Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

Completely agree with you!

Well the point is that piece of paper is making a lot of guys do saddlesore needlessly. They think its a ticket to stardom. They donot understand the experience and effort behind doing a saddlesore. As you said education would be the best way out of this conundrum but does really some one care about it?

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

I sincerely hope this well made and well written point is understood by everyone including the one who started this thread. I really do not want to react to this kind of thread which makes one set of riders feel like outcasts. I believe everyone should respect each other's abilities to enjoy their rides responsibly instead of dictating terms like this should not be done, this is stupidity, why this is being done, or that is being done for one piece of paper. Now, I am sure that the response to my post would be, do not take it personally, every one has right to express their opinion blah blah blah. Expressing opinion should not be confused to dictating terms.

How many can say with utmost honesty that they did not ride at insane speeds at some point of time and distracted other users of the roads.
In many ownership reviews when owners of a certain high end bike says I touched top speed of 200 Kmph, everyone would be asking how is stability, this, that. But no one says 'hey! why did you ride at such insane speeds causing trouble to others?' Talk about double standards! Those who talk about violation of law also say that speed limit law is outdated. A law is a law whether it's outdated or not. It should not be broken if one is so concerned and preaching. I am out of here before I get into this whirlpool of arguments. [MENTION=10597]Old Fox[/MENTION] Sir, thanks again for point well made.

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

Point noted.. Its really a personal choice whether to do a SS or something else. No one can dictate anyone what to do or anything. Its good that our senior members have put their views forward and laid down all the dangers concerning such rides. But it should also be noted that we cannot banish the riders who have done it or want to do.
Some have done the feat and are proud of it. When a person takes his mind on something, at one point or the other, the dangers involved do occupy his mind. He knows what he is doing.
unlike some fools who even wants to know what 'bike' he should use for SS, many do have experience in long riding and they know the dangers involved.
We should just leave it as a personal choice. Peace

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

IF I may...

I am compelled to believe that one of the biggest reasons (or probably the only one) for aargee to start this thread is *frustration* towards motorcycle riders who want to undertake SS but do not/don't want to understand the enormity of this particular ride. This emotion is similar to the one which is felt when looking at a school kid who is *gifted* a fast motorcycle, riding triple, recklessly, without understanding the hardwork that the other guy had done to own a similar motorcycle. Ofcourse that school kid is alien to the concept of respect that should be given to such a machine. This frustrating feeling only echoing by the question "Which motorcycle is suitable for an SS?" as if the supposedly *appropriate* motorcycle will make the ride just so normal. Though some motorcycles can certainly be more suitable than others (like the ones with better headlights, ABS, etc.) but in no way does it reduces the challenge that an SS is in general. However, I wouldn't conclude that the thread starter is entirely against the idea of saddle sore even if his post might indicate the same.

Racing against time always involves a higher risk compared to doing the same work when it is not time bounded. This is universal. That is why, for example, riding to Khardung La may not be as life threatening as doing a saddle sore. Though neither ride, given the purpose, is any less victorious to the rider than the other. It is all about the purpose, the mentality behind the ride.

And...It is infinitely debatable how safe or not motorcycling is in general, as many of us seem to have mentioned it already. However, personally I would say that by pure mass, a motorcyclist is probably the least dangerous entity on the road. An equally reckless 4 wheeled driver is far more dangerous to the others as he has higher probability to hitting more road users than a motorcyclist. However, ofcourse, a motorcyclist can definitely cause a fatal accident by surprising other(s). But then the surprise element can even be caused by a pedestrian! So everyone at a particular time on the road is responsible for oneself and others whether he is driving or riding or crossing the road walking.

As Old Fox has said, let's not disregard the spirit of Saddle Sore and demean those who have done this in the right spirit. However, I truly believe that most of us are/would be against a Saddle Sore majorly because of the lack of respect towards it that has become more apparent today thanks to some motorcyclists who are irresponsible in general towards the art of biking. Our traffic conditions and driving/riding ethics on the road don't help the matters much and it is the very reason why many families are against motorcycling in general. In fact, this *casual* mentality behind doing a saddle sore inevitably uncovers a bigger, bitter mentality towards biking that many people in our country seem to have. Why do many people around us believe that driving or owning a car is being more mature than riding a motorcycle? Why is it that many of us have been told, sometime in our lives, that *now you are getting married, so stop riding a bike, get a car and be responsible*! Why and when did we start to think that biking is immature? Is it something to do with our physical ability that supposedly worsens with age and hence riding a motorcycle becomes obviously dangerous? I am not entirely convinced on this theory. And why can't we accept biking as a beautiful lifestyle instead?

