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  • #1

    Excessive oil losing.

    I use a HH Karizma R 2012 model which I bought in 2017. Maybe the odo was edited when I bought it because it was 19k in odo then and since then I've used it for 33000 km. Odo stands at 52k now. I had to change the valves, camshafts, rocker arms, tensioner and vavle oil seal @ 31k. Since then bike has been used for 20k kilometers. The problem is the bike is consuming 400 ml of oil for 1000 kilometers now. I usually use semi synth oils or fully synth oils. The reason I decided to post this in help me section is that I'm not able to find where the oil goes!
    There are no visible smoke from exhaust while starting or revving. Exhaust tip is not oily. There is no visible leakage anywhere. There is little bit of oil in airbox but I don't think whole 400 ml in 1000 km is going there.
    Bike can still clock 120+ in long stretches. Is it possible to lose this much out without visible smoke from exhaust? I don't know if there is smoke when riding at 100+ km. But since its lockdown I was not able to go for long rides and in the last 1000 kms I haven't spend much time at 100kmph or plus. Any help would be great since I'm confused now.
    The mechanics around here are not very good. If anyone has any idea about this, please shed some light.
    Thanks in advance.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Excessive oil losing.

    Thread Approved!

    Are piston rings alright? Newer spares are soft(er) than before and they tend to give in, way sooner!
    Additionally, what amount of oil are you filling? Oil blow-by in AF box could be due to potential overfilling.
    What clearances are maintained for inlet and exhaust valves?
    What oil grade are you using?
    Why are you not sticking to mineral oil?
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    • #3
      Re: Excessive oil losing.

      INCREASED OR high oil consumption in the engine is a common case and that is why gains our attention. Firstly car owners wonder what is considered to be excessive or high consumption of oil? Secondly why do we have such increased oil consumption? And the last question: what to do? Let's start from the beginning.
      Excessive oil consumption: causes, common problems, consequences, troubleshooting | ATOMIUM
      https://atomium.eu/home/excessive-oil-consumption/
      INCREASED OR high oil consumption in the engine is a common case and that is why gains our attention.
      Last edited by Divya Sharan; 07-06-2020, 01:53 PM.
      Speed Test

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      • #4
        Re: Excessive oil losing.

        Do you observe any bluish/white smoke at the first start of engine?

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        • #5
          Re: Excessive oil losing.

          Mechanic said piston and rings were fine when we changed the valves. But that was 20k kms ago.
          I drain the oil as much as possible and then pour 1 litre oil. I'm sure that you know 900ml is manufacture recommended quantity while changing oil but a lot of karizma users are filling 1 litre.
          The reason I shifted to semi or fully synth is the smoothness. I usually buy from amazon or flipkart on offer. Yesterday i filled 1 litre zic m9 10w40 I bought weeks ago from amazon. Should have used mineral since the consumption is too much but only after draining i realized this much oil is burned. And my only option was to go with the synthetic I have stocked.
          Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
          Thread Approved!

          Are piston rings alright? Newer spares are soft(er) than before and they tend to give in, way sooner!
          Additionally, what amount of oil are you filling? Oil blow-by in AF box could be due to potential overfilling.
          What clearances are maintained for inlet and exhaust valves?
          What oil grade are you using?
          Why are you not sticking to mineral oil?

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Excessive oil losing.

            No. That is what confuses me. If there was smoke I would go to my mechanic and ask him to open the head and inspect the condition of the rings. No idea where the oil is going.
            Originally posted by Tushar 26 View Post
            Do you observe any bluish/white smoke at the first start of engine?

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Excessive oil losing.

              Originally posted by rydergeorge View Post
              No. That is what confuses me. If there was smoke I would go to my mechanic and ask him to open the head and inspect the condition of the rings. No idea where the oil is going.
              Engine Oil in Air Filter Compartment could be due to..
              a) worn out inlet valve oil seals and valve stems.
              b) excessive oil passing, resulted discharged through engine breather pipe into Air Filter Compartment.

              Better to get valve stems and seals replaced. Later, see if problem still persist then go for block piston change.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Excessive oil losing.

                Originally posted by Tushar 26 View Post
                Engine Oil in Air Filter Compartment could be due to..
                a) worn out inlet valve oil seals and valve stems.
                b) excessive oil passing, resulted discharged through engine breather pipe into Air Filter Compartment.

                Better to get valve stems and seals replaced. Later, see if problem still persist then go for block piston change.
                There is not much oil in air filter compartment to cause 400+ ml shortage in just 1k kilometers.
                The oil drained yesterday was semi synth which was filled before 2k kms. When it reached 1 k, I checked the oil level and found oil level is really low. (But I used the bike at high rpm for hours so I thought that might be the reason.) Since the oil has done only 1 k, I topped it up with same grade oil to max level in dipstick. And 1 k kms after topping up, the level was really low again and the drained oil was only near 600 ml. Can valve oil seals and stem cause this much oil consumption? Valve oil seals were replaced but it was also 20k kms ago.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Excessive oil losing.

                  Consult a good mechanic you know. Most of the times, when you take your bike to service centres for engine related work; they make a paraphernalia of engine components to be replaced. However, not all parts required premature replacement. Like in this case they say, block piston, valves, valves stem oil seals, cam etc.etc.

                  There are two channels, from where engine oil enters combustion chamber:
                  a) Through piston rings, when either oil rings are worn or damaged cylinder liner.
                  b) Through worn valve stems and oil seal.

                  I hope you never have ridden with a very low level of engine oil. From your statements I can see that you keep a good check on engine oil level and religiously top it up, whenever required. So there are chances that other parts are in good shape.

