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KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

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  • Skanda
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post
    Finally! The basket slots are nothing to worry about Skanda. It's always recommended to replace the clutch basket along with clutch plates. I hope you've replaced the pressure plate too along with a new clutch bearing. Sometimes, a clutch bearing would seem good, but once in action they start to dance around their axis and make that signature clanking sound. Yes, new engine oil for new is THE WAY to go. Do not use old oil on a new clutch system.

    Give it a few days, let the clutch bed in and keep your observations posted.

    Cheers!
    VJ
    Forgot to mention the bearing. Old bearing had bit of wobble and it was replaced. Both clutch and preasure plates were replaced and even the oil filter with a new one.

    Leave a comment:


  • B7ACKTHORN
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by Skanda View Post
    Replaced the complete clutch and basket assembly and all the clutch related issue seems to be sorted out. The clutch feels so light and pick up seems to have increased. Previously, slotting the gear to Neutral was painful task and now it's butter smooth.

    However, the mild clanking noise in lower rpm when revved bit hard is still there.

    The old basket (is this the inner basket?) had slots due to clutch plates, is this normal? New ones were smooth with no slots.

    The inner bolt was installed and was locked using threadlocker. I insisted on using a threadlocker but the technician told it was not required. The old oil, though had run only for 800kms, was replaced with new one due to the new clutch.
    Finally! The basket slots are nothing to worry about Skanda. It's always recommended to replace the clutch basket along with clutch plates. I hope you've replaced the pressure plate too along with a new clutch bearing. Sometimes, a clutch bearing would seem good, but once in action they start to dance around their axis and make that signature clanking sound. Yes, new engine oil for new is THE WAY to go. Do not use old oil on a new clutch system.

    Give it a few days, let the clutch bed in and keep your observations posted.

    Cheers!
    VJ

    Leave a comment:


  • Skanda
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by Skanda View Post
    Sure thing [emoji106]. Will get this done soon.
    Replaced the complete clutch and basket assembly and all the clutch related issue seems to be sorted out. The clutch feels so light and pick up seems to have increased. Previously, slotting the gear to Neutral was painful task and now it's butter smooth.

    However, the mild clanking noise in lower rpm when revved bit hard is still there.

    The old basket (is this the inner basket?) had slots due to clutch plates, is this normal? New ones were smooth with no slots.

    The inner bolt was installed and was locked using threadlocker. I insisted on using a threadlocker but the technician told it was not required. The old oil, though had run only for 800kms, was replaced with new one due to the new clutch. Click image for larger version

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  • ashwinprakas
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Hi KTM People,

    Would anyone be able to share the distance between your motorcycles swing-arm at the point where the axle bolt goes through, also would need the distance between the wheel hubs outer edges, measurement to be taken with the help of the axle bolt, and finally the size of the metal wheel spacer.


    Wanted to know if the KTM's rear alloy can be accommodated for the Pulsar 220, also can NS<>KTM alloys be interchanged?


    Thanks in advance.


    Cheers,
    A.P.

    Leave a comment:


  • B7ACKTHORN
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by raju22 View Post
    Thanks for confirming with your mechanic Vijay sir. I was able to go ahead with the engine rebuild at last.

    Here are some data from the OBD scanner.

    Intake manifold pressure - Mostly around 9 to 10 psi.
    Intake air temp - Max of 57° C. (Is it too high?)
    Vacuum - Fluctuates a lot with throttle inputs. Not sure which sensor and at which place this is measured.
    Timing advance - 9 to 12° at idle.
    Volts - At idle 14 to 14.8 volts. I think the stator coil is doing its job.

    Time taken for radiator fan to come on (coolant temp hits 96° C) - 8:11.
    Coolant temp to reduce from 96° C to 90° C - 2:18

    I was worried about abnormal engine temps so I used an IR thermometer and measured the temp at different points.
    This was after revving the bike from 2000 to 5000 rpm for some time. Coolant temp - 100°C.

    Engine head(Valvetrain right side) - 92° C
    Engine Head(Cylinder area right side) - 85° C
    Magneto Cover - 89° C
    Clutch cover - 74° C
    Exhaust pipe at idle - 240-280° C
    Catalytic Converter - 133°C
    Welcome back Raju. I'll try to be as brief as possible, starting with the valve clearances. They are perfect, nothing to fiddle with. Secondly, I did go through the entire video of the diag, and it seems everything's as it should be. The fan kicks in rightly at 96 degrees and turns off at 90 odd, so your cooling system is working as it's should be. Rest of the readings are sensitive to throttle inputs, as they vary according to the RPM.

    Coming to the temperature values, those values are absolutely fine, nothing to worry about. You have more reading on the cylinder surface, even more higher on the exhaust bend pipe and fluctuating readings on the radiator once the fan kicks. With an IR thermo, you can practically see the radiator cooling as the fan kicks in, so again you're perfect on the temperature part.


