not covered under insurance till you get permanent registration.

        Now last year when i took out a my KTM they did allow me with the cover note, but recently with benellie even checked with KTM they are not letting the bike out of showroom without permanent registration at all.

        Did you sign any such note when you took delivery of Bike ?

        You need to hire a real good lawyer to fight with them,

        OT Note : Bajaj/KTM insurance if not asked explicitly is always bajaj allianz.
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        • #5
          Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

          I am afraid that the facts are completely against you in this case. I can understand that you have been through both physical and metal trauma, however, it is time to take a dispassionate view of issues at hand.

          The first issue & biggest one in this case is that you wear riding around with a expired TC. The fact is that you were riding a unregistered vehicle, which is a illegal activity, irrespective of all that you have mentioned. Hence, had anyone else been hurt in this accident you would have been book under various sections of criminal law. As a matter of fact you could still be booked under various sections of the law. That is how grave the illegal activity you have been involved in. I still don't know how you got your bike back, because if a police case was registered, then the bike should have been impounded.

          The second issue is the insurance company not honoring your claim. Well, to make the whole story short, the insurance company is within its rights to reject your claim. The reason; the vehicle was NOT legally registered at the time of accident. Sorry to say this, but the facts are not in your favor and your chances are not good for any award in your favor if you take the matter to court. Please read the policy very carefully and understand the terms and conditions therein. Understand the implications of these T&Cs before taking a decision to take the legal route. It will be a long & expensive affair and your changes of getting a award in your favor are not good due to the fact that you were involved in a illegal activity.

          The third issue is repairs of the bike, you need to ask yourself whether it is worthwhile repairing the bike if it going to cost you as much as you have mentioned.
          Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

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          • #6
            Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

            I will agree to abhimanyu on this, when looked dispassionately what you did & possible were doing for 10months was illegal activity. While this is out of insurance company purview but this can go against you.

            Another point being the court may simply ask you the reasons for not having a permanent registration for good 10 months for which I'm sure "Workload" alone as a reason may not hold much substance. don't feel bad but that's true, so you may have to create a paper trail or some substantiating evidence for it. Even if your lawyer carefully steers out of it there's a major hole in the event & that's the "expired" part, which entails that the Vehicle in question will not be a legal entity i.e. doe not exist anymore on paper atleast. So with the vehicle no longer being a legal entity on what will Bajaj disburse their claim against? You could though still go ahead & file cases in consumer & civil courts but mind you this will not be a quick fix it could run into months n years, do you think you'll be able to take time off???
            Ride your Heart out!!!

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            • #7
              Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

              To be frank, the OP doesn't have any say in this case.
              I wish he truly recovers soon from the trauma, but he has no case to present here.

              The insurance company has correctly denied his claims. He was riding an illegal bike at the time of the accident. In fact, as others have said and I'd iterate, there may be few sections applied on the OP for riding an illegal vehicle.
              Secondly, such inquiries are to be made before buying any vehicle. That's the basic principle for an informed person to avoid such hassles later.

              Also, 10 months of workload would need loads of evidence to prove for not getting a permanent registration.
              Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
              Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

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              • #8
                Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

                I had the same experience with my dad's car in 2012.

                Met with an accident on NH4 near Tumakuru, car was on annual registration (dad was a central govt employee then) and the registration had expired at the time of accident. The very same Bajaj Allianz was the insurer.

                I had a good friend from an online community who helped me out with few email IDs and phone numbers. I will PM you those, you may try your luck.

                Took me few emails, half day of screaming my lungs out over phone to get my claim of ~30k honoured.

                Some googling I had done back then:-

                Click image for larger version

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                It is a lame excuse given by Insurance company to dishonour claim. How is a piece of paper related to you meeting with an accident?

                As long as the bike was used for the purpose it is meant for (no racing, R&D, etc) I see no reason why the insurance company should dishonour your claim.
                Last edited by NitinGirish; 12-29-2015, 01:36 PM.
                A lone amateur built the ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic...

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                • #9
                  Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

                  Well if it was done in the past then there's hope! I'd say if there was a precedence then you must try your luck.
                  Ride your Heart out!!!

