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**Ishwor** · 12-02-2014, 09:07 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Completely agree! And i feel the steps taken are justifiable.
Those who say your dad's vehicles are less polluting than the discovers and activas and all kinds of stuff, please do widen your horizon. Remember this. Not all old vehicles cause pollution but MOST of the old vehicles do. Now how do you solve this issue? You just can't go searching for such vehicles rite? Of course you can check their emission certificates and what not. But as someone said, what if that certificate was not valid? What if the person was bribed and the certificate issued without the engine being turned on? This is India and everybody knows such things happen a lot. The only possible way for them to combat this was to ban all >15yrs vehicles.
But also i have to say, this was not the only way to go about it. Action has to be taken against the govt-mass transport too. That's what has happened here in Bangalore. 85-90% of the city buses termed "parisara vahini" are environment friendly. A similar step in Delhi or elsewhere would have been more welcomed.
But something's better than nothing. Forget your selfishness for the sake of the greater good! The decision makers are more experienced than us and would have thought it out before taking such a major step.

So what about new vehicles with their emission control sytem twiked by owners and many other whose engine condition is not good?

Is this one time implementation or it will be practised every year.I mean after two years later will the vehicles which are 13 years by now get banned?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s3

**Ishwor** · 12-02-2014, 09:13 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Originally posted by Anuj_Gupta View Post

[MENTION=52305]Ishwor[/MENTION] yes buddy ,Delhi is the worst polluted city in this world .
For all of those who're saying the ruling is irrational or not needed ,you don't know the intensity of situation because no one has shown it to you (I don't know why pictorial media is silent about it ) .the situation is so tense that govt has decided to show pollution levels by colour coding ,means red for worst and green for good etc etc .
NGT has sealed many air polluting factories .
Even Punjab farmers are cautioned not to burn leftovers of crop because even that smoke cloaks Delhi atmosphere heavily .
For any more queries, feel free to tag me .

All right.I agree with you.
Pollution levels in my city (kathmandu) is very high too.
I can see piles of plastic bags being burned every were.
Nobody cares.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s3

**Ishwor** · 12-02-2014, 09:33 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

We have yamaha ybx.It is 4 stroke engine and modern yamaha gladiators are using the same engine but tuned .

I am preety much sure our ybx is much less polluting than many of the new bikes on the road running with after market exhaust and catcon removed.
No body cares about AIR INDUCTION SYSTEM
Which plays vital role on emission control.Many bikes are running in street with damaged AIR INDUCTION SYSTEM.

I am running my 5 years old fz with AIR INDUCTION SYSTEM bypassed and i am preety much sure our 14 year ybx pollutes less than my 5 year old fz.

I have been visiting svc multiple times and every time they say they do not keep it on stock because nobody changes AIR INDUCTION SYSTEM and insted advised me to bypass ths AIS.

The ybx is 14 years old by now.

So banning old vehicles only wont solve the problem.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s3

**Anuj_Gupta** · 12-02-2014, 09:41 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Originally posted by dustom_99 View Post

I thing you have been watching too many movies , where they keep reciting that " law is above all" . well it is , but only till is it available in a book.
Whatever gave you the idea that judiciary is above Govt ( please mention the article that says so) . ours being a constitutional republic and democracy , will of people is above everything.
Govt in majority is nothing but will of people.
A written down law is above govt's will only till is available in rule book.
Remember that laws are made for people , and people are made for the law.
A govt in majority( will of people) can change the constitution itself , as and when desired.
They can even abolish enforcement of constitution if they so desire and abolish rights & duties. ( as done in enforcing emergency)
Judiciary can decide cases / give decision only as per written down law , amending , changing the law itself is not in their hand. If it was , judges of supreme court would make it a law that they cannot be impeached and their salaries would double every 24 hrs.
Will of people is supreme!

By the way who is Lt. commissioner of delhi ?
I never knew Police follow Lt in their ranks.

Court can call the commissioner of police and ask why certain orders as per its judgement were not enforces , where in police can always provide evidence that govt did not issue any such order and no budget / manpower or whatever was provided.
What is court going to do next? Jail the govt?

And this judgement is not easy to implement .
Right to property!
While purchasing and registering a vehicle , paying all the taxes as per govt / rulebook etc , govt is entering into a contract with the buyer that it will let them use public roads ( remember they are made with public money , not coming from courts fund or judges salary) subjected to certain conditions such as PUC, insurance , fitness certificate and few others.
Now govt can make a new rule for times ahead , it can't undo the past.
Govt / courts can certainly do it for state owned and public transport etc. Since they are the owners.

