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  • Originally posted by kb100 View Post
    actually the initial models of kb100 also came with munjal showa rear shocks , i still have the original pair with me
    Yup! even the front Cerianis were Showa!
    1985 Yamaha RD350 HT
    1989 Ki-Honda 110
    1994 Suzuki Shogun
    1997 Yamaha RX135
    2008 Yamaha FZ
    Suzuki Supra Powerup
    IND-SUZUKI AX100
    Hero IMPULSE
    TVS NTORQ


    No Cams, No Valves, No Headaches.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by msranade View Post
      Few Prowler Pics for your reference.

      Technical Specification of Prowler RR 125

      Engine : Two Stroke, Single Cylinder, Natural air Cooled.
      Engine Displacement : 123 CC.
      Max. Net Power : 12.50 PS at 7250 RPM.
      Ignition System : Electronic Ignition.
      Spark Plug : Mico/Bosch W 5 DC
      Engine Lubrication : Separate Oil Injection Pump. (With Low Oil Indicator on Instrument Console.)
      Transmission : 5 Speed
      Front Brake : Hydraulically Operated Ventilated Disk Brake (Amazing BREMBO Brake System)
      Rear Brake : Mechanical Expanding Shoe Type.
      Fuel Tank Capacity : 14 Liters (Actually it is more than that @ 15.25) Reserve : 3 Liters Usable Reserve : 2 Liters.
      Vehicle Kerb Weight : 121 KG (Heavier than the KB 125 or any other bike in its class)
      Max Speed : 110 Kms / Hour (I have crossed 120 and needle was at Bottom Bajaj logo with ease)

      Rest all specs are like KB 125.

      On a Instrument Console there are 4 lights
      1. Upper Left Green Indicator is Turn Indicator.
      2. Upper Right Red Indicator is Low Oil Warning Indicator. (Float is installed inside the 2T Oil Container and this Indicator is very very Bright so no one can miss it even in bright day light)
      3. Bottom Left Blue Indicator is High Beam Indicator.
      4. Bottom right Green Indicator is Neutral Gear Position Indicator.

      Highlights of Prowler RR 125. Thanks to Bajaj.

      No Cost Cutting or Compromise Bike.

      1. Munjal Showa Rear Suspension. On earlier KB 100 they were providing Munjal but later they started Gabriel Suspension.
      2. Brembo Brake system. Absolutely fantastic brake system, Indian manufacturers like KBX and Pricol need to learn from them. No brake locking, no skidding, more than 100% Safe and Sure. Not used for few years but still you can operate it with single finger. Wheel is very very free/smooth like a Drum Brake System, No Rubbing of Disk and Pads at all. Till today over a decade no issues with the brake system.
      Catalytic Converter : To minimize Exhaust Gas Emission. To check this claim once went to PUC ctr. With my friend with his 4S Champion. Figures were so shocking, It was just over 4S values. Surprisingly following HH Splender was way higher than Prowler. On this we checked once again to confirm and this time figures were even lower close to 4S. PUC guy said vehicle is very good but why it makes big sound? He assumed it as a 4 stroke vehicle (due to similar shape of Caliber and emission values)
      3. Thanks to Bajaj for providing Front Gripped tire over a standard Ribbed tire. This ensures sure and safe breaking and provide great stability and confidence while cornering.
      4. Low 2T Oil Warning Indicator to eliminate risk of running out of 2T Oil and prevention of possible damage to the Engine.
      5. Halogen head lamp, and quality Car like wiring harness.
      6. Rubber boot (Cover) for Front Shock Absorbed.

      Prowler price was higher than KB 125 but it was worth to pay that extra amount.

      Experience of riding this beauty is excellent, Engine is smooth and full with power, Suspension is like a premium sedan, handling and control is superb. Braking is sure and safe. Headlight beam covers every corner of the road, hence even safe for night driving. Overall it is a great bike.

      Decade back this bike was a head turner and even now it is for sure...
      FINALLY!!!!!!!!! The mythical prowler in the flesh!!!!! Looks gorgeous. Keep her safe my man!!!!! so very safe...
      True blue smoke makes the devil's blood run cold

      Comment


      • Originally posted by msranade View Post
        Few Prowler Pics for your reference.

        Technical Specification of Prowler RR 125

        Engine : Two Stroke, Single Cylinder, Natural air Cooled.
        Engine Displacement : 123 CC.
        Max. Net Power : 12.50 PS at 7250 RPM.
        Ignition System : Electronic Ignition.
        Spark Plug : Mico/Bosch W 5 DC
        Engine Lubrication : Separate Oil Injection Pump. (With Low Oil Indicator on Instrument Console.)
        Transmission : 5 Speed
        Front Brake : Hydraulically Operated Ventilated Disk Brake (Amazing BREMBO Brake System)
        Rear Brake : Mechanical Expanding Shoe Type.
        Fuel Tank Capacity : 14 Liters (Actually it is more than that @ 15.25) Reserve : 3 Liters Usable Reserve : 2 Liters.
        Vehicle Kerb Weight : 121 KG (Heavier than the KB 125 or any other bike in its class)
        Max Speed : 110 Kms / Hour (I have crossed 120 and needle was at Bottom Bajaj logo with ease)

        Rest all specs are like KB 125.

        Prowler price was higher than KB 125 but it was worth to pay that extra amount.

        Experience of riding this beauty is excellent, Engine is smooth and full with power, Suspension is like a premium sedan, handling and control is superb. Braking is sure and safe. Headlight beam covers every corner of the road, hence even safe for night driving. Overall it is a great bike.

        Decade back this bike was a head turner and even now it is for sure...
        You have a beauty there....As someone involved initially with the transition of KB100 to RTZ and Delta engine,I always had a first hand info and Pre-release ride testing of the KB series till KB125...I stopped my interaction with Khivraj and Bajaj thereafter, and when Prowler was introduced I had no info of it..When I came to know of it and went to Khivraj, they said like the 125 this too had been withdrawn....
        Thanks for posting the Images of The Pristine Condition Prowler.
        P.S. I still have my 1987 KB100..
        When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by psr View Post
          ....As someone involved initially with the transition of KB100 to RTZ and Delta engine,I always had a first hand info and Pre-release ride testing of the KB series till KB125...P.S. I still have my 1987 KB100..
          psr Anna, i always felt that there is a deep connect between you and your KB. now that you have partially revealed your association with the evolution of the KB100 ... 'yeh dil maange more'.

          it would be an education for newbies like me if you could share your experience with BAL and the different things tried and tested during the transition of the KB100 to the KB125. my engine rebuild is currently on so it will help me in understanding things better. i'm also curious about your other exploits. i know you'll never go about it in a chest-thumping manner, in fact, i'm not even sure if you'll reveal anything at all. but if you do, we will benefit immensely.

          warm regards

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rookieraj View Post
            psr Anna, i always felt that there is a deep connect between you and your KB. now that you have partially revealed your association with the evolution of the KB100 ... 'yeh dil maange more'.

            it would be an education for newbies like me if you could share your experience with BAL and the different things tried and tested during the transition of the KB100 to the KB125. my engine rebuild is currently on so it will help me in understanding things better. i'm also curious about your other exploits. i know you'll never go about it in a chest-thumping manner, in fact, i'm not even sure if you'll reveal anything at all. but if you do, we will benefit immensely.

            warm regards
            Since you asked me..An intro of me....I am BA in English Literature,Diploma in Automobile engineering, Diploma in Electronics,Passed ICWA till Inter, had worked as a techno Commercial Man., in a PSU,and as a Quality Control person Inspected 40% of Power station Control Panels in India...presently working as consultant for design & implementation of digital Audio/Video studio in Chennai.I am putting the info because I want you to understand that if you put your mind and effort..you can achieve a lot more things than by being laid back...and I had learnt SO MUCH in Xbhp.
            The first KB100s (which I have) had short length seats(2 inches less),rear foot rest welded to swing arm, a Side draft Mikuni VM19sc,short rear pannier,better flow Megaphone Exhaust,and the engine was a fully imported one.
            The RTZ addressed some of the problems.,
            1. The bore fin size was marginally increased in size to improve cooling
            2. The rear foot rest used to go up and down along with swing arm causing the pillion to loose foot hold.so a separates L shaped piece with foot rest was designed and fitted with additional bracket welded to frame for fixing it.
            3. The seat was short and was not adequate for seating two comfortably...
            so the seat length was increased by 2 inches, and the rear plastic piece was re-engineered to suit this.
            4. the rear pannier was so small that the pillion had no hold...so it was made bigger and lengthier,coming upwards in a curve behind the pillion.
            5.The top speed was improved with larger Main jet changed from 90 to 95....
            6. Many complaints of oil dripping and staining exhaust , lead to design change in the core tube length...The core tube was made smaller in dia to reduce exhaust sound and inner tube extended beyond edge of exhaust outer so that oil from exhaust drip will not leave a stain on exhaust..
            7. The petrol tank of KB100 used to rust due to lack of Lead/TIN coating...In RTZ and after, entire Petrol tank was Lead/Tin coated to prevent this

            With delta engine, the following were added..
            1. A Helmholtz resonator of about 120cc was added in the inlet with opening just behind the Rotary Valve to improve low mid RPM range.
            2. The Carburetor Float bowl was at the same pressure level as the inner, and so a separate breather tube was fixed,ventilated to outside air, to keep the float bowl at atmospheric pressure. This further improved the low mid performance.
            3. The Connecting rod near the small end was made thicker for better strength..
            Engine parts totally indigenous and lead to many failures ,including bore&piston,gears etc.
            Kawasaki and BAL were not interested much in further developments, since stricter pollution norms were being introduced...a KB with Disc brake was seen at workshop.......
            When the KB125 was introduced it was awesome in terms of power and acceleration..It was an all Aluminum bore ie., no inner liner (like R15) and was hard chromed inside.. Unfortunately the technology used was Indian and in trial bikes it self seizures were common at normal speeds of 60 Kmph..The KB125 was an 100% in house development...
            Major changes from KB100..
            1. The bore was an all Aluminum bore made from a totally new design with no sleeve inside..Hard chrome plating was done for resisting wear..The head itself was bigger in size with larger and wider fins to dissipate the heat.
            2. The Left and Right Crankcase were bigger to accommodate the bigger bore..
            3. The crankshaft was made heavier and wider.
            4. The connecting rod was made thicker to withstand the 125 power.
            Two Problems emerged with KB 125...
            1. The Hard chrome plating inside the bore was not uniform and the coating itself started peeling under heat stress.
            2. The oil pump was not improved to deliver better linear oil output to suit the increased displacement and power ...
            by this time Kawasaki and Bajaj had stopped development to-gether on the KB series and the stricter emission on Two strokers were clamped ,leading to the KB series untimely end.
            The KB100 can accept parts from RTZ,and Delta engines....The re-engineered KB125 still shared parts like chasis,outer crankcase,oil pump,petrol tank etc., but the core engine parts were different.
            Throughout my interaction with both BAL engineers and Engineers from Kawasaki, I always found the BAL Engineers to be very willing to listen to customer's opinion and views,while Kawasaki Engineers did not want to ,and had more negative approach to suggestions.
            Last edited by psr; 11-12-2011, 03:55 PM.
            When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

            Comment


            • thank you psr Anna. in one post you have shared so much knowledge about the KB, perhaps more than what i could have learnt in an entire thread.

              so i gather that the resonator was unique to the Delta series of engines. i wonder why it wasn't continued in the KB125?

              about the oil pump, the KB125 has a Mikuni oil pump, the same as the KB100 variants. is there any way in which the output from this pump can be increased?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rookieraj View Post

                so i gather that the resonator was unique to the Delta series of engines. i wonder why it wasn't continued in the KB125?

                This is what i always wanted to know. As per my knowledge, a resonator box improves the low and midrange.. even if it does not, atleast it does not hamper the perf. in anyway. Thats why later most Yamahas incl. MX racers came with YEIS.
                1985 Yamaha RD350 HT
                1989 Ki-Honda 110
                1994 Suzuki Shogun
                1997 Yamaha RX135
                2008 Yamaha FZ
                Suzuki Supra Powerup
                IND-SUZUKI AX100
                Hero IMPULSE
                TVS NTORQ


                No Cams, No Valves, No Headaches.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rookieraj View Post
                  thank you psr Anna. in one post you have shared so much knowledge about the KB, perhaps more than what i could have learnt in an entire thread.

                  so i gather that the resonator was unique to the Delta series of engines. i wonder why it wasn't continued in the KB125?

                  about the oil pump, the KB125 has a Mikuni oil pump, the same as the KB100 variants. is there any way in which the output from this pump can be increased?
                  The resonator should be fine tuned to each engine design..When the KB125 came the sample model had it, but The performance with or without it made no difference, so they removed it from design...In fact right from the original KB100 released in 1986/87 the right side crankcase has an outline for the resonator piping..
                  The mikuni oil pump can be made to deliver more oil output by adjusting the pump lever setting.
                  Originally posted by yamdoot View Post
                  This is what i always wanted to know. As per my knowledge, a resonator box improves the low and midrange.. even if it does not, atleast it does not hamper the perf. in anyway. Thats why later most Yamahas incl. MX racers came with YEIS.
                  The truth is Yamaha used Yamaha Energy Induction System(YEIS), a resonator much before BAL used it in Delta Engine.Yamaha started using it as early as 1982 in TZ 250 motors.
                  When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                  Comment


                  • psr sir you are a walking talking encyclopedia on bikes
                    Kawasaki KB100/enduro/125 substitute parts list http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/508615-post105.html

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kb100 View Post
                      psr sir you are a walking talking encyclopedia on bikes
                      So right!!! Talk to him about anything and you'll be like......
                      BTW my bike has a damaged throttle adjusting screw(thanks to local auto mechanic who tried to open the throttle assembly, but i had no a choice then....long story). Is there any alternative part I can replace with?
                      Also there is a rubber washer on the top of the carburattor cover. I've lost that too and am worried since water and dit can enter easily. Help!!
                      Tour De Thekkady

                      The Return of the KB

                      The Run-in Adventure

                      150cc doing 100+ is great!
                      100cc doing 100+ is awesome!!
                      150cc cornering like hell is great!
                      100cc cornering like hell is awesome!!
                      THAT'S WHY I RIDE A RTZ!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by harishkumarko View Post
                        So right!!! Talk to him about anything and you'll be like......
                        BTW my bike has a damaged throttle adjusting screw(thanks to local auto mechanic who tried to open the throttle assembly, but i had no a choice then....long story). Is there any alternative part I can replace with?
                        Also there is a rubber washer on the top of the carburattor cover. I've lost that too and am worried since water and dit can enter easily. Help!!
                        throttle adjusting screw, i have to assume that it it the hexagonal part with the locking nut , in the acclerator cable , if thats the part then replace the cable , "there is a rubber washer on the top of the carburetor cover" im assuming its the small rubber packing under the carburetor cap , if thats the part then get yourself a similar part from a suzuki or yamaha and use it after modifiying it by making another hole for the idle control screw
                        Kawasaki KB100/enduro/125 substitute parts list http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/508615-post105.html

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kb100 View Post
                          psr sir you are a walking talking encyclopedia on bikes
                          Ha ha ,don't joke, what I don't know is so much more, I am still learning.
                          Originally posted by harishkumarko View Post
                          So right!!! Talk to him about anything and you'll be like......
                          BTW my bike has a damaged throttle adjusting screw(thanks to local auto mechanic who tried to open the throttle assembly, but i had no a choice then....long story). Is there any alternative part I can replace with?
                          Also there is a rubber washer on the top of the carburattor cover. I've lost that too and am worried since water and dit can enter easily. Help!!
                          Post a pic of the parts you need and we will try to get it for you.Give me a call and come over, and will see what can be done..
                          When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by psr View Post
                            Ha ha ,don't joke, what I don't know is so much more, I am still learning.
                            its not a joke sir ,its the truth, and im not the only one who thinks so
                            Kawasaki KB100/enduro/125 substitute parts list http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/508615-post105.html

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by psr View Post
                              Since you asked me..An intro of me....I am BA in English Literature,Diploma in Automobile engineering, Diploma in Electronics,Passed ICWA till Inter, had worked as a techno Commercial Man., in a PSU,and as a Quality Control person Inspected 40% of Power station Control Panels in India...presently working as consultant for design & implementation of digital Audio/Video studio in Chennai.I am putting the info because I want you to understand that if you put your mind and effort..you can achieve a lot more things than by being laid back...and I had learnt SO MUCH in Xbhp.
                              The first KB100s (which I have) had short length seats(2 inches less),rear foot rest welded to swing arm, a Side draft Mikuni VM19sc,short rear pannier,better flow Megaphone Exhaust,and the engine was a fully imported one.
                              The RTZ addressed some of the problems.,
                              1. The bore fin size was marginally increased in size to improve cooling
                              2. The rear foot rest used to go up and down along with swing arm causing the pillion to loose foot hold.so a separates L shaped piece with foot rest was designed and fitted with additional bracket welded to frame for fixing it.
                              3. The seat was short and was not adequate for seating two comfortably...
                              so the seat length was increased by 2 inches, and the rear plastic piece was re-engineered to suit this.
                              4. the rear pannier was so small that the pillion had no hold...so it was made bigger and lengthier,coming upwards in a curve behind the pillion.
                              5.The top speed was improved with larger Main jet changed from 90 to 95....
                              6. Many complaints of oil dripping and staining exhaust , lead to design change in the core tube length...The core tube was made smaller in dia to reduce exhaust sound and inner tube extended beyond edge of exhaust outer so that oil from exhaust drip will not leave a stain on exhaust..
                              7. The petrol tank of KB100 used to rust due to lack of Lead/TIN coating...In RTZ and after, entire Petrol tank was Lead/Tin coated to prevent this

                              With delta engine, the following were added..
                              1. A Helmholtz resonator of about 120cc was added in the inlet with opening just behind the Rotary Valve to improve low mid RPM range.
                              2. The Carburetor Float bowl was at the same pressure level as the inner, and so a separate breather tube was fixed,ventilated to outside air, to keep the float bowl at atmospheric pressure. This further improved the low mid performance.
                              3. The Connecting rod near the small end was made thicker for better strength..
                              Engine parts totally indigenous and lead to many failures ,including bore&piston,gears etc.
                              Kawasaki and BAL were not interested much in further developments, since stricter pollution norms were being introduced...a KB with Disc brake was seen at workshop.......
                              When the KB125 was introduced it was awesome in terms of power and acceleration..It was an all Aluminum bore ie., no inner liner (like R15) and was hard chromed inside.. Unfortunately the technology used was Indian and in trial bikes it self seizures were common at normal speeds of 60 Kmph..The KB125 was an 100% in house development...
                              Major changes from KB100..
                              1. The bore was an all Aluminum bore made from a totally new design with no sleeve inside..Hard chrome plating was done for resisting wear..The head itself was bigger in size with larger and wider fins to dissipate the heat.
                              2. The Left and Right Crankcase were bigger to accommodate the bigger bore..
                              3. The crankshaft was made heavier and wider.
                              4. The connecting rod was made thicker to withstand the 125 power.
                              Two Problems emerged with KB 125...
                              1. The Hard chrome plating inside the bore was not uniform and the coating itself started peeling under heat stress.
                              2. The oil pump was not improved to deliver better linear oil output to suit the increased displacement and power ...
                              by this time Kawasaki and Bajaj had stopped development to-gether on the KB series and the stricter emission on Two strokers were clamped ,leading to the KB series untimely end.
                              The KB100 can accept parts from RTZ,and Delta engines....The re-engineered KB125 still shared parts like chasis,outer crankcase,oil pump,petrol tank etc., but the core engine parts were different.
                              Throughout my interaction with both BAL engineers and Engineers from Kawasaki, I always found the BAL Engineers to be very willing to listen to customer's opinion and views,while Kawasaki Engineers did not want to ,and had more negative approach to suggestions.

                              What a informative response ! Thanks for your compliments !

                              Good to know that you still have beauty with you.

                              RTZ was a model with solutions to all known problems hence they named it as RTZ (Reduced To Zero) Meaning All Problems Reduced To Zero RTZ.
                              Best Regards,
                              Manoj
                              1978 Bajaj Chetak, 1979 Rajdoot, 1989 Japan & 1995 Yamaha RX 100, 1997 KB 125 RTZ, 1998 Shogun, 1999 Scooty ES, 2001 Prowler RR125 & Royal Enfield Machismo 350 AVL, 2004 Thunderbird.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by psr View Post
                                The resonator should be fine tuned to each engine design..When the KB125 came the sample model had it, but The performance with or without it made no difference, so they removed it from design...In fact right from the original KB100 released in 1986/87 the right side crankcase has an outline for the resonator piping..
                                The mikuni oil pump can be made to deliver more oil output by adjusting the pump lever setting.

                                The truth is Yamaha used Yamaha Energy Induction System(YEIS), a resonator much before BAL used it in Delta Engine.Yamaha started using it as early as 1982 in TZ 250 motors.
                                Thank you for providing information about the Resonator. I was planning to add resonator to my KB125 or Prowler RR 125. If there is no improvement in performance I should better drop this Idea.
                                Best Regards,
                                Manoj
                                1978 Bajaj Chetak, 1979 Rajdoot, 1989 Japan & 1995 Yamaha RX 100, 1997 KB 125 RTZ, 1998 Shogun, 1999 Scooty ES, 2001 Prowler RR125 & Royal Enfield Machismo 350 AVL, 2004 Thunderbird.

                                Comment

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