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**The Monk** · 04-23-2013, 03:20 PM

Query Approved

**bbsrailfan** · 04-23-2013, 04:22 PM

P220 to Duke is not really an 'upgrade'...they have very similar power and speeds

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

Hi,

Liquid cooled engine: I know that the coolant needs to be changed to be changed every 3000 or so kms, and that the engine can work much harder (more RPMs?) since it has a cooling system. Is there anything else I should know?
- Also, some users have complained about heating issues, while others have said that's expected in traffic; since I've no inkling of "expected" hot vs. urgent-coolant-required hot, how do I ensure I don't decimate the engine and don't get paranoid about the heat at the same time?
- On the same grounds, I also remember reading about coolant levels oscillating - this makes life even tougher for me because if that's also expected, I don't know any other way of objectively determining what to do (or when to do it)!
Fuel Injection: All I know about a carburettor is that its job is to mix air and fuel before sending it to the engine (via intake?). All I know about a fuel injector is that it does the same thing, electronically. I also vaguely remember reading that one shouldn't rev up while starting an FI engine: is this true? Why, if yes - and what should I do if the engine refuses to start without some 'incentive'?
Petrol: I remember reading that the compression ratio is high hence it needs high octane fuel, etc. I'm curious: what happens when someone who doesn't know/doesn't bother (not me) keeps feeding the engine 'normal' petrol?
Adjustments: I noted the following things done by users here:
- Chain hitting swingarm: some rubber solution. Do I need to worry about this too?
- Gear lever too hard: I just remember it was a complicated fix
- Cold start/engine dying: I remember reading about ECU flashing? I'm assuming that means flashing the firmware on the bike's microcontroller - if so, the new Dukes' ECUs should be up-to-date anyway, right?
- Suspension: how do I know what level works best for me?

Any other advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance!

Liquid cooled engine: 3000kms? That is overkill...it is recommended to change the coolant at 10000kms practically it is good to go for 15000kms. You may need to top it up once in a few months, depending on drop in coolant levels. It is normal for Liquid cooled engines to get heated in bumper-to-bumper traffic. The heat is felt more in naked bikes, as there is no fairing to protect your legs from the heat.
Fuel Injection: You are spot on about FI. Regarding your query about revving, it's not that "you can't' rev up a FI engine, but it should rather be "you needn't". FI engines are come with an auto-choke feature, which eliminates the need for manual chokes and gives your bike that little "incentive" everytime you crank up. However, it is always recommended to let your engine idle for ~30secs when starting her up for the first time after a long rest. And when you turn on a bike, it performs a self check (just like a computer). It's always recommended to allow the ECU to complete the self-checks before starting the bike, everytime.
Petrol: I use Shell regular on CBR250 and it is just fine.

Adjustments:
Chain sliders are easily available.
No idea about gear levers on Duke.
ECU Flashing: Again, no idea.
Suspension: Ideally, it should be stiff enough to let you lean safely into corners, and soft enough to absorb the potholes on indian roads.

**pickandwhammy** · 04-23-2013, 06:13 PM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post

P220 to Duke is not really an 'upgrade'...they have very similar power and speeds

Liquid cooled engine: 3000kms? That is overkill...it is recommended to change the coolant at 10000kms practically it is good to go for 15000kms. You may need to top it up once in a few months, depending on drop in coolant levels. It is normal for Liquid cooled engines to get heated in bumper-to-bumper traffic. The heat is felt more in naked bikes, as there is no fairing to protect your legs from the heat.
Fuel Injection: You are spot on about FI. Regarding your query about revving, it's not that "you can't' rev up a FI engine, but it should rather be "you needn't". FI engines are come with an auto-choke feature, which eliminates the need for manual chokes and gives your bike that little "incentive" everytime you crank up. However, it is always recommended to let your engine idle for ~30secs when starting her up for the first time after a long rest. And when you turn on a bike, it performs a self check (just like a computer). It's always recommended to allow the ECU to complete the self-checks before starting the bike, everytime.
Petrol: I use Shell regular on CBR250 and it is just fine.

Adjustments:
Chain sliders are easily available.
No idea about gear levers on Duke.
ECU Flashing: Again, no idea.
Suspension: Ideally, it should be stiff enough to let you lean safely into corners, and soft enough to absorb the potholes on indian roads.