I am a mechanical engineer but I know enough of my rights that aint buying that crap of a judgement.

Would like to answer in bits .
1. No.,I don't watch movies ,I have to learn and explore Indian polity so that I can enter the bureaucracy.
2. Our country is a federal government. And a federal govt has independent judiciary. (Articles 124-147 for sc and 214 to 232 for hc) and NGT was formed in 2010 ,so it's a non constitutional body created by executive order .
Rest I don't know as I dint need to know .
3. A constitution maybe amended ,scrapped off and whatelse, BUT ITS BASIC STRUCTURE CANNOT BE CHANGED BY EVEN GANDHI HIMSELF. Ex - supremacy of constitution, rule of law ,powers of sc AND separation of powers between legislative ,executive and judiciary is a basic doctrine of constitution (A368) ( WAMAN RAO case of sc) .so ,don't believe that constitution is perishable fully. :thumbup:
4 sir ,emergency ,(a352 ,359,358) was done under emergency provisions mentioned in the constitution fundamental rights under article 19.20 cannot be suppressed anyhow. Also 1980 emergency was a cruelty step of indra to save pm seat and shadow court ruling .it's a long concept ,cannot explain here .
4. Sir ,as you know we have a suspended assembly right now (means no govt) ,so someone is needed to run govt machinery right. .? Those are agents of central govt and known as governers in state and lt commissioner/Commissioner in UT's. And it isn't under police, it's bureaucracy.
Najeeb jung is lt c . Of Delhi .
5 .most people have wrong impression of courts as only the institution to give jail /phansi, there are more than 12 types of court. You know there exists a court which decides water disputes between states .and this national green tribunal is a environmentAL court in itself .
6 . Right to property was abolished in 1961 ,hence it is not a fundamental right but a legal right .
7.yes ,govt enters a pact ,but it's written that vehicles will be subject to usage as per rto guidelines. Now they changed it ,so you can't do anything .
8. Will of people is not supreme, we're a socialist democratic country. I think you watched too many movies like nayak or followed some kejriwal.
8. Court cannot jail govt, but under circumstances ,it can dissolve it or even remove president ,pm from their post ,such is the power of sc. But sadly, all sc judges are appointed by collaboration of pm, opposition party and their people
9.I'm also a mech engg, rejected 2 job offers right after graduation (this year) ,now pursuing a path to bring some change in bureaucracy and hopefully put a red beacon on my bike

Nymore queries, shoot free
Take care.

**Anuj_Gupta** · 12-02-2014, 09:47 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Originally posted by Ishwor View Post

All right.I agree with you.
Pollution levels in my city (kathmandu) is very high too.
I can see piles of plastic bags being burned every were.
Nobody cares.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s3

We have enough for everyone's need ,but not for someone's greed .~Gandhi.
That is why we need to follow concept of sustainable development, manage ourselves without compromising needs of future generations.
I pray your country soon decides on constitution (yes Nepal doesn't have a constitution, they're forming one right now ,managing equanimity between all Maoist leaders Nd ruling party) .my best wishes to you .

**dustom_99** · 12-02-2014, 10:23 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Originally posted by Anuj_Gupta View Post

