Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

Buddy, tax is on some underlying cost of the bike. The total price is cost + tax.

Let MC be manufacturer cost of the bike.

So currently market price MP = MC x (1.75).

Now new market price = NMP = MC x 1.50, so the difference will be NMP/MP - 1 = around -15%.

Hence the CBUs should cost around 15% less. Hope this math is clear.

Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

Made an excel for personal use. Check it out..
Taken rough numbers of vehicle costs, don't blame me.
Assuming that all benefits are passed on to customers, these would be the new costs. (if they pass on)

Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

10K motorcycle
75 % tax (7500)
=17,500

10K motorcycle
50% tax (5000)
15,000

Difference = 2500

(2500/15000) = 16.66 %

(2500/17500) = 14.28 %

Definitely not 25%

Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

Thanks guys! Moral of the story is that my dream bikes are still a dream.

Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

Good work. Just one correction for the sake of being accurate, N650 is not a CBU so its price will not change. In fact it may rise marginally because of 5% increase in CKD parts.

Harley 750 get ~50K price drop

Street 750 gets Rs. 47,001 price cut & the Street Rod gets a price cut of Rs. 48,001

Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

Trump might have got done a useful decision for us, but his logic is not at all valid.
The relations between a country do not have to be as simple as, "We don't tax you, then why you tax us?"

Our import policy is almost same for every WTO country, not only for USA. The USA import policy is almost the same for every WTO country, not only for India. (not counting economic integrations & specific time bound MOU's).

Now, if we start following such Country1 vs Country2 policies, the whole world would end up having same global trade policies.
But are we all truly equal? Is USA and India truly equal?


USA is a country which sends their telecalling work to us. USA is what WTO and UN revolves around.
USA imports huge amount of our digital data from spy-like operating systems like Android, iOS, Windows Mobile, Windows 10, etc without any accountability of their need and owner's consent. Just for one "I acknowledge" click, they continue holding many many GB's of our data, and conveniently allow NSA to access this data, with almost no digital privacy left.

And now, USA has started passing orders on our policy..
And our so called "strong" PM has made another strong move, making CKD's more expensive when they should've got cheaper for providing assembly related employment to locals.. This is my only problem, why should CKD's get more expensive?


I'm not against CBU's getting cheaper, I'm only against the US President making an economic joke and our policies being changed in its response...

Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

Loved reading your post. Read it twice. Some good understanding of our economics. Hardly get to see people know what they talk now a days.
Our Import Policy is not same across all nations. Maldieves, Srilanka have some sort of 0% tax free arrangement with us. We sought 0 Tax on exports to EU and some other countries, but in return we wanted to tax 28% on goods from those nations. (Maybe wrt some terms and conditions here. ).

Fully agree on Spying part. They should Die in the first place. All these companies should Die. Microsoft is the new Spy King. Forget IOS and Android.

US Ordered us and our Politicians changed it accordingly. Bringing down from 75 to 50%. Then the comment came from Mr trump himself. We have to understand one thing first. Taxing 75% on a product first and then taxing another 15% on road tax. Is there any meaning in it? Do our roads deserve a Road tax?

For a 100/- Item, we charge an import duty of 75% and then the new price is 175. On this we again ask another 15% as road tax which brings the new price to 201.25. Add another 10/- for insurance. Now the total cost is 211 for a 100/- item. There has to be some sense in taxing. Just because they can, they keep increasing the taxes. Now other nations are asking the same. You want to export, but you don't allow imports by taxing heavily.
Any nation will agree, if the difference is 10 or 20%. But we want tax free access, but in return we want to tax 100% or above (directly and indirectly). Who would agree man?

US president need not joke about our economy. We are a Joke. Sorry, but this is the truth.
Crude oil went to 25 USD = 2250 (Conversion rate of 70 say. Actually its 64). 1 Barrel has 125L of Petrol and 30L of diesel. Which gives a petrol price of ~15 and diesel price of around 15. Have you ever seen this price?
Do you know on what basis our petrol and diesel prices are charged? Isn't this a joke?
Do you know we never get 1L of fuel for 1L cost. we always get 950-960ML only. Never. Isn't this a joke?
Do you know the logic behind price calculation of Gold. International 24 Carat gold is cheaper than our domestic 22 Carat gold. why?
When gold price moves up, Local gold price moves instantaneously. But when the price goes down, for weeks they don't change prices. Why? Is there any logic in these transactions?

