I guess long time i've beeen on xBhp,i missed this article..HOwever,, better late than never..
Again a wonderfull article Sir.Old Fox.. and yess.. after going through the whole,i had to just skip some words as being very poor over my verbisiach..could not understand many words that he had written..
However.. what he seems to say is very much true in fact..
And As said by
Yess.. Very True indeed..

And when it comes to people or rather i should say KIDS like me..i have to make myself learn from the Sr.Members like Sunny,OldFox and many more..
After seeeing them perform and ride in front of me ,then only learn..

Many Thanks to all of the people who have helped me in becoming a rider that i am now.."Atleast",I think i am a better one now....

Another writeup which makes you sit and think as what you are doing????
To be a honest i have fallen pray to these urges quite a few number of times. especially if i'm riding at my moderate speed and some maniac overtakes me from wrong side and that too only from few inches away. I've shown many people their real worth on the road but with time you start learning and you start forgiving these bikerless souls.
we get many so called bikers on our day to day life which makes me think as what they are trying to prove?? sometime even though you become a matured rider; you still want to teach few lessons to these people. And if we only talk about people who ride like theres no tomorrow then we should also include other irretating bunch of people whom you would like to slap hard. And the lucky winners are people jumping from nowhere and teleporting just in front of you.
i remember once i braked hard to save a guy. he was lucky that i slowed down and turned by bike but when he was few inches away i slaped him hard and vrooommm.
Now i think that was not neccasary but sometime intuitions tell you wat to do and you just follow the path.
I's like choosing between a angel or Devil within you.

This is the statement thats been buggering me for so long. I read somewhere that the 'sixth sense' or 'intution' of experienced riders is nothing but the being aware of the situation and looking far ahead, a skill honed for years. When a rider feels his sixth sense kicking in, its probably because he detects a sudden change in the flow of traffic, an aggressive rider on a facist campaign to move into everybody's lane, a car holding back the rest behind it, stuff like that.. that disrupt the normal pace of the traffic. I don't remember where I read this.. I've searched through xBhp and the other website i refer to and I'm unable to find the article. Thought it'd be relevant here.

So thats my confusion! You cannot have a fire alarm hollering in your mind without the smoke signals, right? So without the perceivable or logical warning, a decision taken by the rider would be futile in its purpose, is what I understand. Since its taken in fractions of time, they may be mistaken for sixth sense?

Shed some light Mr. OF!

My apologies for a late response.

A 'sense' in the strictest sense is para-conscious. You touch something hot and withdraw the hand reflexively. True, the 'heat damages' code is ingrained through past experience but retrieval of 'experience' info is not necessary for this 'sense induced reflex'. It needs to be the same with riding. Yes, all possible permutations and combinations are from the spectrum of experience but once they are embedded deep within the consciousness, the reflex actions they induce are..well...reflexive. Rossi catching a front wheel slide does so with unthinking reflex. There is no time to 'think and act' per se.

To make it easier to differentiate between 'thought out action' and supra-logical 'reflexive' or 'intuitive' action, we use different words like 'intuition' or 'sixth sense' etc. Calling it whatever does not reduce its importance or utility. A tiny seemingly unrelated trigger leads to a life-saving decision. Intuition, sixth sense, reflex.......does it matter what we call it except to the academics. The humble rider just wants to live for another day....another ride....right?

The bells ringing within you are right. I had posted an article bxc (before xbhp crash) penned long back by Nick Ienatsch (of the 'Sport Riding Techniques' and 'PACE' fame) that talked about this sixth sense. Will try and locate it and re-post it.

meanwhile...ride long and safe...
OF

I'm not paying for any of these lessons you're doing a favour remember!

Exactly! All we want is to keep riding! Would be awesome if you do locate the article.. thank you sir!

I was thinking to start a topic on similar lines as written by Sundeep sir. But i somehow went through the hard torque section first . Intuition ?

I do admit that i have listened to my hormonal urges all these years being a rebel kiddo and indulging in life-threatening manoeuvers on the streets at the slightest opportunity. But slowly over time,a higher intelligence prevailed and now I do become aware of these instincts.It's said that becoming aware of our inadequacies is the first step in eliminating them.So I guess I am on the right path.Meditation has also helped a lot and so has my philosophical streak over the last 2 years. While meditating we do become more aware of the things we do in our life ,slowly gaining more understanding on the WHY nature of things. It has instilled a sense of compassion in me and now every time I get a spike to Street Race I do end up thinking about the other guy first, like what if he falls and gets himself injured in the process or worse dies - Then I might be responsible for it in someway- for getting involved in a quest of supremacy.

So now i am trying to be a good boy and reserve the thrills in safer places where the probability of anyone else getting hurt is less.Hope i do succeed in my endeavor.