Would like to answer in bits .
1. No.,I don't watch movies ,I have to learn and explore Indian polity so that I can enter the bureaucracy.
2. Our country is a federal government. And a federal govt has independent judiciary. (Articles 124-147 for sc and 214 to 232 for hc) and NGT was formed in 2010 ,so it's a non constitutional body created by executive order .
Rest I don't know as I dint need to know .
3. A constitution maybe amended ,scrapped off and whatelse, BUT ITS BASIC STRUCTURE CANNOT BE CHANGED BY EVEN GANDHI HIMSELF. Ex - supremacy of constitution, rule of law ,powers of sc AND separation of powers between legislative ,executive and judiciary is a basic doctrine of constitution (A368) ( WAMAN RAO case of sc) .so ,don't believe that constitution is perishable fully. :thumbup:
4 sir ,emergency ,(a352 ,359,358) was done under emergency provisions mentioned in the constitution fundamental rights under article 19.20 cannot be suppressed anyhow. Also 1980 emergency was a cruelty step of indra to save pm seat and shadow court ruling .it's a long concept ,cannot explain here .
4. Sir ,as you know we have a suspended assembly right now (means no govt) ,so someone is needed to run govt machinery right. .? Those are agents of central govt and known as governers in state and lt commissioner/Commissioner in UT's. And it isn't under police, it's bureaucracy.
Najeeb jung is lt c . Of Delhi .
5 .most people have wrong impression of courts as only the institution to give jail /phansi, there are more than 12 types of court. You know there exists a court which decides water disputes between states .and this national green tribunal is a environmentAL court in itself .
6 . Right to property was abolished in 1961 ,hence it is not a fundamental right but a legal right .
7.yes ,govt enters a pact ,but it's written that vehicles will be subject to usage as per rto guidelines. Now they changed it ,so you can't do anything .
8. Will of people is not supreme, we're a socialist democratic country. I think you watched too many movies like nayak or followed some kejriwal.
8. Court cannot jail govt, but under circumstances ,it can dissolve it or even remove president ,pm from their post ,such is the power of sc. But sadly, all sc judges are appointed by collaboration of pm, opposition party and their people
9.I'm also a mech engg, rejected 2 job offers right after graduation (this year) ,now pursuing a path to bring some change in bureaucracy and hopefully put a red beacon on my bike

Nymore queries, shoot free
Take care.

1.you should! Takes little stress off your back of rejecting job offers in hope of a lal batti.
2. When did i say otherwise? I just said Govt has power to change judiciary as well as law!
3. Amendment is more than enough , who needs to change basic structure of constitution to keep vehicles on road?
4. As long as you agree govt can change laws and rules , i am more than happy.
4 ( again)??
I thgt najeeb jung ji was Lt.governor?
5.thanks for update on types of courts , but at the end all of them have to follow the book which can be amended by govt.
6. When did i say it was a fundamental right? Its legality is more than enough .
7 . any change to rules comes in force in time to come , not in hind site. If tomorrow govt imposes a tax on breathing , will those who have lived and died in 1990 be asked to deposit their breathing tax? Asking their next of kin to deposit the same??
8. Who ever living in a free democratic country and saying that will of people is not supreme has no understanding of law itself. That is what i believe! Just my opinion.
Whatever happned to preamble. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pream...ution_of_India
Please see the meaning section if you need any clarity on who is the boss of the country.

8. A court cannot remove a govt in majority! It can convict or remove individuals but it cant remove a govt who can prove majority in house.

I have no more questions for you.
How come you messed up your counting? Using point 4. Twice and same with 8?
Regards
PS: please mention names like Mahatama Gandhi , Indra ji , Lt.gov Jung ji with a little decency & Honour.
You can be of any camp , but I guess they have done enough for India to earn some respect.
They are not your class mates!

**Anuj_Gupta** · 12-02-2014, 10:56 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Originally posted by dustom_99 View Post

1.you should!
2. When did i say otherwise? I just said Govt has power to change judiciary as well as law!
3. Amendment is more than enough , who needs to change basic structure of constitution to keep vehicles on road?
4. As long as you agree govt can change laws and rules , i am more than happy.
4 ( again)??
I thgt najeeb jung ji was Lt.governor?
5.thanks for update on types of courts , but at the end all of them have to follow the book which can be amended by govt.
6. When did i say it was a fundamental right? Its legality is more than enough .
7 . any change to rules comes in force in time to come , not in hind site. If tomorrow govt imposes a tax on breathing , will those who have lived and died in 1990 be asked to deposit their breathing tax? Asking their next of kin to deposit the same??
8. Who ever living in a free democratic country and saying that will of people is not supreme has no understanding of law itself. That is what i believe! Just my opinion.
Whatever happned to preamble. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pream...ution_of_India
Please see the meaning section if you need any clarity on who is the boss of the country.

8. A court cannot remove a govt in majority! It can convict or remove individuals but it cant remove a govt who can prove majority in house.

I have no more questions for you.
How come you messed up your counting? Using point 4. Twice and same with 8?
Regards

Everything has a time ,time for movies will also come ,meanwhile it's not hope but determination to get into servives, so it is a matter of time .success is not final ,failure is not fatal .
I was talking w.r.t. judiciary and laws as you said govt can burn the constitution and re write it .so I gave you basic structure clause .
Sorry ,was typing while eating ,therefore used lt. Comm. Instaed of governor and that messed up counting ,anyways I don't think that changed the spirit of my post .
My field of talking was more than just vehicles.