The main problem is the wrong attitude towards biking in general, and which must be treated from as early as possible. Because a true biker, irrespective of kms under his/her belt, would not disregard something like a saddle sore but rather highlight its risks and educate how it can be done safely. Highlighting risks, especially for time bound rides like SS, is an important part to do a journey safely as it leads to good preparation.

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

Err, the thread went haywire!

In fact, the very core concept of this thread has been misunderstood. IMO, OP never wanted to banish endurance rides like SS and BB. What his post was intended to do is; make an aspirant think hard into the entire process rather than jumping into the decision. I'd request people to read the 1st post again. It's mainly directed at young kids who aspire doing a saddlesore even before they got a a bike.
I'm sure [MENTION=13163]darkknight[/MENTION], [MENTION=49942]experimentalhead[/MENTION] had enough experience already before they thought of attempting the endurance ride. Heck, even a 500 km trip may be an endurance ride for some, so its a relative term.

One may or may not do it for the certificate (as pointed by [MENTION=10597]Old Fox[/MENTION] sir - that some may just do 1600+ kms and be content that they could do it), this post was to highlight the immaturity in the newer breed of bikers who think of attempting such rides without giving it a thought. With due respect to all members, the examples of IOMTT/Leh/MotoGP/IBA challenges are irrelevant because neither can be achieved by a less experienced rider. It requires years of building endurance, understanding oneself and his bike and their limits in unison.

Hence, let us not deviate from the core point and start hurling flames at one another and continue a healthy discussion. Yes, being a forum, one must agree to disagree; but lets not hurt and get hurt brothers. One may have a different perspective of looking at things, but we're all essentially stating the same point!

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

Well said

The intent of the thread starter is to mainly point out the dangers involved by an inexperienced or high adrenaline kid/rider in attempting a SS/BB. Just by reading the post of SS/BB it is not possible to do it. Like already said it requires lot of experience and knowledge of your own limits in doing such a feat.

Even I was extremely skeptic when I did my 300 kms tour. I had all the doubts in my mind even though I have been riding for last 18 years. A mature/experienced rider will always think and act rather than jump into conclusions of doing a feat so demanding.

I think and hope that this thread will be an eye opener for all the newbie who think such a feat is a child's play.

cheers

Mathews

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

Just like how you've misunderstood this thread, there're many youngsters in this country who've misunderstood SS rides; @Satellite.kid has clearly stated what it is about. I don't see a reason for your agitation, unless you choose to.

I don't know whether I've distracted, but I've ridden at worst speeds that you could even imagine to the speeds of SS2000K for hours together; having experienced them, I know what amount of stress one has to undergo & they were not built over night. I've also helped few riders who're making such attempts because I know what they have it within them at the same time, I've also refrained many people who were trying the possibility of doing such an attempt.

One last time, making my point crystal clear, today, most of them are able afford for those expensive motorcycles; once they hear about such attempts, they probably think the certificate can be bought just like how they got the ride. To gain experience, there're numerous motorcycle clubs offering Sunday morning group rides. Attending such rides, meeting few riders, hearing about Leh/Ladakh & such certification makes them aspire for one. Nothing wrong in it, but the question is, do they really have the passion to do it? Do they really have patience to achieve it? It's like buying a RE without knowing what RE is about.

Moving along with the group for 3-4 months makes them feel confident to ride, little do they know what it takes more than the Sunday morning rides or a 400-500 Km round trip on highways are completely different from riding continuously for 24 hours deprived of sleep & less food & water intakes, which is a very serious threat compared to everyday commuting. They think the only way to gain popularity in the group is to achieve & in their terms, riding to Ladakh or make a SS attempt.

More motorcyclist get killed on road in this country, because there're millions of motorcycles on road everyday riding irresponsibly compared to few 1000's (and less than 20 at one event in a track) who're riding responsibly with riding gears. Both are two different things. And it's undeniable truth, making such an attempt outside this country is less riskier. Let me stop being picky & keep moving.