Let us not compare ourselves with any nation. We are the source of our problems. No point in comparing ourselves with others.
75 years of independence. Did you see any one taking any action on corrupted officers? No.
Even those who are corrupted, we still pay them pensions throughout their lifetime and we give them free medical care. When 98% of Indians Don't have access to it. Govt taxes all 100% Indians and pays few of its employees. Still do these employees work when they get access to privileges which 99.5% of Indians don't have access to? We are one of the most corrupted countries in the world.

Accountability in government is missing. No one has any responsibility, except few services oriented offices. That's the root cause. We have DRDL, DRDO and so many bullshit army research centers. but we are still looking for automatic rifles, sniper rifles, tanks, war ships, bullet proof jackets, air planes and what not. What these offices have been doing from the past 75 years? If they are doing nothing, why are they being paid in the first place. If you dont fire them, they have no reason to work. Why work when you are paid without working. The same is the case with all offices.

Let us not finger ourselves into this economic topic and stick our bikes, so we can have some peace.

Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

Thanks for the personal rant. I still stand by every word I said. Including the "almost" word I added before same in my post. I was not talking about special arrangements or MOUs, like the "Mangoes for Harleys" we already have since 2007, on this very issue, CBU. I wasn't talking about various levels of economic integration either, like in European countries or so.

I was talking about "the Logic" that got made a decision here in India.
So, a lion should not eat me, because I don't eat lions, is it?
Trump has been known to talk rubbish, but what logic is this? And why do we cut our taxes by half, by foreign influence?
Why not our own voice creates changes?

Let me repeat the news, as it is, Trump threatened that we should start taxing those bikes which are imported into the US, from India, as a revenge. He did that.

Your logic about Road tax is not clear, whether you want reduction in tax or you want to get eliminated "two kinds of similar taxes".
Overall Reduction will happen over time, but road tax could've been removed after GST, but it won't be. Extra money never hurts, right?

And now, you'll also say that bitcoin prices also differ nationally and internationally, is it? Gold prices differ not only country wise, but city wise also. And why they don't go down when they go down internationally is because they're speculative as well as luxury commodity and based on demand and supply. Here, sellers might have access to international market, but not majority of buyers. Its mostly a seller dominated market, where buyer won't even buy Gold if its as cheap as iron...
And why should Gold price be same as other countries? Do you have free market of Gold for trade purposes? No, right?

And Gold is going down even in India, due to the recent government's crackdown ?


I'm discussing economics, only in reference of motorcycles. Are we going in the right direction if we remove duties on imports, but increase them on CKD's, which in fact give employment to our people?


Going a bit OT:
Secondly, is it still not clear who ordered this "spying"? Edward Snowden pretty much exposed everything.
Don't say "companies" anymore. Say more like "NSA front ends". Tell me one thing, after Snowden exposed NSA, why do we constantly have news that Apple doesn't compromise user security and is fighting against FBI randomly asking for customer's information.
And USA itself has recently approved a bill which means FBI won't require warrants for online intrusion and spying.
So, Apple is fooling us, right?

I asked for accountability only for the data that's being spied out of our devices. Not for government's every secret department.

Wait, what our country's miltiary & other departments did in 75 years? So, I got to answer that too? Alright here we go.
Well, we started off as a poor nation, looted by the English for about 300 years, with just some tanks and railway lines and hardly any transport and buildings. From that position, we made a constitution, we made laws, we protected our domestic industries with import restrictions, we protected cottage industries by introducing licensing system, we created the world's third largest army, we have an extensive collection of missiles and defence equipments, we created the Asia's largest organisation employmentwise- Railways. I hope you're not getting motivated by social media posts. Our country has made a lot of progress in the 75 years. You and I were born into this progress era, so maybe we don't see the difference.


Even if our country is a joke, as you said, Trump is not the judge of this. You & I may be, because we're citizens but not Trump.

I understand that, maybe my mentioning of "strong PM" had something to do with your outburst and personal rant, is it?
Are you a fan of PM Modi? If so, accept my humble apologies on the same.

And may the discussion be closed from my side.

Re: CBUs to cost less, as import duties reduced

Dude, he talked sensibly. But the media portrayed this way. I don't blame you. Yes, he did talk some gibberish, but talked a lot of sensible stuff too. The way media coverage worked should be questioned.


If i am paying for a service, i should get the service. If i am paying for road tax, i should get some decent roads. not potholes. And why do we have tolls on roads again. why was the Road tax collected in the first place?


Gold prices are determined in Dollars and our Rupee to Dollar conversion rate. Nothing else. Same is the case with other commodities. When we sell steel, we price it in dollars too. This is pure cheating by people in control. No one takes action on them.

Create proper environment for people to work. That should create jobs. If you don't make proper laws and if you don't follow law, people wont follow it. They create unions and try to rip companies. Companies are afraid of starting new units. That's the problem we are facing. Create a stable law. Implement the law properly.

What happened in MS? Company misused the law, and people used unions and banged the factories. MS moved to Gujrat and hardly employs 7K people. where as in UP or MP, it employs over 200K. Gujrat plant was Fully automated with Too many Robots so only 7K people. Where is 150-200K and where is 7K. By not creating a trustable environment, this will be the outcome throughout industries. in such an environment why would any new company wants to start here?


Spying is illegal. I don't support spying or companies who spy on people. Including our own government using Aadhar. Any company or App doing spying, should be hanged. Spying has some dangerous consequences to society.

I am not against investing in Army. I am asking what have they developed in house. I am not questioning the strength of army. All the defense equipment were purchased from other nations. including some from Israel, whose size is hardly the size of one of our city.
Our law is a copy of other countries laws. Nothing was created. Its a copy paste job. prior windows though.
Railways is a joke.
I am born in a society, where the RTC bus doesn't stop in bus stop. The roads are not laid, for which we multiple times. the roads are not cleaned, not even once a week, when we pay taxes and swach bharat tax as a tip over regular taxes. The police man wants to stop only bikes and small cars and fines them excluding all others.
i don't get any consumer protection for what i pay for. I don't get any medical benefit other than going to government hospital. But the poor get 2/- rice and free medical healthcare in private hospitals.

If you trade with someone and he asks too steep price for something. You will complain in front of him and walk away.
in the business case, trump shouted and threatened same for our products too.
Even we did this to trump and US when some visa restrictions were imposed. check our news papers.

Re: Harley 750 get ~50K price drop


What the F#%* ?

a) I submitted the news as a separate news, else I'd have posted in this thread

b) The article literally says

So whats the point of merging it in this thread?

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----


Actually, you might have got the sequence of events slightly wrong.



The fact is Modi went and told him that he had reduced CKD prices, from 75 to 50%.

And trump, being the collosal twat that he is, with the IQ and mentality of a school bully, talked to the media about it.

India hasn't changed any policy on his diktat.

Re: Harley 750 get ~50K price drop

Ok, I just checked and an apology is due.
Really sorry for that.
Yes, first the taxes went 75% to 50%, and then Trump commented on it. It seems like, this phone call brought this to the attention of Prez. Trump.

PS: I'm still not sure we're ready for free trade as proposed by Trump, not fearing other countries that much except China. They'll be first to get in, and with their low cost manufacturing, they're sure to dig a hole in our industry, however shallow it may be. At best, maybe a MOU with USA exclusively?

However, a big question is, how many bikes does India export to USA actually?

Do have a look at this article guys. Not sure how credible it is:- https://www.cartoq.com/donald-trump-...ly-we-explain/

Re: Harley 750 get ~50K price drop

All manufacturers export to USA. So, all companies have a US branch office. Kawa, Suzuki, honda, Ducati, HD, Triumph, etc etc.
If you open free trade with USA, All these companies start to export from US office. Instead of other regional offices. So all of them get benefit. Not as simple as it is said. So, lets see how things pan out down the line.

Also, we should consider other trade activities too. Not only motorcycles. The purpose of trade is. If i can make biscuits effectively, i will make more and export them to you. Instead of making heavy investments into milk. if you make more milk effectively, i will buy milk from you. This way, both of us can grow without compromising.
We export more IT and meat. but import electronics. trade has to be reasonable from both parties, i think. if not we might face more questions from EU and others.

Re: Harley 750 get ~50K price drop

Not necessarily. There has been, and can be a "Country of Origin" condition too.
Noteworthy is that, the 2007 "Mangoes for Harleys" CBU arrangement also required that imported vehicles (800cc+) should be imported directly from the country they were produced/ assembled in, that is technically known as, the "Country of Origin".

Yes, let's see what happens... I'm myself curious.

Re: Harley 750 get ~50K price drop

If you keep putting these kind of terms and conditions.
Others will start doing the same to us. This has just begun and German ambassador criticized our duties too.
Remember, we export more than we import from some countries and we import more than we export to some countries (China). Trade will never be equal. It will be either less or more. But overall, we try to balance it out.
Wanna see what happens when others put terms and conditions on our exports? or open trade with equal terms and conditions to all, (to where we export). I dont see any point in fighting over these kind of things, when the root problems in our society are goverment related. Fix them. They will try to make here rather than importing. Now, they are afraid.