I said dissolve, dissolving and removing govt is altogether diff game .
No ,rules punish /alter after they come in effect .example ,those who raped after the nirbaya ruling and amendment to IPC ,can be hanged, not those who did before .even if someone committed this heinous crime at 12 th of Jan (tentative ) ,while law came into force 13 th of jan, he won't be hanged .
Pls don't rely on wiki holly ,there is more than terms or simple layman explanation. There is no BOSS OF this country .can you define who's BOSS of our country ..? I would like to know about him.
I said ours is a socialist democratic with representative system .pls Google it ,if some section of society denies to adhere to law ,will that be accepted because of supreme will ..? Its good only in books ,debates and in some politicians language.
If in hypothetical situation, court convicts pm of malpractice on basis of removal of 5 conditions and removes him ,than the council of ministers also gets removed .(a78 ,collective responsibility) .that frankly means to dissolvement of govt. No doubt party in power can again ask for majority and form govt with different pm, but once govt was dissolved, right ..?
Thanks

Moreover you can buy this book http://www.flipkart.com/indian-polit...mey7dgbaff5war if you have any doubts as its goof for beginners, but don't blindly follow internet.

**dustom_99** · 12-02-2014, 11:12 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Originally posted by Anuj_Gupta View Post

Everything has a time ,time for movies will also come ,meanwhile it's not hope but determination to get into servives, so it is a matter of time .success is not final ,failure is not fatal .
I was talking w.r.t. judiciary and laws as you said govt can burn the constitution and re write it .so I gave you basic structure clause .
Sorry ,was typing while eating ,therefore used lt. Comm. Instaed of governor and that messed up counting ,anyways I don't think that changed the spirit of my post .
My field of talking was more than just vehicles.

I said dissolve, dissolving and removing govt is altogether diff game .
No ,rules punish /alter after they come in effect .example ,those who raped after the nirbaya ruling and amendment to IPC ,can be hanged, not those who did before .even if someone committed this heinous crime at 12 th of Jan (tentative ) ,while law came into force 13 th of jan, he won't be hanged .
Pls don't rely on wiki holly ,there is more than terms or simple layman explanation. There is no BOSS OF this country .can you define who's BOSS of our country ..? I would like to know about him.
I said ours is a socialist democratic with representative system .pls Google it ,if some section of society denies to adhere to law ,will that be accepted because of supreme will ..? Its good only in books ,debates and in some politicians language.
If in hypothetical situation, court convicts pm of malpractice on basis of removal of 5 conditions and removes him ,than the council of ministers also gets removed .(a78 ,collective responsibility) .that frankly means to dissolvement of govt. No doubt party in power can again ask for majority and form govt with different pm, but once govt was dissolved, right ..?
Thanks

Moreover you can buy this book http://www.flipkart.com/indian-polit...mey7dgbaff5war if you have any doubts as its goof for beginners, but don't blindly follow internet.

Can you state the preamble to constitution?
Please do so , here itself.
You would not be asking who the boss is?
Its the people! As in majority.
If majority of people of India say its day when moon is up , it better be!

If some section of society denies to adhere to law , and that section of society is majority , then that rule better be changed. And that section being in majority ( govt in other words) has power to do so aswell.
Did you think that a section of society ( being majority) will be forced to change itself ? And who will force them to change? Remaining people( minority) . Is it not enforcing will of minority over majority of people? Is that called democracy & i dependence?

But anyway i am done teaching, you can keep your concepts and I will keep mine.
Hey , but do take trouble of posting the Preamble of Indian constitution here . So that other readers could gain from your knowledge and understanding of Law.
I know you aint gonna do it already.

**Anuj_Gupta** · 12-02-2014, 11:58 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Sir I'm exhausted to type to make you understand.
Did you know that preamble is not any rule of constitution, rather than a mere beginning,intro epitome of same .,Yes it's the soul of constitution, because we gained independence for it ,sacrificed a lot for it and got benefited from it .but that doesn't Mean all things will happen word by word .
I'm done correcting ,its upto you what you believe .you may not need certain and correct info ,but I do .and its credibility is crucial for my future .

**pulsater** · 12-03-2014, 01:56 AM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Sad to see so many educated xBhpian feeling more passionate about one or two beloved vintage/well maintained vehicles over their own city where they are living and breathing.