Very rightly said Sandeep Sir! I feel life takes a different meaning altogether when I am astride a bike, no matter how small or big in displacement. Though people don't realize the various quick decisions&how fast the brain&body are working, just in a span of 10-15minutes, even on a commute from their home to workplace!

gr8 write up sir....the language forced me to keep a dictionary at hand...but very well torqued.

Thank you OFजी for rubbing in some sense & sensiblility into us, when in our country all the learning for a motorcyclist happens the hard way.

Our chances of survival are more by not giving into our urges, when challenged to 'Race'. These days I'm making it a habit of racing against
time (not against a motorcylist), to reach the destination on time. I'm realising that the difference b/w on the edge riding & being in control is 5-10 kmph (I start way early. This keeps me at sedate speeds & projects me as a chicken with 'racing' riding gear for rest of the world ). This extra 'Race' speed is not worth the risk, not worth anything at all.

Nice article. It is very important to ride responsibly at all times.

I feel Heavenly O O

Don,t people involved in accident in spite of being Safety-man. yes.. I know a man met with accident just because other man in car opened the door without any clue or signs or anythings, and i don't think any kind of sixth sense could have have saved him. This sixth sense and the vast experience do help but there is limitation with every skills.

I learned one thing from life some people do any work(lets say bike riding) whole life but just do it because they need/enjoy it to do. Some person really ride the bike, feel its every throttle response, cornering, precise braking and trying to improve day by day testing their skills & pushing the limits to next level actively.

SO some sane people will say push your limits on race track & not on road whats the difference between race track & on road. On race track there also are the fellow drivers with more fierce competition than on road to push you on back. Race are more dangerous than on road. Now isn't race is about pushing your limit while braking or while turning/cornering or accelerating so same skills apply on road different circumstances. mind it danger are present at both places.

Yes next points will be different skills/mentality of fellow drivers on road vs. race track. but drive below your skills level ( just want to add that it is recommended to drive at 70-80% of driving skills on road to meet emergencies and mistakes of fellow driver, mind it you can not guarantee 100% safe riding by any means, road traffic is too much unpredictable at times, so all those safety talk will help you but to certain limits only)

And still drive fast enough and can cross 150KMPH, than why not enjoy your skill, street race its just extension of fast driving, driving fast is different than unsafe riding(people riding on scooty in heavy traffic with helmets??/ sudden change of lane/ pushing in traffic/cutting another bike or car all this done by slow driver or plain looking uncle/ family man next door) am I wrong?? and if by driving fast other chap trying to overtake me gets smoked what can i do ??

Another points on road its India so Unpredictability, people on suicide mission finds your bike very attractive to die for. or animals just like to roam and fight with vehicles considering them as their counterpart or many other little unpredictability making big difference, than my friend aren't these safe man who never exceeds 40kmph also the target for these things.

Just street racing is outright bad?? No, if done with full responsibility knowing what are you doing & what are your environment & consequences And why not use your sixth sense("i knew somehow feeling") to decide to race or not.. how much to risk for depending on traffic unpredictability, when to pull out from race or to continue.

Yes its your decision alone and you have to face consequences yourself only but as good rider i will try to push my limits always to learn more & more i can't be Rossi but sure i will try to be among his league.

Ride safe thinking that someone is waiting for you in home.(its irony buts its TRUE)

It seems that the meaning of responsibility evades you. 'Racing' on streets is the epitome of irresponsibility. The only way people will call you more irresponsible is if you pull out a gun and start shooting,.. actually they wont call you irresponsible, rather you will be shot.

The ride at your 70% is a phrase from Kieth Code's Twist of the Wrist, is an emphasis on the level of concentration/preparedness you have to maintain during regular riding to achieve your theoretical best on 'the track' when the competition really happens. No where in the book, rather no professional anywhere will ever tell you to race/compete 'on the street' to achieve whichever effect.

Race Track and the Road are quite different, different levels of traction, different levels of fluctuation of traction, corners (along with correct camber) designed for going fast vs corners designed for transportation of people at a safe speed.. not listing other variables because you clearly need to understand the distinction yourself for it to be of value to you.

Your argument reminds me of the argument that smokers give for smoking, "People are going to die someday so why not die smoking" <- sounds logical on the surface but is horribly flawed. Crashing in a race track, you will walk away most of the time, Crashing on road you may not, or worse someone else might not. Your justification for racing on street because racing on track pose similar risk, is horribly flawed and severely narrow minded.

It is untrue that the traffic sense here is unpredictable/ chaotic. There is apparent chaos in the surface, but underneath that there is order, those who recognise the order learn from it and call it Intuition. This recognition and subsequent learning and usage of this faculty is done sub consciously and our aware self is unaware of it. It is not something magical or supernatural to be tagged "sixth sense" and glossed over. It is an enhancement of ones awareness if you will.

Perhaps you misunderstood me..What if i just drive fast and incidently the other driver driving fast also happens to be smoked/overtook by me. Now driving fast is irresponsible??.

