Announcement

**sunilg** · 02-25-2012, 01:38 PM

Query approved.

**Jeanie** · 02-25-2012, 02:44 PM

dipstick not a very accurate measure of oil level . after 3 hours riding if u felt oil was burning drain the oil after 15-20 mins and measure how much it is .

for the top end issue try cleaning the carb , especially the jets .

**greenknight** · 02-26-2012, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by flyingJian View Post

Guys, I am having a weired yet serious problem with my bike TVS APACHE RTR 180.

My bike is running on Motul W40 mineral engine oil. Earlier to this i was using Castrol Power 1 SS.

The engine oil level is drastically decreasing on high speed riding.
When I ride the bike at speed of 100-110 kmph for say 3 hours, the engine oil level on dipstick is coming down to half marking from the full marking.
But when i ride at a speed of 75-85 kmph for the same above duration there is no dip or drop of engine oil(as seen on dipstick).

When I checked the exhaust outlet(FFE), there is some carbon on the exhaust but its not oily deposit of carbon, its same like when your bike's A\F is on richer side.

There is also no visible smoke while riding or while revving the bike at stand still. I can only see smoke when the bike is revved to 11k RPM and beyond on stand still.

And when I checked the spark plug, it was showing symptom of as bike was running lean on AF mixture. It was all whiteash in colour. If bike is burning engine oil than there should have been black oily carbon deposit on spark plug tip but there is none.

There is one more unusual thing here is that, in the Air filter box there is some oil and I am sure that its not the oil from Air Filter. And it was more that normal.

As far as the acceleration is concerned bike is still pulling pretty good till 100 kmph but after that it struggles to go above and doesn't give Apache RTR like feel, but still manages 120 kmph but takes time.

But one thing I am sure of that, the bike is burning engine oil which i can deduce from dipstick levels; when i ride continuously at high RPM/Speed and working perfectly normal on low RPM/Speed that is no engine oil level drop.

Guys if the rings would have gone here, bike would have behaved in the same manner irrespective of RPM/Speed. And would have given above stated symptoms

Guys i need you help and suggestion here to fix this problem because i am already running on my second block which ran for just 13k kms and now giving this problem.

I have the same issue with my Yamaha fazer 150... Been 4-5 months I am yet to find the answers...

**muztariq** · 02-26-2012, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by greenknight View Post

I have the same issue with my Yamaha fazer 150... Been 4-5 months I am yet to find the answers...

ok.. So i will give answeres to both of you..

Whenever you are riding at high speeds continously.. The heat generated in the engine is much higher than the capacity of the oncoming air in an air cooled engine which takes away the heat. This sometimes or rather most of the times leads to unequal distribution of heat in the engine. Some places are hot and some cold.. This leads to unequal cylinder expansion in these areas. The piston rings are unable to take back the oil from the over-expanded side of the cylinder which leads to oil escaping into the combustion chamber and oil level starts decreasing. This is usually a temporary case and the engine comes back to normal position on cooling down or when you ride at an rpm at which the engine heat produced can be efficiently taken away by the oncoming air. To avoid this situation try 1. buying a fluid cooled bike for such long rides..2. Else try taking a break every hour or so to forcefully cool down the engine.. 3. Try riding at speeds at which this doesnt happen 4. Try using thicker oils which can still be brought back by the piston 5. Try using oils which can efficiently transfer the heat produced usually synthetics does this work to some extent. Option 4 and 5 are very vague and may not work at all. Sometimes when the distorsion is very marginal they can work wonders in either avoiding the non uniform heat build up or reducing gap between the distorted cylinder.

Please dont blame the engine oil for this.. I have seen Greenknight sharing his experience with Motul.. This thing can happen on any oil!

My treat is due from you...

Ride safe.. Always.

**asif** · 02-27-2012, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by flyingJian View Post

When I ride the bike at speed of 100-110 kmph for say 3 hours, the engine oil level on dipstick is coming down to half marking from the full marking.
But when i ride at a speed of 75-85 kmph for the same above duration there is no dip or drop of engine oil(as seen on dipstick).

Speed of 100-110 kmph for 3 hours

is insane. Doing this is one not safe for you and second not good for the bike. Take it easy.
I suggest you also check for leakages under-chassis.

**Rajesh Mudaliar** · 02-27-2012, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by asif View Post

Speed of 100-110 kmph for 3 hours

is insane. Doing this is one not safe for you and second not good for the bike. Take it easy.
I suggest you also check for leakages under-chassis.