                  Continental GT - 10,000km Review


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                  • #10
                    Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

                    Thank you everyone for the concern. I couldn't agree more to what all of you are saying and I dont feel bad about any brickbats that come my way, makes sense . And that is exactly why I spent that time in writing the entire piece. Few things I quickly wanted to clarify or check

                    1) Not sure if TC and TR are the same. I was told TC was valid for a week, and I didn't take the bike out from my house until I got a temporary registration which means I got a regular TR number issued which is allowed in Telangana. Vehicles on temporary registration are allowed a month for permanent registration. Temporary registration does involve paying all taxes and all including the big road tax etc for which I have the receipts with all information being provided about the bike. The permanent registration step requires a very small fees to get done and if done late, then with a penalty. I was also issued a full insrance policy via email a few days later. Marks the registration number as "new". And no, I wasn't stopped at any point. I am also assuming this is because Telangana does allow you bid for numbers. So, at the basic bid of 2000 per preferred number and at 20 numbers that were bid a day on one registration series alone (TS 07 for example, all numbers being representative from the follow up that I did), thats a cool million bucks for nothing. I am sure numbers such 9999, 0007 are bid much higher. And if you miss a number in a series, it isn't before 45 days that you get a chance to bid for the next one. Put together for all such series, that's easy revenue running in crores at practically zero cost. Makes business sense to me.

                    2) I can completely relate to Bombay references, I was there for almost 3 years. Exactly why I know no dealer would have let me take it out the vehicle without permanent registration. Precisely seems a good reason to buy vehicles in such states.

                    3) Yea the workload reason is dumb as much as it is true, but all of you are right. Dispassionate view of the law does imply I am possibly at a disadvantage, but I still have to try

                    4) Cost of repairing that bike, cant really dump her. Wouldnt be much of a biker if I did

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                    • #11
                      Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

                      Originally posted by rachitjs View Post
                      Thank you everyone for the concern. I couldn't agree more to what all of you are saying and I dont feel bad about any brickbats that come my way, makes sense . And that is exactly why I spent that time in writing the entire piece. Few things I quickly wanted to clarify or check

                      1) Not sure if TC and TR are the same. I was told TC was valid for a week, and I didn't take the bike out from my house until I got a temporary registration which means I got a regular TR number issued which is allowed in Telangana. Vehicles on temporary registration are allowed a month for permanent registration. Temporary registration does involve paying all taxes and all including the big road tax etc for which I have the receipts with all information being provided about the bike. The permanent registration step requires a very small fees to get done and if done late, then with a penalty. I was also issued a full insrance policy via email a few days later. Marks the registration number as "new". And no, I wasn't stopped at any point. I am also assuming this is because Telangana does allow you bid for numbers. So, at the basic bid of 2000 per preferred number and at 20 numbers that were bid a day on one registration series alone (TS 07 for example, all numbers being representative from the follow up that I did), thats a cool million bucks for nothing. I am sure numbers such 9999, 0007 are bid much higher. And if you miss a number in a series, it isn't before 45 days that you get a chance to bid for the next one. Put together for all such series, that's easy revenue running in crores at practically zero cost. Makes business sense to me.
                      Your explanations are wholly irrelevant to the facts. Fact is that you had what is called a 'Temporary' registration. The word 'Temporary' is there for a reason i.e. it comes with a expiry date. An expiry date is there for a reason i.e. you need to complete the certain formalities before that date. That you were not stopped and that you were issued a insurance policy on temporary registration does not take away anything from the fact that you were riding a illegal vehicle at the time of the accident. Why was it illegal? Because you had let the Temporary Registration lapse without completing the require legal formalities to ensure that the vehicle you were riding was legally registered with a permanent vehicle registration. You have only yourself to blame for this lapse. That a Temporary Registration is practice followed by that state for reasons such as auctioning of registration numbers is wholly irrelevant to the matter.

                      Check your insurance policy, it will not only mention a expiry date but also a time. Why? Because even a minute after the time mentioned in the policy if a accident happens the policy will not cover such a accident. Legal definition of expiration dates is as follows; In general, the expiration of a contract puts an end to all the engagements of the parties, except to those which arise from the non- fulfilment of obligations created during its existence. Therefore, since your vehicle had a expired temporary registration, it is not a legal vehicle. The obligation of applying for the permanent registration was on you and it was not a obligation on the said authorities to remind you to apply for the same.
                      Last edited by abhimanyu31; 12-30-2015, 01:25 PM.
                      Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

                      Multum in Parvo - Much in Little

                      "Yes, it is FAST! No, you CAN'T ride it!" - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...a-300-san.html

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                      • #12
                        Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

                        Originally posted by rachitjs View Post
                        Thank you everyone for the concern. I couldn't agree more to what all of you are saying and I dont feel bad about any brickbats that come my way, makes sense . And that is exactly why I spent that time in writing the entire piece. Few things I quickly wanted to clarify or check