Ok a guy challenge me by overtaking me in a bad manners what can be my reaction If road condition are conducive for top speed driving i will surely drive fast. But if roads are not conducive for fast driving(many reasons....) then i will drop the racing instinct and drive safely..its about taking decision.. All people drive fast or push their limits every 2-3 days may be because they are late for office or some just enjoying their ride..etc.change your perspective buddy its not race against that guy but pushing our own limits for that we should know our limits at first hand.

Just following the rule book or safety book does not make you responsible, talking about Robots with mentioned directive in their program " street racing is bad , ALWAYS". Man, thats where intuition comes into play when to race /accept challange and when to just ignore..we are human following rule book/safety book does always lead to safety?? take your decision...


I surely understand( i will not go in technical details but if you like i can...) my dear but you understand just game rules are changed but the game is same just different between test match, T20 & one day match)

What if i enjoying smoking knowing its pros & cons but still decided to smoke confident(according to situation where? when? how?) that other persons are not gets affected & most importantly putting off my smoke as condition changes like, some child come & stands near me or something like that.) still it will be wrong? i don't think so.

By the way i don't smoke


Totally wrong,its opposite i don't know which traffic experience you have BUT Traffic order is just superficial, basic instinct of traffic is chaotic just look at any busy malfunctioned red light or there are plenty of example do you need me to spell that all.And intuition is about about learning/ understanding the chaos, seeing the pattern where its hardly noticeable..Learning the chaos needs intuition or sixth sense. other wise any thing following pattern, following order can easily bound by mathematical equation and then we can definetive guide for "How not to be involved in an accident" No where in the book, rather no professional anywhere will ever tell you definative understanding of traffic order which you follow to remain safe, its intuition because its chaotics/unpredictable.

Talking about street racings Its just driving faster than fellow human nothing else, just remain calm follow intuition And others safety.

There is very thin line between stupidity & bravery/pushing your limits. Take your decision and put that line at right place!!

Its good to see you putting up a brave stance for your points. but like you said there is a thin line between stupidity and bravery.

When some one "Challenges you on the road" you have two very immediate choices, to accept and not to, what do you have to prove by accepting such a challenge, will it prove that you have superior skill or sense? I am not against riding fast, I am however against 'racing on the street'. Please understand this distinction, there has been no 'misunderstanding of your previous post'.

No 'rule book' or 'safety book' was quoted in my reply. The book that was quoted is a riding skill development book. It was to point out how you had twisted the statement to justify your ends. You have conveniently assumed that 70% skill level is 70% of how fast you can go. So by your reasoning if my bike and I can do 150kmph, i should be doing 105kmph everywhere? we, humans, have limited faculty, speeds above 24kmph are simply beyond the scope of 'complete human processing'. To help with this limitation they have advised us to ride at 70% of our skill level always (it is like mental weight training), skills like looking, guessing traction, anticipation, awareness of surrounding, listening, understanding feedback from the bike, reaction time or reflexes. Skills, and not solely the effect produced by application of these skills. Speed, judgement are all effects produced by usage of the inherent faculty and skills, they are not the skills. Even a chimp can 'go fast' when provided with the necessary tools.

Arrey, you missed the gist entirely, its not about what kind of a game it is, it is what kind of a risk you are leaving yourself and others to. And if you are in the know how of tracks then please do share, technical details if you are inclined, the forums would benefit from it.

OT: I am a smoker and i do take precautions around non smokers, i move/put off,.. but you asked what is wrong?. the obvious eludes you? (you are looking at the surface, what about the depth). The smoker's excuse was a way to show how wild justification work, and how they look logical at the surface and not quite so when you dig deeper.

The last part of your post is totally your opinion, I respect that. Where i see order in chaos you might see the reverse. Allow me to explain my opinion.

The Traffic in Mumbai and Navi Mumbai are like cattle herding at best. People stop randomly, people turn randomly, people change lane randomly, people cross road looking the other way, people stop in the road when you slow down for them,.. generally people act random. It appears that their decisions are totally random and (to me, as a rider) illogical. But this is not quite true, there are always a reason for a person to do an action, there is always a stimulus to which the action is replying to, how can it be any other way? well you can say junkies do things with out thinking, lol the stimulus here is the lack of stimulus.

What i am trying to say is there is always a reason behind some seemingly random event, and to me this is order, not chaos. An auto standing at the road side could mean that your crush has alighted from it and is going to cross the road from the front of the auto, promtingly you blip the horn and slow down - true story btw. Looks random, but i happened to arrive at the right place, at the right time, and did the right set of actions which was subconsciously set off in me.

OF sir has Aptly named this thread "some how i knew". but lionheart sir maybe you may find the interesting bit is in the "how/why it happened", That is the arena of philosophers and great thinkers, I am just providing my meek opinion in better hopes to help understand that question and gain.

Untill this discussion has reached a new level of understanding, Signing off.