Dude.. i have not felt any wrong in that coz me too riding that way from past 2.5 years with my R15 i have never felt any change in my bike.. its fresh as it is..

**flyingJian** · 02-27-2012, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Jeanie View Post

dipstick not a very accurate measure of oil level . after 3 hours riding if u felt oil was burning drain the oil after 15-20 mins and measure how much it is .

for the top end issue try cleaning the carb , especially the jets .

Thanks Jeanie for your quick reply.

I am having this problem from quite some time, so to be on safer side on few days interval or gap i check the engine oil by dipstick and every time i had the similar pattern of decrease in engine oil.

I am concerned here more because other symptoms of engine oil burning are not showing up. I always check engine oil after letting it gets settled for whole night.

Originally posted by muztariq View Post

ok.. So i will give answeres to both of you..

Whenever you are riding at high speeds continously.. The heat generated in the engine is much higher than the capacity of the oncoming air in an air cooled engine which takes away the heat. This sometimes or rather most of the times leads to unequal distribution of heat in the engine. Some places are hot and some cold.. This leads to unequal cylinder expansion in these areas. The piston rings are unable to take back the oil from the over-expanded side of the cylinder which leads to oil escaping into the combustion chamber and oil level starts decreasing. This is usually a temporary case and the engine comes back to normal position on cooling down or when you ride at an rpm at which the engine heat produced can be efficiently taken away by the oncoming air. To avoid this situation try 1. buying a fluid cooled bike for such long rides..2. Else try taking a break every hour or so to forcefully cool down the engine.. 3. Try riding at speeds at which this doesnt happen 4. Try using thicker oils which can still be brought back by the piston 5. Try using oils which can efficiently transfer the heat produced usually synthetics does this work to some extent. Option 4 and 5 are very vague and may not work at all. Sometimes when the distorsion is very marginal they can work wonders in either avoiding the non uniform heat build up or reducing gap between the distorted cylinder.

Please dont blame the engine oil for this.. I have seen Greenknight sharing his experience with Motul.. This thing can happen on any oil!

My treat is due from you...

Ride safe.. Always.

Thanks muztariq but I am little confused here with the explanation.

This engine oil burning issue has started recently only that is in past 2 or 3 months. And all the high speed runs i have made were either early morning or late in the evening in the chills of Delhi. And i guess engine should have been getting more cooling because of the wind chill at these times as compared to the times when I rode at similar speeds in the summer months. In my mile-age of 37k Kms almost 25K Kms are on high speed and never had engine oil burning issue.

The thing is even i tried with very rich A/F setting but the Spark Plug is showing symptoms of as I am running lean. At least there should have been some symptoms of engine burn on Spark plug but there are none. I have even tried with a new Spark Plug but no avail.

Originally posted by asif View Post

Speed of 100-110 kmph for 3 hours

is insane. Doing this is one not safe for you and second not good for the bike. Take it easy.
I suggest you also check for leakages under-chassis.

Asif thanks for the concern here.

The road condition here from Delhi to Chandigarh is quite good and you can safely ride and mainatain 100+ speeds here. I know because i have ridden N no. of times on similar speeds on these roads to home.

The very first thing i checked is for any sort of physical leaks and there are visually none. I guess everything is going out via exhaust.

**muztariq** · 02-27-2012, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by flyingJian View Post

Thanks Jeanie for your quick reply.

I am having this problem from quite some time, so to be on safer side on few days interval or gap i check the engine oil by dipstick and every time i had the similar pattern of decrease in engine oil.

I am concerned here more because other symptoms of engine oil burning are not showing up. I always check engine oil after letting it gets settled for whole night.

Thanks muztariq but I am little confused here with the explanation.

This engine oil burning issue has started recently only that is in past 2 or 3 months. And all the high speed runs i have made were either early morning or late in the evening in the chills of Delhi. And i guess engine should have been getting more cooling because of the wind chill at these times as compared to the times when I rode at similar speeds in the summer months. In my mile-age of 37k Kms almost 25K Kms are on high speed and never had engine oil burning issue.

The thing is even i tried with very rich A/F setting but the Spark Plug is showing symptoms of as I am running lean. At least there should have been some symptoms of engine burn on Spark plug but there are none. I have even tried with a new Spark Plug but no avail.

Asif thanks for the concern here.

The road condition here from Delhi to Chandigarh is quite good and you can safely ride and mainatain 100+ speeds here. I know because i have ridden N no. of times on similar speeds on these roads to home.