                  If cylinder compression is still good then, it should be through faulty valve stem and oil seal, else it should be through piston rings or both.



                  I
                  .

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Excessive oil losing.

                    Originally posted by Tushar 26 View Post
                    Consult a good mechanic you know. Most of the times, when you take your bike to service centres for engine related work; they make a paraphernalia of engine components to be replaced. However, not all parts required premature replacement. Like in this case they say, block piston, valves, valves stem oil seals, cam etc.etc.

                    There are two channels, from where engine oil enters combustion chamber:
                    a) Through piston rings, when either oil rings are worn or damaged cylinder liner.
                    b) Through worn valve stems and oil seal.

                    I hope you never have ridden with a very low level of engine oil. From your statements I can see that you keep a good check on engine oil level and religiously top it up, whenever required. So there are chances that other parts are in good shape.

                    If cylinder compression is still good then, it should be through faulty valve stem and oil seal, else it should be through piston rings or both.



                    I
                    .
                    The thing is, previous owner has used the bike with no care. So far I've replaced every single part that I could find in bad shape. The last two times, engine oil level has gone low (around 600 ml both times). The mechanic I usually consult is actually a good one. But only if I stay in his workshop and remind him of my bike from morning to evening he will work on it[emoji51]. That too because we are friendly. I know bikes which were brought there to repair for more than 6 months ago. Since it's covid time, I'm not comfortable in spending whole day somewhere I can't maintain social distancing. But it seems like I have no other option.
                    I have one doubt. Will a motorcycle with damaged cylinder walls or rings will be able to clock almost the same top speed when it is in mint condition?

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Excessive oil losing.

                      Originally posted by rydergeorge View Post
                      The thing is, previous owner has used the bike with no care. So far I've replaced every single part that I could find in bad shape. The last two times, engine oil level has gone low (around 600 ml both times). The mechanic I usually consult is actually a good one. But only if I stay in his workshop and remind him of my bike from morning to evening he will work on it[emoji51]. That too because we are friendly. I know bikes which were brought there to repair for more than 6 months ago. Since it's covid time, I'm not comfortable in spending whole day somewhere I can't maintain social distancing. But it seems like I have no other option.
                      I have one doubt. Will a motorcycle with damaged cylinder walls or rings will be able to clock almost the same top speed when it is in mint condition?
                      No... A bike with damaged rings or cylinder walls won't, because of low compression. I think in your bike's valve seals have given up a little bit.

                      Bhai... I advice you to reduce your speed on highways and better get it repaired once the situation gets normal.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Excessive oil losing.

                        Originally posted by Tushar 26 View Post
                        No... A bike with damaged rings or cylinder walls won't, because of low compression. I think in your bike's valve seals have given up a little bit.

                        Bhai... I advice you to reduce your speed on highways and better get it repaired once the situation gets normal.
                        Will visit the workshop and get the valve seals checked. Regarding the speed, I don't overspeed in cities man. I go fast only when I'm doing interstate rides. That happens automatically[emoji23]. Whenever I look at speedo I find I'm doing 100+ and slow down thinking about not stressing the engine but after sometime it happens again[emoji58]. Anyway thank you so much for your advices brother. Will get it checked and let you know[emoji4]. Stay safe

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Excessive oil losing.

                          Originally posted by rydergeorge View Post
                          Will a motorcycle with damaged cylinder walls or rings will be able to clock almost the same top speed when it is in mint condition?
                          Practically yes, depending on the extent of the damage. And then again, you don't really know your bike's actual potential on the speedometer so there might have been a degradation in top speed already.

                          I can give you a nice hobby. Start exploring the idea of fixing the stuff yourself if you have time, patience and working space. It's an old bike with parts being relatively cheaper. Good learning and great satisfaction.
                          Contribute to the environment.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Excessive oil losing.

                            Originally posted by nirvaana View Post
                            Practically yes, depending on the extent of the damage. And then again, you don't really know your bike's actual potential on the speedometer so there might have been a degradation in top speed already.

                            I can give you a nice hobby. Start exploring the idea of fixing the stuff yourself if you have time, patience and working space. It's an old bike with parts being relatively cheaper. Good learning and great satisfaction.
                            I don't trust speedometer. Since my tyre sizes are not stock, I guess there will be more error than a normal speedo difference. 115-120 is gps speed. I do all the basic works myself at home. Not confident enough to do engine works myslef. Will go to workshop and observe the mechanic working so next time I may be able to do it myself.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Excessive oil losing.

                              Originally posted by rydergeorge View Post
                              I don't trust speedometer. Since my tyre sizes are not stock, I guess there will be more error than a normal speedo difference. 115-120 is gps speed. I do all the basic works myself at home. Not confident enough to do engine works myslef. Will go to workshop and observe the mechanic working so next time I may be able to do it myself.
                              I can give you a small advice.
                              Ride your bike for half an hour a little bit faster 60-70kmph is enough or maybe little more. Thing is ride for considerable time until engine gets pretty hot.
                              now when the engine is hot and while you are still to reach home...
                              Now stop and place your bike on centre stand and give enough throttle or may be full throttle for may be 3 seconds..
                              now you will find your answer with smoke..

                              The thing is many bikes will not smoke when they are cool enough and we will not observe with full throttle when bike is hot enough. We will just think that bike is already hot and wouldnot care about to check the smoke and put it in parking.

                              As per as i have heard valve guides when they have problem and are hot may leak thereby giving smoke.
                              also we can't blame just the head with valves, oil seals and guides. As you know Piston, rings bore also plays a role in smoking.

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