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**The Monk** · 11-09-2015, 11:05 AM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Query Approved

**soumen.sam** · 11-09-2015, 05:29 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

I'm not a owner of either bikes but I've booked the z800 and going to get it soon. I too a full faired sports bike lover but in my budget and choice I got Z800 at the top. I too didnot prefer naked bike as a super sports but had no other choice.

My choice reason was:

Z800:
# I took the test drive around an hour + drove my friends bike few times.
# Complete value for money. The most affordable 4 cylender higher cc bike.
# Its seat height is very high but I'm 5f 8" and standing on the bike both of my feet touched over 50% area on the ground. So no issues.
# Having such weight its difficult to handle in sharp U Turn at slow speed, but with time it will be ok.
# Seating is not very comfortable like touring bikes but its got what a naked super sports should be.
# Seating position is perfect for touring but wind blast will be an issue at higher speed, but with aftermarket windscreen this issue will reduce.
# The last reason you will find when you fire the engine. Its sound.

CBR 650F:
Honda engine and its smoothness is best. And honda cars and bikes will be always in my top list. I will always advice for Honda for its long term reliability and resale value. I was waiting for its lunch but after checking the pictures didnt went to check the bike in person and removed it from my list.

Reasons:
# Price quoted is very high in my point of view for a 650CC bike.
# No inverted forks which is a very important thing in terms of look and feel.
# Single seat.
# Single headlight (however not a big issue)
# Overall design is just ok ok.
# Honda doesnt makes aggressive track bikes, even CBR1000RR is not a great track bike and out from top 5 list. So if you're looking for comfort then go for it.
# As it is comfortable it should be slightly boring.
# According to youtube review its a great bike. But for me its a similar to Kawasaki 650.

So if you're thinking for touring (with pillion), comfort, long runs, easy handling and ride then go for it.

**Odeen12** · 11-10-2015, 09:11 AM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Hey dude. You have listed the pros and cons for each of the motorcycles pretty elaborately. I guess now it's a matter of comfort and figuring out what you want from a motorcycle.

In my personal opinion the CBR is priced on the higher side. I remember the old CBR F series and they were super fun to ride. How should I put it, it did feel like a CBR. This new lot though nice doesn't instil that feel. But having said that Hondas are super reliable and have the smoothest and happiest engines you can lay your hands on. And the major problem for me with the Honda is that it looks boring. I mean they could have tried. Considering, correct me if I am wrong but the bike was designed by a younger Honda design and engineering team.

The Kawasaki on the other hand has been designed for street cred. It's more of an aggressive motorcycle.. Intent on engaging the rider further. It's decent amount of fun to ride and has a brilliant torque curve so as to aid you in city conditions as well. But bear in mind the front biased stance will take a toll on your body initially and you'd have to get used to it gradually.

Honestly go by what you feel. Both are good at what they were designed for. May be wait a little longer with the session.. Go have another test ride and see. May be try other bikes available and it can actually put things in perspective. Try the street triple just for the heck of it and compare it to both of the Japs.

Have fun.

**forcooler** · 11-10-2015, 06:46 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Originally posted by soumen.sam View Post

I'm not a owner of either bikes but I've booked the z800 and going to get it soon. I too a full faired sports bike lover but in my budget and choice I got Z800 at the top. I too didnot prefer naked bike as a super sports but had no other choice.

My choice reason was:

Z800:
# I took the test drive around an hour + drove my friends bike few times.
# Complete value for money. The most affordable 4 cylender higher cc bike.
# Its seat height is very high but I'm 5f 8" and standing on the bike both of my feet touched over 50% area on the ground. So no issues.
# Having such weight its difficult to handle in sharp U Turn at slow speed, but with time it will be ok.
# Seating is not very comfortable like touring bikes but its got what a naked super sports should be.
# Seating position is perfect for touring but wind blast will be an issue at higher speed, but with aftermarket windscreen this issue will reduce.
# The last reason you will find when you fire the engine. Its sound.

CBR 650F:
Honda engine and its smoothness is best. And honda cars and bikes will be always in my top list. I will always advice for Honda for its long term reliability and resale value. I was waiting for its lunch but after checking the pictures didnt went to check the bike in person and removed it from my list.

Reasons:
# Price quoted is very high in my point of view for a 650CC bike.
# No inverted forks which is a very important thing in terms of look and feel.
# Single seat.
# Single headlight (however not a big issue)
# Overall design is just ok ok.
# Honda doesnt makes aggressive track bikes, even CBR1000RR is not a great track bike and out from top 5 list. So if you're looking for comfort then go for it.
# As it is comfortable it should be slightly boring.
# According to youtube review its a great bike. But for me its a similar to Kawasaki 650.