The very first thing i checked is for any sort of physical leaks and there are visually none. I guess everything is going out via exhaust.

your problem is surley coz of what i have told.. It is not about riding in cool or hot climate. Its about appearance of hot and cold areas in the cylinder. May be because of this cool climate.. The cool air is taking away the heat from one particular location faster than the other.. Its more related to flow of air through the plates, whether hot or cold.. The winters have nearly ended may be the problem will get resolved by itself then.. No need to worry.. Just keep extra oil with you and keep topping up whenever it comes close to halfway on the dipstick.. Dont overfill as it will exaggerate the problem, as oil flow will be impaired.

**sibun** · 02-28-2012, 10:39 AM

@flyingJian- your problem indicates that there is larger gap in oil control ring than recommended. This happens in most replacement bore kit. One solution is to open the head and look on the piston crown. If there is carbon on the combustion chamber and there is oil on the piston then there is sure oil consumption and if there is carbon on the valves then the valve oil seal are gone. Then open the bore and check the ring gap if it is more than required then see if there is scratch marks on bore. If no then see that more than recommended ring gap is there. Then buy a .25(first oversize) ring and take it to a lathe. Then grind the ring gap such that the when the ring is inserted the gaps are close and seeing in light a small gap is visible this should be such that there is very tiny gap and oil cannot go through it. Now refit it and you will see that even under full accelerator there is no smoke but do a run-in of 500 k ms before ripping. This method will last for more than 50k kms. This is the only process in replacement bores as now-a days companies are giving large gap in rings in replacement bores which get larger after 10-15 k kms and thus cause oil burning.

**raghu123** · 02-29-2012, 11:18 AM

hay man no break or stops in a 3 hrs journey at a constant speed of 100-110.???
this is insane man even if the roads are good , 3 hours with high rev top end .... the engine must be high on temperature well any way its air cooled not liquid cooled ... hence give certain break every 100 kms will help engine colling down ........... decrease in engine oil may be due to high temparature or may be inaccurate dipstick ...

@rajesh... man yours is a r15 with liquid cooling ... hence a speed run for 3 hrs is ok but on tvs apache its air cooled and overall indian technology of tvs wont work out ...yamaha rocks no offence
well apache series tend to vibrate a lot from 70 marks thats what i heard , so how stable is apache to do 110 kmh?? just my query apache owners please some light coz i am planning to buy a bike within 90 .. so rtr 180 is one of the substitute

**aniket4848** · 03-01-2012, 02:07 PM

well apache series tend to vibrate a lot from 70 marks thats what i heard , so how stable is apache to do 110 kmh?? just my query apache owners please some light coz i am planning to buy a bike within 90 .. so rtr 180 is one of the substitute

I own RTR 160 Hyper Edge(3 months old,completed 3k on ODO), there are Vibrations between 60-65,which are Absolutely negligible,(atleast in new batch,don't know about old ones). Once it crosses 70 there are no Vibrations at all...

**astonsrinivas** · 03-30-2012, 12:34 PM

Oil Burning

Hey guys, my rtr 180 is 13k kms old and recently i have noticed that the oil dipstick is showing only 3/4th of the total level. It has done 1000kms since the oil change(motul 300v 15w 50). Can anyone please let me know what could be the problem??..........i have checked it when the engine is hot.

I usually rip my bike hard ...mostly shift gears above 6k rpm. Occasionally even touched 10k rpm.

**Drifty** · 03-30-2012, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by astonsrinivas View Post

Hey guys, my rtr 180 is 13k kms old and recently i have noticed that the oil dipstick is showing only 3/4th of the total level. It has done 1000kms since the oil change(motul 300v 15w 50). Can anyone please let me know what could be the problem??..........i have checked it when the engine is hot.

I usually rip my bike hard ...mostly shift gears above 6k rpm. Occasionally even touched 10k rpm.

Many people here have reported about loss of engine oil level with the Motul 300V Double ester FS oil.Perhaps you need to change the oil grade,15W50 is not of the recommended grade for RTRs.You have few other options like Shell Ultra 10W40 or Motul 7100T 10W40 which is a fully synthetic oil and also of the recommended grade.

**astonsrinivas** · 04-02-2012, 10:36 AM

oh...If it is not recommended then should i change the oil immediately? Will it damage my bike engine if i use for few more kms??

Announcement

Mysterious Engine oil burning issue in Apache RTR 180

Mysterious Engine oil burning issue in Apache RTR 180

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment