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Apache RTR Fi severe Knocking @3k-6k Rpm (done only 1600Kms)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SAMUEL-Fi View Post
    Hi remortr (Remo-RTR) ,
    Thanks for the detailed reply for my query.I'm sorry I couldn't update the thread as I was out of town during diwali.
    I got my bike back but the problem is still there. The SC guys have checked the ECU, Spark plug,fuel pump and and finally concluded that it's the problem with Fuel quality.Now my question is whether if the Fuel quality is bad will it knock only when the engine gets warmed up or will it knock right from the beginning when the engine is cold?Moreover I get knocking within 4 kms of riding(& little crawling) in traffic in the morning. The first 2-3 kms it's fine.
    And everyday morning I use only Kick start and warm up for @least 1min.

    Btw I never got a proper reply from the SC guys and they were damn sure the Petrol quality was the issue.I had Half tank petrol then, so couldn't take out 7-8 litres of fuel and check then & there.If it's carburettor then we could have fixed a beaker and checked but in Fi it's not possible.

    These issues apart, the petrol I usually fill is from a Reputed Bunk in T.nagar(Bpcl-Speed) and another one is in Saidapet(IOC-Xtra Premium).
    And I don't use any additional fuel additives.My splendor, my friends pulsar150, a Dio all runs well with petrol from these bunks,only my Fi is struggling.
    Fuel gauge has started to blink now and this weekend I'm planning to fill up my bike with 5-6 litres of Shell Unleaded( Company operated) to check.If the problem still persists I don't know what else to do. I told the SC to check timing but these lazy bones are reluctant to open the head,and they are saying the originality will be spoiled.

    The person from TVS never responded after I gave my bike for repairing.Didn't even cared to call up to know the status, but since it was festival season I let go of him.

    But other than this issue, the bike is flying when I ride it alone. With pillion it doesn't pull as strongly. Fuel efficiency has been around 50-54 (Full Tank-Full Tank method) and with revs mostly below 4.5k rpm with rare occasional burst to 7-8k rpm in 2nd & 3rd gear.Kms covered as on date is 1868.

    And once again thanks Remo for the pictures, I'll keep in mind the Valve lapping issue, and thanks everyone for sparing your time for reading thru.

    God Bless
    Regards,
    Sam
    The knocking my be due to auto ignition ( dieseling)?. Since the problem starts when the engine is unusually hot, the fuel mixture may be igniting earlier due to the excessive heat. On a carburatted vehicle in this situation, if you switch off the engine it may still run for a few seconds signalling auto ignition. On FI since switching off cuts off the fuel, this action cannot be observed. For a change why don't you try normal petrol + IFTEX-G (I think it is) and observe whether it knocks.

    Note:-
    Normally FI enviornmental friendly vehicles engine runs at a higher temperature.
    sigpic

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    • #17
      VijayKrishna: Thank you very much for the info.I'll contact him today itself.
      I'm sorry ,I've been out of town on an assignment,so couldn't reply you.
      Once again thanks.

      sudharma:Thank you very much. Well the knocking occurs after a few Km's (3-5km) of casual riding i.e less than 5k rpm and mostly in 3-3.5k rpm and speed 40-50km/hr.Only when I blip to overtake or speed up suddenly I'm getting this issue.So I'm sure the engine is not too hot but in optimum operating temperature.I've experienced auto ignitions, especially in 2 stroke vehicles but nothing of that sort in RTR Fi.
      I've tried with Normal Unleaded Petrol,Xtra premium & Speed till now and have not used any extra additive.Some say it's good and some say it's bad so didn't try.
      Now the last bar is blinking so I'm planning to fill 5lts of Shell Super Unleaded this afternoon and check.If problem still persists I'm going with VijayKrishna's suggestion.Will keep you updated.