So if you're thinking for touring (with pillion), comfort, long runs, easy handling and ride then go for it.

Thanks for your inputs man, good to hear thoughts of a faired bike guy. To be honest, it was what i ideally wanted, a Ninja 650 with an inline 4, it's just the price that has made be think more than twice.

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by Odeen12 View Post

Hey dude. You have listed the pros and cons for each of the motorcycles pretty elaborately. I guess now it's a matter of comfort and figuring out what you want from a motorcycle.

In my personal opinion the CBR is priced on the higher side. I remember the old CBR F series and they were super fun to ride. How should I put it, it did feel like a CBR. This new lot though nice doesn't instil that feel. But having said that Hondas are super reliable and have the smoothest and happiest engines you can lay your hands on. And the major problem for me with the Honda is that it looks boring. I mean they could have tried. Considering, correct me if I am wrong but the bike was designed by a younger Honda design and engineering team.

The Kawasaki on the other hand has been designed for street cred. It's more of an aggressive motorcycle.. Intent on engaging the rider further. It's decent amount of fun to ride and has a brilliant torque curve so as to aid you in city conditions as well. But bear in mind the front biased stance will take a toll on your body initially and you'd have to get used to it gradually.

Honestly go by what you feel. Both are good at what they were designed for. May be wait a little longer with the session.. Go have another test ride and see. May be try other bikes available and it can actually put things in perspective. Try the street triple just for the heck of it and compare it to both of the Japs.

Have fun.

Thanks for your inputs Odeen12

Honestly, I do think I have overthought the hell out of this. Its just that its a load of money(a significant emi for 4 years) and it's not something I'll sell anytime soon. Almost feels like a marriage decision :P

Anyway, while the only the other CBR I've ridden is the 250 ( which i found quite boring), I get what you mean when you say the 650 doesn't instill that feel. I'm sure you know about that "grin" any biker gets when he puts down the power on a bike. I somehow feel that while the cbr doesn't make you feel that right away, it may in a different way, maybe with time with it's accessibility of power etc. The z800 on the other gives you that grin the moment you wring the throttle, at least thats what I felt when i rode it. But again, will it last? not sure(for me).

You're right about the young designers part, they were 20 somethings given the freedom which I don't think they've used.

I've tried all the other bikes that I've mentioned in my earlier post, including the triple and ended up with these two. I rode the daytona as well, wish I had 13-14 lakhs to spare on a bike to ride on short sprints and tracks. :P

The front-biased bit is interesting, I would think the CBR would be more so as the clip-ons are lower, the z800 on the other hand felt comfortable with high handlebars. However, since the 220 was my first bike and it's what I learnt and grew on, the "clip-ons posture" comes naturally to me.

It's quite the opposite on the z800. During the test ride, while accelerating hard ,I somehow felt I was sitting completely wrong, I was essentially holding on to the handle-bars which were pulling me and in turn it felt like the bike just wanted to lift the front wheel all the time. I tried leaning forward slightly in the next run it seemed better. Is it something you have to do with powerful naked bikes while pushing hard ?

**bigron** · 11-10-2015, 08:46 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

You have this pretty sorted as far as the technical stuff is concerned.

If there is going to be a compromise then I suggest it is made on less relevant points. Basically you need to just list the reasons you are purchasing the bike for.

If highway touring is your thing than I suggest stick with the HONDA. Faired, wind protection, well placed mirrors, riding position more towards sports touring rather then track days, decent suspension set up and more than adequate braking. And best of all it does not look built to price. Its a commendable product which will keep you happy for long.

For everything else get the Kawasaki z800.

**Odeen12** · 11-11-2015, 08:30 AM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Originally posted by forcooler View Post

Thanks for your inputs man, good to hear thoughts of a faired bike guy. To be honest, it was what i ideally wanted, a Ninja 650 with an inline 4, it's just the price that has made be think more than twice.

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Thanks for your inputs Odeen12

Honestly, I do think I have overthought the hell out of this. Its just that its a load of money(a significant emi for 4 years) and it's not something I'll sell anytime soon. Almost feels like a marriage decision :P

Anyway, while the only the other CBR I've ridden is the 250 ( which i found quite boring), I get what you mean when you say the 650 doesn't instill that feel. I'm sure you know about that "grin" any biker gets when he puts down the power on a bike. I somehow feel that while the cbr doesn't make you feel that right away, it may in a different way, maybe with time with it's accessibility of power etc. The z800 on the other gives you that grin the moment you wring the throttle, at least thats what I felt when i rode it. But again, will it last? not sure(for me).

You're right about the young designers part, they were 20 somethings given the freedom which I don't think they've used.

I've tried all the other bikes that I've mentioned in my earlier post, including the triple and ended up with these two. I rode the daytona as well, wish I had 13-14 lakhs to spare on a bike to ride on short sprints and tracks. :P

The front-biased bit is interesting, I would think the CBR would be more so as the clip-ons are lower, the z800 on the other hand felt comfortable with high handlebars. However, since the 220 was my first bike and it's what I learnt and grew on, the "clip-ons posture" comes naturally to me.

It's quite the opposite on the z800. During the test ride, while accelerating hard ,I somehow felt I was sitting completely wrong, I was essentially holding on to the handle-bars which were pulling me and in turn it felt like the bike just wanted to lift the front wheel all the time. I tried leaning forward slightly in the next run it seemed better. Is it something you have to do with powerful naked bikes while pushing hard ?

Hey, So went on a ride this week with a few friends to lonavala. And there were a couple of Honda 650's with us. The riders looked really comfortable on their motorcycle. I guess the stance more than a committed one, is more of a sports tourer kind of a thing. So yes you would be able to tour on this baby quite a bit. But thats if you want a motorcycle for that purpose.

The best way and this what i follow now...is to grab the tank with your legs. Its like straddling a horse man. Take the weight of your hands and shoulder, transfer it to your core. Keep the grip light. Also what i have realised is unintentionally i used to grab the grips tight when riding hard. Had to condition myself not to do that. Keep it light and that ride by wire on the Honda or the Z should get you through without any drama.

Let us know when you do take the plunge.

All the best.

**forcooler** · 11-11-2015, 10:36 AM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Originally posted by Odeen12 View Post

Hey, So went on a ride this week with a few friends to lonavala. And there were a couple of Honda 650's with us. The riders looked really comfortable on their motorcycle. I guess the stance more than a committed one, is more of a sports tourer kind of a thing. So yes you would be able to tour on this baby quite a bit. But thats if you want a motorcycle for that purpose.

The best way and this what i follow now...is to grab the tank with your legs. Its like straddling a horse man. Take the weight of your hands and shoulder, transfer it to your core. Keep the grip light. Also what i have realised is unintentionally i used to grab the grips tight when riding hard. Had to condition myself not to do that. Keep it light and that ride by wire on the Honda or the Z should get you through without any drama.

Let us know when you do take the plunge.

All the best.

Hey, thats good to know, yes a sports tourer is whats it's marketed as. However, I was wondering, that while touring involves a lot of highways but the destination may be a place which doesn't have very good roads etc. Do you think cbr would fair ok on mildly-heavy offroad sections or would the z800? (or neither :P)

And thanks for sharing the grab the tank part, i think I was doing the same( grabbing the grip tight).

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by bigron View Post

You have this pretty sorted as far as the technical stuff is concerned.

If there is going to be a compromise then I suggest it is made on less relevant points. Basically you need to just list the reasons you are purchasing the bike for.

If highway touring is your thing than I suggest stick with the HONDA. Faired, wind protection, well placed mirrors, riding position more towards sports touring rather then track days, decent suspension set up and more than adequate braking. And best of all it does not look built to price. Its a commendable product which will keep you happy for long.

For everything else get the Kawasaki z800.

Lol.. for everything else makes me think of the mastercard commercial. You're right about the "list the reasons" bit, I think I'm going to get down to that. I only wonder if touring can be managed with an aftermarket windscreen on the z800.

**bigron** · 11-11-2015, 04:26 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Windscreen is just one of the many factors to gauge when deciding on a sports tourer. A few others would include handle bar location,saddle height, placement of foot pegs , sitting position, power delivery, rear seat comfort, ease of riding and so on.

**forcooler** · 11-11-2015, 07:20 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Originally posted by bigron View Post

Windscreen is just one of the many factors to gauge when deciding on a sports tourer. A few others would include handle bar location,saddle height, placement of foot pegs , sitting position, power delivery, rear seat comfort, ease of riding and so on.

Yep, I know, and based on my experience on the test rides and my touring experiences so far, I could gauge those points to an extent. However, I'm not sure of the windblast issue on a naked as i have done high speeds on one yet. Constant windblast over 8-10 hours on the road could be an issue, but if the difference between a windscreened-zed and a cbr650 is manageable, it may help sort this query out.

It may sound like knitpicking, but wouldn't hurt to know.

**Odeen12** · 11-11-2015, 08:00 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Originally posted by forcooler View Post

Yep, I know, and based on my experience on the test rides and my touring experiences so far, I could gauge those points to an extent. However, I'm not sure of the windblast issue on a naked as i have done high speeds on one yet. Constant windblast over 8-10 hours on the road could be an issue, but if the difference between a windscreened-zed and a cbr650 is manageable, it may help sort this query out.

It may sound like knitpicking, but wouldn't hurt to know.

You will have wind blast, no matter what you try. Even a windscreen is going to help you marginally. And hence that is going to bother you at high speeds. Having said that while touring i assume you'd be doing somewhere between the 90 and 100 mark, then it hardly matters. Anything upwards of 140 and there is where things get windy. If you wear a mesh jacket, you end up looking like a puffer fish. Leather hough not practical (for our sticky climate), is the only way to go for that ride confidence.

On your off roading query Bigron has some valid points there. Both in my opinion would suck on bad roads. For that Tiger is the only way to go. I love that motorcycle.

Cheers

**bigron** · 11-11-2015, 08:02 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

No harm in raising as many queries before the purchase. Helps eliminating any nasty surprises later.

I do extensive touring. On a typical tour we cover around 600 kms a day/single stretch with stops. I normally ride my own bike but have swapped often with fellow riders. Extensively rode the B king with a touring screen and loved it. But then again its a large bike with enough space to stretch. Hopped on to a friends Yamaha FZ1 and kawasaki z1000 and hated them. To much stress on the wrists and the riding position did not suit my lower back.

I guess someone with extensive z800 saddle time should be able to answer your queries. Personally, since I have ridden the Honda for about 250 kms at a stretch I know it ticks all the right boxes as a tourer.

**Hyperion** · 11-12-2015, 06:42 AM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Looks like OP has his heart made up to buy the Z. Just go for it

. Currently you are just tossing a coin but rooting for a side to come down.

Originally posted by bigron View Post

No harm in raising as many queries before the purchase. Helps eliminating any nasty surprises later.

I do extensive touring. On a typical tour we cover around 600 kms a day/single stretch with stops. I normally ride my own bike but have swapped often with fellow riders. Extensively rode the B king with a touring screen and loved it. But then again its a large bike with enough space to stretch. Hopped on to a friends Yamaha FZ1 and kawasaki z1000 and hated them. To much stress on the wrists and the riding position did not suit my lower back.

I guess someone with extensive z800 saddle time should be able to answer your queries. Personally, since I have ridden the Honda for about 250 kms at a stretch I know it ticks all the right boxes as a tourer.

I recently did a 3.5K ride on the Z. This included an 8.5 hour Pune-Bangalore ride. The only issue I had was windblast buffeting past 130. If you are in an especially windy area, it may get worse. I guess the windscreen would help a bit but it kind of ruins the look for me.

The comfort over bad roads is very good. Much better than my Duke infact. I had no issues with back or wrist ache either.

See my thread in this forum for more details.

**forcooler** · 11-13-2015, 06:58 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Originally posted by bigron View Post

No harm in raising as many queries before the purchase. Helps eliminating any nasty surprises later.

I do extensive touring. On a typical tour we cover around 600 kms a day/single stretch with stops. I normally ride my own bike but have swapped often with fellow riders. Extensively rode the B king with a touring screen and loved it. But then again its a large bike with enough space to stretch. Hopped on to a friends Yamaha FZ1 and kawasaki z1000 and hated them. To much stress on the wrists and the riding position did not suit my lower back.

I guess someone with extensive z800 saddle time should be able to answer your queries. Personally, since I have ridden the Honda for about 250 kms at a stretch I know it ticks all the right boxes as a tourer.

Thanks bigron, now those experiences do help and especially from someone who's been on the saddle of the honda. I think I'll come to decision soon.

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by Hyperion View Post

Looks like OP has his heart made up to buy the Z. Just go for it

. Currently you are just tossing a coin but rooting for a side to come down.

I recently did a 3.5K ride on the Z. This included an 8.5 hour Pune-Bangalore ride. The only issue I had was windblast buffeting past 130. If you are in an especially windy area, it may get worse. I guess the windscreen would help a bit but it kind of ruins the look for me.

The comfort over bad roads is very good. Much better than my Duke infact. I had no issues with back or wrist ache either.

See my thread in this forum for more details.

Thanks Hyperion, that was just the reply I've needed. I have gone through your thread a few times in fact and it's an informative one. The last post with photos was pretty amazing. So basically the z800 can tour as well, what can't it do hehe.

But tbh I'm still 50-50 on the bikes, I do feel that technically the z800 is the better bike and value proposition hands down, however, I have to figure out if it's the better bike for me. I've always planned to get a 600 faired i4 and there's only one decent option in the market (not considering race replicas which are in a different price band), it's probably why Honda has priced it higher than expected in most markets internationally as well. But the z800 is a disruptive product and that's what makes the choice difficult.

However, I think I can come to a decision soon and I'm happy that whatever my decision is, it'll be an informed one.

**Deathwing** · 12-14-2015, 11:17 PM

Re: Z800 or the cbr 650

Originally posted by forcooler View Post

Hi Guys, firstly, sorry for the long post

Now before you go off on me for comparing two different categories of bikes, I urge you to read on.

Long time! So I've been thinking about an upgrade to 600 for quite sometime now( no, my dear 8 year old 220 fi isn't going anywhere, I'm married to it :P ). After a lot of deliberating and eliminating options like the Benelli 600i(never dreamed of that brand), Ninja 650 ( not a Inline-4,plus not so great after sales) and the Street Triple ( somehow didn't connect with the bike on more than couple decent test rides,plus the stock setup has the least power while commanding the highest price among the options), it's come down to two bikes which are not only in different categories but also call to very different sides of me as a rider.

The final choice is the rather talked about one between the z800 and the new cbr 650. To be honest it was the 650s high pricing that pushed me to the z800 segment. Now I've ridden both bikes on test rides that were short but enough to get an idea about the them, and I'm thoroughly confused.

Just to add some background, I've toured a lot on my 220 over the years as well used it as a daily commuter. Since I was in Pune at that time, I also did the "Lavasa weekend cornering practice" thing on several amazing sundays. It is on the highways that I miss having more power. However, I have already mentioned that I have no intention to sell this off, in fact I imagine for around the town tasks the 220 would still be the go-to bike.

So here is what I'm roughly listing down as pros and cons for each of those bikes for me personally as a rider. I'm hoping that while I pen these down, I can gain clarity in my own thoughts. I've only listed ones which aren't common in both.

CBR 650:

Pros:
A faired bike ( while the design looks slightly dated to me, I'm among those who always wanted "that bike" and sketched on notebooks)

Linear power delivery makes you ride the bike without thinking much

More Comfortable - would aid touring and pillion riding

Windscreen

I perceive it as a bike which always delivers and is tension-free despite lacking the oomph in its character

Cons:
Slightly boring because it is that easy to ride, lacks the punch that the 220 had in it's time.

Average styling and hence lesser presence, it not bad looking but not a stunner either

Possibly over-priced ? ( considering that it's the only faired i4 below 10, not counting the 600gt which doesn't seem practical for city use)

the engine felt slightly buzzy which was unexpected from a honda

A CKD at the price of a CBU

Doesn't feel as premium as the Z800

Z800:

Pros:
Looks amazing and what presence, rather so amazing that I'm actually considering it against a faired "CBR"

Loads of low end torque, almost like what an 800 version of a 220 would be

The power delivery is extremely fun on this one

A CBU at the price of a CKD :P

Super-smooth engine

Feels like a premium product

I perceive it as a bike with a lot of character and which is more fun at the cost of the bike being a hassle to ride at times

Cons:
My stigma against naked bikes

Windblast at higher speeds

Less Comfort in terms of touring as it is slightly cramped as well (i'm just over 6 feet)

Pillion may not be very comfortable

Naked :P

What's ok on both bikes for me:

Both are relatively easy to ride around town, cbr being slightly easier

The Z800 weighs more but in comparison to cbr which is heavy itself, it doesn't matter much

Sound is better on the kwacker but I don't mind the Honda signature as well

Service costs are acceptable on both bikes

FE lower on z800 but not by much afaik

Slightly boring dash on the cbr, but not too much of a deal

Looking forward to your perspective on this, also add points that I should consider in case I've missed them.

If you think a lot about touring go for the cbr 650f,And i mean a lot and cornering i heard is hard on the z. Both are fantastic bike, i honestly think the z has better value for money and simply looks better, But if u looking for reliability and long mile munching bike and a decent FE cbr will tick all the boxes,or if u are touring very occasionally and u do a lot of short rides go for the Z.

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Z800 or the cbr 650

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