    Rings, like piston do need to bed in, but not as how a piston is bedded in, you can rev the engine freely, hit top whack. Make sure the engine isn't highly revved where the ECM kicks in to cut the RPM. Yes, mild leaks in the piston where the air bled off during the bench test, and your lovely piston skirt test with ratios confirms it. My advice would have been to have replaced the piston along with the rings, considering the bore inner diameter was within spec.


    Did you check the compression ratio before and after the rings were installed? Ideal compression ratio should definitely be above 190 psi which would mean 13 to 14 kg/cm2. Near 100 or lesser than 100 psi would mean, we have blowby loss, which is attributed to the worn piston rings and a piston skirt that's values are off by a good margin, which would mean replacement of either the rings or piston with rings, it's usually the latter that's the best course of action.

    I'd suggest you to check your compression, that's first, both warm and cold.
    Secondly, was your throttle body and injector considered an overhaul for cleaning.

    Lovely work as always.

    Here's a link for you.



    Where I've answered query on a similar line.

    https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcy...ences-985.html

    Hope it helps!

    Keep your observations posted.

    Cheers!
    VJ
    Last edited by B7ACKTHORN; 02-19-2019, 05:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • s1d
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by raju22 View Post
    Thanks for confirming with your mechanic Vijay sir. I was able to go ahead with the engine rebuild at last.


    TL;DR
    Leak down test on the bench detected leak through crankcase.Piston slightly out of spec. Went ahead with rebuild anyway. OBD scanner detected Fault code P0650-Powertrain [Malfunction Indicator Lamp(ML) Control Circuit] before startup. Engine starts fine when cold and idles normally. Warm engine(70-80°C) will only start with slight throttle input.Brand new throttle cable installed but barely any freeplay(1mm). OBD data video included.
    do run it in for a few 100km to break in the new rings.
    get the official diag tool connected and checked at the svc for the right info on error codes and fix accordingly.
    i am guessing either the tps or idle control stepper motor might be causing the idling issue.
    if possible compare the values from the official diag tool, with readings from another 390 of same model yr.

    Leave a comment:


  • raju22
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post
    Confirmed with my mechanic here. They are a direct fit. One word of caution he mentioned is to check and get the right gasket, as the 250 and 390 have almost similar gaskets, and it's easy to get confused. The part number you mentioned for the new gasket is right for the D390 and it's a direct fit for the older models i.e. 2015-2018/19.

    Cheers!
    VJ
    Thanks for confirming with your mechanic Vijay sir. I was able to go ahead with the engine rebuild at last.


    TL;DR
    Leak down test on the bench detected leak through crankcase.Piston slightly out of spec. Went ahead with rebuild anyway. OBD scanner detected Fault code P0650-Powertrain [Malfunction Indicator Lamp(ML) Control Circuit] before startup. Engine starts fine when cold and idles normally. Warm engine(70-80°C) will only start with slight throttle input.Brand new throttle cable installed but barely any freeplay(1mm). OBD data video included.

    Long version:
    Coming to the rebuild, the new head gasket was used and all bolts were torqued to spec with a torque wrench.
    Brand new items in the engine :
    1. Both Exhaust valves
    2. Piston Rings
    3. Stator coil
    4. Valve Stem seals
    5. Engine oil - New cans of Motul 7100 10W50
    6. Coolant - Motul Inugel Expert Coolant.
    7. NGK iridium spark plug

    Did a leak down test of the engine on the bench and found some air escaping from the port where you check for TDC. No air leaking from the valves though. Adding a bit of oil on the piston increased the psi reading and also reduced the air leak. Opened everything again and measured the piston and cylinder. Cylinder was OK but piston was slightly out of spec. Piston diameter was 88.91 at the skirt. [Required 88.931mm...88.949mm]. I've read that new piston rings take time to bed in with the cylinder walls. Could this also be responsible for the leak? Anyways, I've gone ahead with the rebuild. New piston set costs 7500/- and it's not in stock. Might have to change it in the future. Will take a call once I get the valuable expert opinions.

    Valve clearance at TDC is as follows(L&R): Intake - 0.10mm & 0.10mm , Exhaust - 0.14mm & 0.17mm

    I've used an OBD scanner and torque pro app for data acquisition.
    My biggest mistake was not taking any measurements using the OBD scanner before the rebuild. I can't compare the new data with anything now.

    Before starting the engine I checked for fault codes and there was one : P0650-Powertrain [Malfunction Indicator Lamp(ML) Control Circuit]. Now I've checked online and the general consensus is that it's a bit difficult to nail the location of this error. It could be the wiring or the check engine lamp or any sensors in the electrical circuit.
    Clearing it doesn't make it go away. I'll have to take it to the service centre to sort it out. The check engine lamp works fine though - It flashed an error code when I disconnected the Lambda sensor. Any other place I need to check? Also, can't say if the error was there before or after the rebuild.

    Pressed the starter and the engine cranked 4 times and nothing. This happened twice. The third time it came to life instantly and settled to its 1800-2000 rpm idle. No visible smoke from the exhaust. Ran it only for a minute.

    Next day ran the engine for a longer duration. Time of day 1:00pm. Ambient air temp - 33°C. I let the bike just idle.
    First start impressions: There's still a lot of vibration at idle but reduces at higher rpms. I'd say same as before.
    First ride impressions: On the move it feels like a different bike. Vibrations have reduced across the rpm band. Before, I felt something was holding it back but now it feels free. This was just a short ride of 2 km. This Sunday I'll go for a slightly longer ride and do further tests.

    Do I need to break-in the engine once again for the piston rings to bed in?

    Issues faced: Bike does not start once it has warmed up. A little bit of throttle has to be opened while thumbing the starter. This is audible in the video below at 11:51. This used to never happen before. So something is not right. I installed a new throttle cable and there's barely any freeplay even after adjusting - maybe just 1mm. Could this be the reason?

    The video shows OBD data at idle and later during a short ride. I've included chapters for the relevant bits so that one doesn't have to watch the whole video.


    O2 sensor oscillation starts at 3:48
    Radiator fan comes on (96°C) at 8:10
    Coolant temp drops to 90°C at 10:29
    First ride after rebuild at 11:51

    Here are some data from the OBD scanner.

    Intake manifold pressure - Mostly around 9 to 10 psi.
    Intake air temp - Max of 57° C. (Is it too high?)
    Vacuum - Fluctuates a lot with throttle inputs. Not sure which sensor and at which place this is measured.
    Timing advance - 9 to 12° at idle.
    Volts - At idle 14 to 14.8 volts. I think the stator coil is doing its job.

    Time taken for radiator fan to come on (coolant temp hits 96° C) - 8:11.
    Coolant temp to reduce from 96° C to 90° C - 2:18

    I was worried about abnormal engine temps so I used an IR thermometer and measured the temp at different points.
    This was after revving the bike from 2000 to 5000 rpm for some time. Coolant temp - 100°C.

    Engine head(Valvetrain right side) - 92° C
    Engine Head(Cylinder area right side) - 85° C
    Magneto Cover - 89° C
    Clutch cover - 74° C
    Exhaust pipe at idle - 240-280° C
    Catalytic Converter - 133°C

    Experts please tell me if the values are OK or not.

    Some before and after pics.
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    Last edited by raju22; 02-19-2019, 08:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Skanda
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post
    Clutch, tires, cables all depends on the ussage Skanda, so it varies from person to person. 19k is a good clutch life and can even be extended till 20k plus if you don't see any hiccups in performance. But since the basket is being replaced, it's advisable to replace the plates together, as once removed from basket, the clutch plate friction material can thin out and cause sudden performance drop, so it's wise to get them replaced as a set along with the basket.

    Cheers!
    VJ
    Sure thing [emoji106]. Will get this done soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • B7ACKTHORN
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by Skanda View Post
    Plates were never replaced. Stock one from factory and have fun 19K Kms. What's the usual lifespan (Kms) for the clutch?
    Clutch, tires, cables all depends on the ussage Skanda, so it varies from person to person. 19k is a good clutch life and can even be extended till 20k plus if you don't see any hiccups in performance. But since the basket is being replaced, it's advisable to replace the plates together, as once removed from basket, the clutch plate friction material can thin out and cause sudden performance drop, so it's wise to get them replaced as a set along with the basket.

    Cheers!
    VJ

    Leave a comment:


  • Skanda
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post
    The sooner the better Skanda. Clutch are high stress components due to the beating they take from the power. The sooner it's checked and replaced, the better peace of mind later on. Strongly recommend you to change the basket, and the plates depending on when it was last replaced.

    Cheers!
    VJ
    Plates were never replaced. Stock one from factory and have fun 19K Kms. What's the usual lifespan (Kms) for the clutch?

    Leave a comment:


  • B7ACKTHORN
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by Skanda View Post
    You're a savior! This is exactly what might be happening. Just read through issues with Duke clutch basket on KTMForums and I didn't even knew what clutch basket is and I seem to have issues with clutch frequently. Got the cable changed recently as well. Do you think this requires a urgent fix or is it fine if I run for 1K or 2k Kms with this condition?
    The sooner the better Skanda. Clutch are high stress components due to the beating they take from the power. The sooner it's checked and replaced, the better peace of mind later on. Strongly recommend you to change the basket, and the plates depending on when it was last replaced.

    Cheers!
    VJ

    Leave a comment:


  • NitinGirish
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post
    It's time to check your caliper piston and piston seals. Faulty piston seals would cause sponginess and saggy/grabby brakes. The piston should come in and out smoothly. If we have faulty seals or dust accumulation in the caliper, this hinders the piston movement and causes grabby and saggy brakes. Also a worn front brake pad would mean excessive piston travel which would result in spongy brakes. Secondly, air in line, improperly bled system would definitely have air in line can bring this saggy symptoms after a while.

    1. Check your front caliper piston seals.
    2. Check your brake pad wear.
    3. Rebleed the system.

    Worse case, it can also be a faulty master cylinder piston. But check this for now and keep your observations posted.

    @Skanda and Iman Jaffer, the sound you guys might be experiencing can also be due to faulty clutch basket, which has developed play. That clank sound can in fact be caused by the basket rivets getting lose over time and causing play when suddenly accelerating and not when accelerating slowly. Solution is to replace the clutch basket. Clicked to me now. Nevertheless, keep your observations posted.

    Cheers!
    VJ
    Thank You Vijay, I will try a different SVC this time and report back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Skanda
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post
    It's time to check your caliper piston and piston seals. Faulty piston seals would cause sponginess and saggy/grabby brakes. The piston should come in and out smoothly. If we have faulty seals or dust accumulation in the caliper, this hinders the piston movement and causes grabby and saggy brakes. Also a worn front brake pad would mean excessive piston travel which would result in spongy brakes. Secondly, air in line, improperly bled system would definitely have air in line can bring this saggy symptoms after a while.

    1. Check your front caliper piston seals.
    2. Check your brake pad wear.
    3. Rebleed the system.

    Worse case, it can also be a faulty master cylinder piston. But check this for now and keep your observations posted.

    [MENTION=16543]Skanda[/MENTION] and Iman Jaffer, the sound you guys might be experiencing can also be due to faulty clutch basket, which has developed play. That clank sound can in fact be caused by the basket rivets getting lose over time and causing play when suddenly accelerating and not when accelerating slowly. Solution is to replace the clutch basket. Clicked to me now. Nevertheless, keep your observations posted.

    Cheers!
    VJ
    You're a savior! This is exactly what might be happening. Just read through issues with Duke clutch basket on KTMForums and I didn't even knew what clutch basket is and I seem to have issues with clutch frequently. Got the cable changed recently as well. Do you think this requires a urgent fix or is it fine if I run for 1K or 2k Kms with this condition?

    Leave a comment:


  • B7ACKTHORN
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Originally posted by NitinGirish View Post
    Front brake issue has come back to haunt me again! MC was changed, brake was bled twice but all in vain. It works well for 80-100kms and then its back to square one.

    I need to use four fingers to pull the brake lever and only then the brake engages. Earlier, only two fingers were enough. Heck, even my 32 year old RX100 brakes better than my five year old D390.

    The lever travel is just too much and once, for a split second, the lever didn't come back!

    MC changed, fluid changed, bleeding done. What else do I check?

    It feels better when I tie a velcro to brake lever and leave it overnight. But ofcourse, thats only a temp solution.
    It's time to check your caliper piston and piston seals. Faulty piston seals would cause sponginess and saggy/grabby brakes. The piston should come in and out smoothly. If we have faulty seals or dust accumulation in the caliper, this hinders the piston movement and causes grabby and saggy brakes. Also a worn front brake pad would mean excessive piston travel which would result in spongy brakes. Secondly, air in line, improperly bled system would definitely have air in line can bring this saggy symptoms after a while.

    1. Check your front caliper piston seals.
    2. Check your brake pad wear.
    3. Rebleed the system.

    Worse case, it can also be a faulty master cylinder piston. But check this for now and keep your observations posted.

    [MENTION=16543]Skanda[/MENTION] and Iman Jaffer, the sound you guys might be experiencing can also be due to faulty clutch basket, which has developed play. That clank sound can in fact be caused by the basket rivets getting lose over time and causing play when suddenly accelerating and not when accelerating slowly. Solution is to replace the clutch basket. Clicked to me now. Nevertheless, keep your observations posted.

    Cheers!
    VJ
    Last edited by B7ACKTHORN; 02-07-2019, 04:13 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • NitinGirish
    replied
    Re: KTM Duke 390 - Ownership Reviews and Experiences

    Front brake issue has come back to haunt me again! MC was changed, brake was bled twice but all in vain. It works well for 80-100kms and then its back to square one.

    I need to use four fingers to pull the brake lever and only then the brake engages. Earlier, only two fingers were enough. Heck, even my 32 year old RX100 brakes better than my five year old D390.

    The lever travel is just too much and once, for a split second, the lever didn't come back!

    MC changed, fluid changed, bleeding done. What else do I check?

    It feels better when I tie a velcro to brake lever and leave it overnight. But ofcourse, thats only a temp solution.

    Leave a comment:

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