      Thanks everyone.
      Regards,
      Samuel
      People are like Motorcycles: Each is customized a bit differently.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SAMUEL-Fi View Post
        VijayKrishna: Thank you very much for the info.I'll contact him today itself.
        I'm sorry ,I've been out of town on an assignment,so couldn't reply you.
        Once again thanks.

        sudharma:Thank you very much. Well the knocking occurs after a few Km's (3-5km) of casual riding i.e less than 5k rpm and mostly in 3-3.5k rpm and speed 40-50km/hr.Only when I blip to overtake or speed up suddenly I'm getting this issue.So I'm sure the engine is not too hot but in optimum operating temperature.I've experienced auto ignitions, especially in 2 stroke vehicles but nothing of that sort in RTR Fi.
        I've tried with Normal Unleaded Petrol,Xtra premium & Speed till now and have not used any extra additive.Some say it's good and some say it's bad so didn't try.
        Now the last bar is blinking so I'm planning to fill 5lts of Shell Super Unleaded this afternoon and check.If problem still persists I'm going with VijayKrishna's suggestion.Will keep you updated.

        Thanks everyone.
        Regards,
        Samuel

        Samuel,
        Let me start like this "Every bike and car in this Earth have their own problems"

        But I could understand ur situation, after spending a good amount of money and if the product is giving problem, we get frustrated.

        Please first cool down yourself and think about the problem. Do not try so many suggestions like changing fuel from diff. bulks , at the same time.

        No bike experts are recommending high Octane fuels like Xtrapremium, Speed for small bikes we are using in India. (Any bike in sub-250 cc is considered small!!!).

        you are getting this problem only when you accelerate at a certain speed ,by this, we could find that the problem exists in ur fuel supply system. It is not properly responding to ur throttle.
        Check for fuel injector block or any ECU malfunction. Are u hearing any misfiring (thud..thuddd...burst) from the exhaust?

        Ask the service person to change the parts in warranty, if there is a mal-function.

        One more thing, have you done your "run-in" (first 1000+ km) properly?. At any time have you noticed water entry into ur electronic parts or fuel tank...?

        Keep mailing ...ur updates. All the best

        Comment


        • #19
          @ samuel:- knocking sound tht u r complaining abt may b a result of loose tappet settings n ofcourse this tappet noise issue is common in all rtr's,
          i ownd mine fi on july 08 at tht time m facing the same issues with acceleration n power lag b/w 3k-4k rpm range.
          bt all issues were sorted out after injector kit replacement as mine belongs to initial lot.

          regards
          sarab
          BIKING ??? " A RELIGION "

          Comment


          • #20
            use good fuel

            hi sam i request u to use only unlead petrol only. because in the FI the fuel injection performs the atomized spray of fuel so that we get more power than carb.if u use power petrol means it will leads highi burn than normal.at first few km your bike will wake up like any thing after some kms the engine get over heat then it leads to konocking even in 2nd,3d .see the pic u know what is the atomized spray of fuel .

            Comment


            • #21
              Update: Bike now done 1996.3Km.Strange Improvements

              Hi remo,
              Thank you very much for the very clear explanation.But I've already filled up with 5 litres of Shell Super unleaded this weekend to check if it cures the knocking.And guess what, the first day the bike felt very reluctant to rev freely but felt a little bit torquey and I still heard knocking.Felt very sad again.Now yesterday night when I was returning from office I let loose.Clipped 100km/hr within a short distance and I was feeling WOW.I ran out of road and again started cruising at a normal 45-50km/hr.I tried hard but I didn't hear much knocking at all .
              Today also it's behaving properly,no hi-speeds just flowing along with mad traffic.
              May be the hard throttle openings has just cleaned the injectors.My Fi's third service is coming this month end,shall I'll ask the SC to clean the injectors if required.And maybe before that I'll try ordinary unleaded petrol too.
              bala_racing: Thank you very much bala for your concern.I'm sorry I couldn't reply you earlier.Yes you are right, I do hear loud pops from the silencer when I change gear or while decelerating.
              Last time the SC guys checked the ECU and said everything is fine but I'm pretty sure they didn't check the Injectors.In fact those guys are reluctant to touch the engine,injectors etc saying it'll screw up the originality.
              SARAB_FI :Thanks.I'll tell the SC to check the injectors very carefully in this 3rd service.

              I am sure that I have followed the Run-in very religiously.Never crossed 3-3.5k during the initial 1000km's.After servicing (Oil change) for few days the engine seems very smooth but few days later and riding in heavy traffic the tappets make more noise and engine feels crude.May be the TVS Tru4 oil is not at all doing justice to this short stroke engine.
              Do you guys recommend a different engine oil especially considering the bike has done only 1996.3 Km's as on date.

              I have taken extreme care while cleaning the bike.I've read the manual and do's & don't while washing an Fi bike and take care especially where the Sensors are located.I'm not sure whether they have followed the same in Service Center.It has started to rain here in chennai (Finally) and Trust me my bike is actually parked inside my room ... from day 1.I'll post some pics soon.I really love my bike but It makes me sad sometimes but I am not going to loose hope and I know what this bike is capable of.
              Hope TVS sees this thread.It's not only me but many other bikers who love their bikes and pamper them to no ends.

              Now for the time being I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
              Thank you everyone for your kind support, guidance and everything.
              Extremely Happy to be in Xbhp and proud to be an Xbhpian.
              I'll keep updating...
              God bless us all

              Regards,
              Samuel

              PS: Dear Moderators if you think this thread should be linked to "Motorcycle ownership experiences" thread,Please do the needy.Thanks.
              Last edited by SAMUEL-Fi; 11-03-2009, 04:04 PM. Reason: Spelling corrected
              People are like Motorcycles: Each is customized a bit differently.

              Comment


              • #22
                SOME BODY PLS EXPLAIN ME IN DETAIL...WHAT IS KNOCKING AND HOW COME I KNOW IF MY BIKE IS KNOCKING???
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                • #23
                  Good to know your problem is solved now. In addition to the injectors, please get the valve clearances checked at the next service.
                  I would advise against 91 octane fuel as this leaves deposits on the plugs for bikes with lesser than 10.0:1 engine compression ratio.
                  Quench my thirst with gasoline!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Thanks Sarvajit.I'll take your points as well. And I will revert back to normal Unleaded petrol.
                    Cheers,
                    Sam
                    People are like Motorcycles: Each is customized a bit differently.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Use Bardahl additive it result in good i am using reguarly when oil was changed

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by remortr View Post
                        Use Bardahl additive it result in good i am using reguarly when oil was changed
                        I tried it on Saturday when the engine oil was refilled. Also got Iftex petrol additive, which supposedly cleans injectors, carburettor etc. Maybe you can try that also-it is available in bottles as well as sachets. Works upto 1000kms.it seems!
                        Quench my thirst with gasoline!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sarvajit View Post
                          I tried it on Saturday when the engine oil was refilled. Also got Iftex petrol additive, which supposedly cleans injectors, carburettor etc. Maybe you can try that also-it is available in bottles as well as sachets. Works upto 1000kms.it seems!
                          how much it cost .petrol additive will make any damage to fi parts ?or its compulsory for fi bikes?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Use un-leaded petrol it will solve the engine knocking problem. I once filled Shell Super , my bike was knocking whenever I rev hard . After that I did not even use Shell. Now BP un-leaded only. Use the authorized petrol buck for filling petrol. BTW where r u in Chennai? There is TVS petrol bunk back of sathyam theater,Try that.
                            Last edited by krishnan6015; 11-12-2009, 09:06 PM.
                            Accidents hurt - safety doesn't
                            Always Wear Helmet While Riding
                            sigpic

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                            • #29
                              Hi

                              Hi krishnan6015,
                              Thank you very much.Strangely for me the shell super has reduced the knocking problem a lot but it's still there.But I'm definitely switching back to normal unleaded petrol as suggested by many here.BTW I stay near Saidapet,Little mount.
                              Thanks for your concern.
                              Cheers,
                              Sam
                              People are like Motorcycles: Each is customized a bit differently.

                              Comment

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