Thanks a lot - that gave me quite a bit of clarity! I know it's not much of an 'upgrade' as such, but it's the piece that fits the hole best, considering everything. If only I could afford the Ninja, heh!
A follow up question, if you don't mind: with regard to the heating, I understood your point completely, but let me try and rephrase the question: I'm trying to ascertain when I should worry about engine heat, or should I not worry at all because that kind of "issue" is as unlikely as winning the lottery?

**jhonmathews** · 04-23-2013, 06:54 PM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

Hi,

Liquid cooled engine: I know that the coolant needs to be changed to be changed every 3000 or so kms, and that the.....
Also, some users have complained about heating issues, while others have said that's expected in traffic; since I've no inkling of "expected"
On the same grounds, I also remember reading about coolant levels oscillating - this makes life even tougher for me because if that's also expected, I don't know any other way of objectively determining what to do (or when to do it)!

[*]Fuel Injection: All I know about a carburettor is that its job is to mix air and fuel before sending it to the engine (via intake?). All I know about a fuel injector is that it does the same thing, electronically. I also vaguely remember reading that one shouldn't rev up while starting an FI engine: is this true? Why, if yes - and what should I do if the engine refuses to start without some 'incentive'?[*]Petrol: I remember reading that the compression ratio is high hence it needs high octane fuel, etc. I'm curious: what happens when someone who doesn't know/doesn't bother (not me) keeps feeding the engine 'normal' petrol?[*]Adjustments: I noted the following things done by users here:

Chain hitting swingarm: some rubber solution. Do I need to worry about this too?
Gear lever too hard: I just remember it was a complicated fix
Cold start/engine dying: I remember reading about ECU flashing? I'm assuming that means flashing the firmware on the bike's microcontroller - if so, the new Dukes' ECUs should be up-to-date anyway, right?
Suspension: how do I know what level works best for me?

[/LIST]

Any other advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance!

The coolant, engine oil and air filter should be changed according to what the manual says. They know their bike the best and its advised you stick to it. As for the rpm, liquid cooling isn't just about how hard you can rev it. Its about the fact that the duke can maintain a high rpm for a very long time whereas the p220 may not.
Also, I do believe that its a very good upgrade because when one upgrades its not only the power which is seen. You have better comfort, a whole different segment etc.

Traffic heating as mention by someone earlier is very common. As a precaution you can switch off the engine when the signal is red if there's more than 30 seconds to go. Saves you petrol as well. Its a good practice to keep an eye out for the temperature gauge.

Yes fi didn't need revving because there no choke but what you heard about the cold start ( say first start on the morning?) Might be that you shouldn't Rev any bike hard when it is started. Give it some time (30-40 seconds) for the engine oil to circulate and for it to heat up. This is a very basic rule. Also,the first 4kms after this is to be ridden slowly as if breaking in.

Fi flashing or 'remapping' of the ecu means what you said. It means you can change/ rewrite the software so the fi would function in a different way. But it isn't recommended unless you know what you're doing.

as for petrol, any normal petrol works. Adulterated petrol is best avoided though

I'll post a thread for a further read

KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/116310-ktm-duke-200-baby-duke-222-unites-her-new-family.html

KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

**somen1984** · 04-23-2013, 07:03 PM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Ride your P220 for some more months and save money later buy a D390. That would be called as an upgrade in all sense.

**pickandwhammy** · 04-23-2013, 07:11 PM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Originally posted by jhonmathews View Post

The coolant, engine oil and air filter should be changed according to what the manual says. They know their bike the best and its advised you stick to it. As for the rpm, liquid cooling isn't just about how hard you can rev it. Its about the fact that the duke can maintain a high rpm for a very long time whereas the p220 may not.
Also, I do believe that its a very good upgrade because when one upgrades its not only the power which is seen. You have better comfort, a whole different segment etc.

I hope the Duke manual is nothing like the 220 one, because the latter's near-useless. In any case, I wouldn't deliberately go against the manual. And I agree with you on the upgrade - I'd initially shortlisted the R15 (technically a downgrade), but after one test ride my favourite was unquestionably the Duke!

Originally posted by jhonmathews View Post

Traffic heating as mention by someone earlier is very common. As a precaution you can switch off the engine when the signal is red if there's more than 30 seconds to go. Saves you petrol as well. Its a good practice to keep an eye out for the temperature gauge.