                        1) Not sure if TC and TR are the same. I was told TC was valid for a week, and I didn't take the bike out from my house until I got a temporary registration which means I got a regular TR number issued which is allowed in Telangana. Vehicles on temporary registration are allowed a month for permanent registration. Temporary registration does involve paying all taxes and all including the big road tax etc for which I have the receipts with all information being provided about the bike. The permanent registration step requires a very small fees to get done and if done late, then with a penalty. I was also issued a full insrance policy via email a few days later. Marks the registration number as "new". And no, I wasn't stopped at any point. I am also assuming this is because Telangana does allow you bid for numbers. So, at the basic bid of 2000 per preferred number and at 20 numbers that were bid a day on one registration series alone (TS 07 for example, all numbers being representative from the follow up that I did), thats a cool million bucks for nothing. I am sure numbers such 9999, 0007 are bid much higher. And if you miss a number in a series, it isn't before 45 days that you get a chance to bid for the next one. Put together for all such series, that's easy revenue running in crores at practically zero cost. Makes business sense to me.

                        2) I can completely relate to Bombay references, I was there for almost 3 years. Exactly why I know no dealer would have let me take it out the vehicle without permanent registration. Precisely seems a good reason to buy vehicles in such states.

                        3) Yea the workload reason is dumb as much as it is true, but all of you are right. Dispassionate view of the law does imply I am possibly at a disadvantage, but I still have to try

                        4) Cost of repairing that bike, cant really dump her. Wouldnt be much of a biker if I did
                        Hi dude,

                        Hope you are fine and doing well. I am from Hyderabad too and i know rules here somewhat.

                        Rules for AP and TS are somewhat good favoring the buyers for taking their purchased vehicle immediately from showrooms with just a T/R sticker.

                        Temp. Reg. (T/R Here what it is, both in AP and Telangana) will allow the vehicle owner to use his vehicle for the first month and gives the owner to choose a number of his preference from a daily list at RTA site. After this period the owner gets fined if he was caught with his un-registered vehicle (May not be a hefty Fine here).

                        so many people here roam with T/R plates for a long time for getting their number of choice. They are not getting heavily fined/seized is the main reason. Here it is very common. One may get wondered to see even some older 2010 model to 2014 model bikes (may be even older than 2010)are with worn out T/R stickers wandering freely (they are not new bikes). I always wonder how the hell they are roaming very freely..??

                        Now you might be thinking it is ok.. right..?? NO. I was told by the RTA officials itself it is not legal to drive without Permanent Registration and Traffic police will fine me if i get caught.

                        Insurance companies are big Game players and they will be ready with all their Loopholes when its the time for settling the claim.

                        Here in your case the good thing is u are ok after accident.

                        Please gather required information thoroughly and if you have time please visit Khairatabad RTA for information (Famous and Big RTA office for giving TS 09 ... number) before going legally as it will add further burden, both financially and mentally.

                        For repairs, try to visit Ramkoti.

                        I wish you a complete and speedy recovery. Peace...
                        Last edited by Srinivas sr143sr; 12-30-2015, 04:41 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

                          Good that you are recovered now, hope you are happy to be alive and moving and this is a minor issue you are facing compared to that.

                          Now coming to the point, while the insurance doesn't itself directly have anything to do with vehicle registration they are heavily banking on the legality aspect of use case. That is the whole insurance assumes as a precondition that first the vehicle and you are in a legally valid position during the said situation and then the rest follows. So I think going to court will not bring you relief but cause you more frustration and harassment which are really avoidable under your present circumstances.

                          Please forget this as a bad dream and start enjoying your life, you may/will once again ride such a bike if you are more careful.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Dreams, Foolish Mistakes, Insurance Qualms and Life Lessons

                            Originally posted by rachitjs View Post
                            4) Cost of repairing that bike, cant really dump her. Wouldnt be much of a biker if I did

                            first of all, echoing everybody else, thank goodness you are alive and well.

                            now regarding your above quoted statement. being a biker does mean loving your bike and biking, but at some point, one's logic and reason should kick in.
                            Agreed you love your bike, but think about it, if the accident was so bad that you were out cold for 4 days, the bike's chassis might not be in a good enough shape to be repaired. after spending a bomb, you WILL NOT get your bike in a problem free condition. it would be wiser to write it off as a total loss and go in for a new bike, i understand the monetary requirements for that.

                            what i am trying to say is that after a point, the decision should not be emotional, it should be rational. go in for the same bike, but i recommend a new one. and a duly registered one. happy biking.
                            http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/3...s-1-rider.html

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