You really need to take a chill pill as I, personally, haven't made any statement against you or anyone who have made such an achievement. If you still think you do, then, I can't change anyone's perceptions; I really can't stop anyone from getting hurt deliberately.

Exactly my point along with @muztariq first post; but somehow people try to pick up on things that they choose to argue for no reason. They don't understand they're missing the main point.

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

I think this is like the case of those students who want to be an engineer or doctor just because they have seen some successful, rich & famous Doctor/Engineer in their family or society & not for their love & interest in medicine or machines. Getting inspired by someone is a good thing but without passion & experience it can get really hard to achieve something at this level. SS or Leh ride is not my certification of biker infact we never started motorcycling to prove anything to anyone. SS needs lots of efforts, experience & training, attempting such rides without proper experience is like cycling in "Tour de France" just because I use to go to school cycling. So everyone who have completed such rides must have taken appreciable efforts with enough experience in their saddle.

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

Well this is something i could find from the IBA website (SaddleSore 1000/Bun Burner 1500 Rules)


"The SaddleSore and Bun Burner do NOT require you to speed. The majority of riders will cover their 1,000 miles in about 18 to 20 hours (including all stops). For every hour you are on a major highway riding, you put approximately 20 minutes of "off" time in your time bank that can be used for resting. Use that time wisely as it does not come off the 24 hour clock!
Although this is not much of an issue in the USA and Canada, please note: We do not certify rides where the maximum speed limit is too low to support the average speed necessary to complete the ride within the time limit."

In India the speed limit is 50 for a motorcycle, yes its just 50 (Speed limits in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, with Delhi as a certain exception). So there is no way any rider can do 1600 kms in 24 hours. The max you can do is 1200 kms. So how do these guys certify the saddlesore in India?

What it also means that when attempting the saddle sore you have to keep breaking the speed limit for a really long long time.

So technically, if you are attempting a saddlesore you are breaking the law with the advance knowledge that you are going to break it.
Apart from the one attempting, for any one advising a saddle sore, arent they abetting the crime?

Note: The above post doesnt mean that i havenot broken the speed limit or will break the speed limit in the future. It doesnt reflect the nature of my riding as well! Its just my thoughts about the max legal damage that can happen to an individual if he is found attempting the saddle sore.

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

nice thread, i noticed it a bit late....read the entire thread, it started off well, but went haywire a bit later on, but even that is ok, atleast we get to know everyone's opinion.

much needed discussion, as even i was a bit irked, when i read "which bike is best for saddlesore, which bike should i purchase" and in all prabability that was the reason this thread came into existence.

nice discussion.

one thing i wanna understand - if 50 KMPH is the legal speed limit for two-wheelers in india, and IBA says they won't certify a ride if they found out that speed limit is voilated, how come all these SS & BB rides in india get certified..??

just a little bit of technicality i want to understand.

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

Good post and I would like to add my own points.

not only the vehicles we ride but also the road conditions we ride here in India should be compared to the conditions in US or European countries. there they can do triple digit speeds for longer durations with less fear of a crouching dog hidden cat who want to cross the road. they don't have to worry about the late night road side defecators. they have less or no potholes compared to our roads or highways. they dont have to worry about predicting whether the oncoming truck is going the correct lane or is it coming head on. they don't have to worry about the capability of their bike to maintain triple digit average whereas it is rarely possible here even with a bike like the busa.

so when you are getting the same certificate/membership as everyone else in the world, a strict comparision to the roads, traffic and bikes should also be done. and when that is done, I find it unworthy an effort and applaud those successful since they have proven they have more endurance compared to the rest of the world.

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

I posted your question to IBA; don't recall the exact words, but, what they replied meant, many riders here wanted to get certified OR wanted IBA to accept their feat & hence they seemed to relax. Upon further seeking clarification, the obvious happened - NO REPLY

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

I sent the below email to IBA...

And this is the reply I get...
As usual...NO REPLY!!!

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

50Kmph is the speed limit for motorcycles in city limit, highways its still 80 Kmph ?

Re: Saddlesore is a child's play

Not all Highways are 80, Few have fortunately upgraded to 100Kmph.