My default reflex is to kill the engine on a red signal, so I guess I'm good that way. Should I also turn the key "off"? As of now I only use the killswitch.

Originally posted by jhonmathews View Post

Yes fi didn't need revving because there no choke but what you heard about the cold start ( say first start on the morning?) Might be that you shouldn't Rev any bike hard when it is started. Give it some time (30-40 seconds) for the engine oil to circulate and for it to heat up. This is a very basic rule. Also,the first 4kms after this is to be ridden slowly as if breaking in.

This is new - thank you for the information!

Originally posted by jhonmathews View Post

Fi flashing or 'remapping' of the ecu means what you said. It means you can change/ rewrite the software so the fi would function in a different way. But it isn't recommended unless you know what you're doing.

as for petrol, any normal petrol works. Adulterated petrol is best avoided though

I'll post a thread for a further read

KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family! - Team-BHP

I've already gone through that thread

And I wouldn't dare flash the ECU myself (even though I flash my phone everyday)!

Thanks for your response!

EDIT:

Originally posted by somen1984 View Post

Ride your P220 for some more months and save money later buy a D390. That would be called as an upgrade in all sense.

I had considered that, but I don't think I'm ready to spend over two lakhs on a bike, yet. Plus, since I'm an auto-n00b, I'd much rather buy a bike which has been well reviewed and has a decent number of "satisfied owners", LOL!
Also, I estimate over three-quarters of my driving will be in the city, in traffic, commuting to and from work. Maybe a couple of late night rides a month, and maybe a road-trip once or twice a year. So the 390 will be a bit of an overkill for my usage. Of course, I might be wrong!

**bbsrailfan** · 04-23-2013, 07:48 PM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

I'm trying to ascertain when I should worry about engine heat, or should I not worry at all because that kind of "issue" is as unlikely as winning the lottery?

Mostly it is not a reason for worry under highway/city riding. However, if you are ripping hard, keep an eye on the temperature bars on the console occasionally to ensure it doesn't go above the company-recommended levels.

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

Should I also turn the key "off"? As of now I only use the killswitch.

I don't think you need to be that cautious!! :chill: Killswitch does suffice

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

I had considered that, but I don't think I'm ready to spend over two lakhs on a bike, yet. Plus, since I'm an auto-n00b, I'd much rather buy a bike which has been well reviewed and has a decent number of "satisfied owners", LOL!
Also, I estimate over three-quarters of my driving will be in the city, in traffic, commuting to and from work. Maybe a couple of late night rides a month, and maybe a road-trip once or twice a year. So the 390 will be a bit of an overkill for my usage. Of course, I might be wrong!

If you are riding a P220, you shouldn't be calling yourself a noob - the 220 is one of the most capable and VFM bikes on the 200cc+ category.

Looking at your usage, I would rather suggest you stick to the 220 for the time being. The Duke may give you a placebo-effect or an imaginary kick initially, but a few weeks down the line, you won't feel any difference from the 220, except for maybe the revvy engine. The D390, as suggested by others, is more of a real upgrade, and I'd suggest the same.

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

(even though I flash my phone everyday)!

Offtopic: are you a member at XDA as well?

**pickandwhammy** · 04-23-2013, 07:59 PM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post

Mostly it is not a reason for worry under highway/city riding. However, if you are ripping hard, keep an eye on the temperature bars on the console occasionally to ensure it doesn't go above the company-recommended levels.

Eye on the temp gauge, got it!

Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post

If you are riding a P220, you shouldn't be calling yourself a noob - the 220 is one of the most capable and VFM bikes on the 200cc+ category.

Looking at your usage, I would rather suggest you stick to the 220 for the time being. The Duke may give you a placebo-effect or an imaginary kick initially, but a few weeks down the line, you won't feel any difference from the 220, except for maybe the revvy engine. The D390, as suggested by others, is more of a real upgrade, and I'd suggest the same.

I agree, the 220 has served me well, over three years now, and I'm quite happy with the kick it gives (I'd be sh*t scared to sit as pillion behind myself - I've almost fallen off behind less-aggressive riders) - hence the "lack" of kick from an upgrade point-of-view is really not an issue for me.
I'd still rather wait for the hardcore enthusiasts to own the 390 for a few months before I even think about it; if I'm pulled towards it, I can use the placebo for now and get it next year - by then I'll be able to afford it too!

Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post

Offtopic: are you a member at XDA as well?

Very much so, same handle. And that's the reason I call myself an auto-n00b, because even though I'm quite happy with my riding skills, I compare my knowledge about bikes vs. tech, and it's a no brainer

**bbsrailfan** · 04-23-2013, 08:12 PM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

Eye on the temp gauge, got it!

Eyes on the road saar...pleeeze!!!!

kiddin'!!

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

I agree, the 220 has served me well, over three years now, and I'm quite happy with the kick it gives (I'd be sh*t scared to sit as pillion behind myself - I've almost fallen off behind less-aggressive riders) - hence the "lack" of kick from an upgrade point-of-view is really not an issue for me.
I'd still rather wait for the hardcore enthusiasts to own the 390 for a few months before I even think about it; if I'm pulled towards it, I can use the placebo for now and get it next year - by then I'll be able to afford it too!

Good luck then

We have a great fraternity here and lots of experienced riders who can help you with any query.

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

Very much so, same handle. And that's the reason I call myself an auto-n00b, because even though I'm quite happy with my riding skills, I compare my knowledge about bikes vs. tech, and it's a no brainer

I too go by the same handle on XDA - though I am no longer active there.

**jhonmathews** · 04-23-2013, 11:48 PM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Originally posted by pickandwhammy View Post

I hope the Duke manual is nothing like the 220 one, because the latter's near-useless. In any case, I wouldn't deliberately go against the manual. And I agree with you on the upgrade - I'd initially shortlisted the R15 (technically a downgrade), but after one test ride my favourite was unquestionably the Duke!

Shouldn't be. KTM is a good company and has a reputation to live upto. You can check on the internet if you can manage to find a PDF copy and read up on the manual

My default reflex is to kill the engine on a red signal, so I guess I'm good that way. Should I also turn the key "off"? As of now I only use the killswitch.

As I've been told, less than 30 seconds, you should not switch off the engine(kill switch only). More than thirty, you should switch it off. Reason being, saves petrol. More fuel is used up in starting up than it takes to maintain the bike at a steady neutral.

And I wouldn't dare flash the ECU myself (even though I flash my phone everyday)!

Always good to see a person sharing a common interest. I just flashed mine yesterday. Sent it from the app as well and now that I see it, the auto correct screwed up a lot of spellings.
Are you from Pune by any chance?

IMHO, You should wait for the new DUKE that is rumored to have ABS in it. It's always a feature that is welcome and KTM shouldn't price the ABS variant very high.

**pickandwhammy** · 04-24-2013, 12:04 AM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Originally posted by jhonmathews View Post

Shouldn't be. KTM is a good company and has a reputation to live upto. You can check on the internet if you can manage to find a PDF copy and read up on the manual.

I've only found this, and it's satisfactory at best.

Originally posted by jhonmathews View Post

As I've been told, less than 30 seconds, you should not switch off the engine(kill switch only). More than thirty, you should switch it off. Reason being, saves petrol. More fuel is used up in starting up than it takes to maintain the bike at a steady neutral.

New info - thanks!

Originally posted by jhonmathews View Post

Always good to see a person sharing a common interest. I just flashed mine yesterday. Sent it from the app as well and now that I see it, the auto correct screwed up a lot of spellings.
Are you from Pune by any chance?
IMHO, You should wait for the new DUKE that is rumored to have ABS in it. It's always a feature that is welcome and KTM shouldn't price the ABS variant very high.

Cheers to custom ROMs!
I'm in Bangalore, and as for the ABS variant: basically I'm selling my Pulsar, going to Calcutta for a month in May, returning in June and getting myself the Duke immediately (I refuse to use autos for transport). This schedule can't be changed any more, so if by then the ABS one is out, I'll consider it, otherwise I'm quite happy with the present version too.

**jhonmathews** · 04-24-2013, 12:44 AM

Re: Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Think it should be out by then. Duke is specially good for city rides because of it's brilliant 0-60 and good control and comfort. I'm a newbie here myself but reading has helped me a lot.

Cheers to CM actually. Will PM you and we can talk more about ROMS.

Happy Buying.

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Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

Upgrading to Duke 200 from Pulsar 220F - looking pointers and useful information

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