Truth is, because of uncontrolled pollution level in NCR, we and our family are having a serious health hazard AT THIS VERY moment as we breath. It's easy to ignore it now because you ain't coughing every minute or going out gocery shopping with a hideous mask on, yet. But that day will soon come when you would actually see haze even at 7 in the morning in Delhi instead of bright warm sunlight (People who have seen both, skies of Delhi and that of any other city abroad, would easily know how dark it is up here). Every step taken (tough or small) to control such an alarming situation should be welcome by all citizens right away. Yes, some of you must be having 18/20 years old vehicle in immaculate condition and might have an emotional attachment to it too but are you that selfish enough, not to acknowledge the current wider threatening situation in our city? Clean or poisonous, you are breathing the same air too.

Pollution in Delhi has not immigrated but is created, by ALL of us, knowingly or unknowingly. So please stop acting as if you have done a favour by keeping your old activa in check. Your one Activa doesnt help much in controlling the situation, compared to taking 29 LAKHS old vehicles out of road. And yes, you wont get clean air immediately in Delhi post the implementation of this law but the important thing that will come out of this is that we as an urban metropolitan city would be taking a little step forward for better, rather than just sitting, passing blame game and waiting for worst to happen when it's too late (Google Beijing air pollution for nightmare images).

Talking about political and commercial sales motivation behind this law, I don't think that sales chart will hit sky rocket (some lakhs of vehicles are added on Delhi city roads everyday anyways, with or without scrapping old vehicles) but its really novice to say that gov is behind this strategy. Please don't be so short sighted. Going by our habits, the time is not far away when we will blame gov, even for not having a good poop in the morning.

**krishna77** · 12-03-2014, 07:53 AM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

I think nobody here is not against curbing of pollution. It's the way of implementation that needed a better treatment.
Peace now!

**mehuel** · 12-04-2014, 08:31 AM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

this is absolutely ridiculous.
what govt should concentrate on is making sure that when the vehicles go for re- registration
after 15 years they should comply with all the norms like engine in good health, along with tyre, chassis and other electrical components.
i mean an engine with good internals, say if it is running on new cylinder, valve etc, and rightly tuned up, there is no reason for why it should be poluting.
yes it will be difficult to check such vehicles for such parameters but its not impossible.

this is being followed in UK, where every vehicle goes through a stringent MOT test,

MOT test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now this is a way to do things.

it may sound like i am loosing temper and bickering, but what is being done here is,
looks more like an arrangament with the vehicle manufacturer to add to more sales volume.
and as for court ruling, the government should intervene

yes the polution should be curbed, yes, there are number of vehicles plying on roads which are not in good health, but there are better ways to do things, which keeps the general population happy and are not directed towards manufacturer making more profits.

PS: well, this is how the argument goes in my mind.
and i ask myself can sringent test measures be implemented.
And i am dismayed by the answer i hear.
No, they cant be implemented.
sorry to say, but we are corrupt.
we will not mind giving the tester 100 - 500 bucks or even more to pass our vehicle.
and they wont mind taking it.
So considering this, i calm myself down and accept to bear this still illogical sounding step.

**neelesh4** · 12-04-2014, 02:33 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Hi!

I just signed the petition "national green tribunal, National Green
Tribunal (NGT): To allow re-registration of Vehicles (15 year old) which are
fit to be driven on roads of Delhi." on Change.org.

It's important. Will you sign it too? Here's the link:

http://www.change.org/p/national-green-tribunal-national-green-tribunal-ngt-to-allow-re-registration-of-vehicles-15-year-old-which-are-fit-to-be-driven-on-roads-of-delhi?recruiter=158721050&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

Thanks!

Neelesh

**rx100.7050** · 12-04-2014, 02:50 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Did that now... thanks for sharing

देखने के लिए लॉग इन या साइन अप करें

https://www.facebook.com/dips.barua?fref=nf

Facebook पर पोस्ट, फ़ोटो और बहुत कुछ देखें.

**neelesh4** · 12-04-2014, 03:05 PM

Re: More than 15 year old vehicles will be banned from Delhi Roads: xBhp News

Originally posted by rx100.7050 View Post

Did that now... thanks for sharing

https://www.facebook.com/dips.barua?fref=nf

share it as much as we can.

http://www.change.org/p/national-green-tribunal-national-green-tribunal-ngt-to-allow-re-registration-of-vehicles-15-year-old-which-are-fit-to-be-driven-on-roads-of-delhi?recruiter=158721050&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

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