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**Divya Sharan** · 05-14-2015, 01:35 AM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

Approved!
Neither of them are fit for rash riding and cutting traffic.
ZMR - best tank range.
CBR - safety net of ABS.
TB - highest torque and great lights.

Sent from my phone. Kindly avoid it while riding.

**anarchy911** · 05-14-2015, 01:50 AM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

No idea about ZMR, but the other bikes are in a league above in the sense of power and torque. Did a test ride of CBR and T500 a few days ago. Loved the Honda engine. Problems with both the bikes:
CBR- production has stopped. Many showrooms dont have it.
T500- vibrates a bit. REs are not so reliable.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using xBhp Connect mobile app

**amritaksha** · 05-14-2015, 11:19 AM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

The Karizma is definitely no push over. It is smooth , reliable and delivers a 30 plus mileage and is much cheaper than the other two bikes Among the CBR and thunderbird for touring alone maybe TB500 is a better bet as it is specifically designed to cater to this segment. The feeling of having an extra 100 km odd range while touring long distance is priceless and at our highway speeds (around 80kmph) it has sufficient power in store. Most highway overtaking manoeuvres usually require accelerating from 60kmph to 80kmph or so and for the same the TB is good enough.
Another factor is the riding position, with mid mounted controls of karizma being most suitable for that occasional times that require standing on the footpegs (and that will be aplenty once you venture eastward) The forward mounted controls of the TB make the same difficult as do the slightly rearset CB controls. For a beginner I feel that Karizma is still a safe bet.

**sparky** · 05-14-2015, 11:27 AM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

If you are looking for rides with mix of roads and long rides then its TB500,
If you are looking for high cruising speed and on good roads then its CBR250,
If you can't afford either of the above then its ZMR

**sandeepks** · 05-14-2015, 11:59 AM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

For a long and worry free ride, you should go for CBR250R. However, I have heard that the production of CBR250R has been stopped in India (correct me if I am wrong). ZMR is a great bike for city and highway, however I feel that the rear brake doesn't encourage you in wet weather and sand as much as the other two bikes that are in your list. If you want to buy the bike now, then I would suggest TB500.

**yellowspunk** · 05-14-2015, 12:06 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

City + Highway + Not cheap = CBR
Highway + Unreliable = TB500
City + Cheap = ZMR

**J.Ravi** · 05-14-2015, 12:41 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

Originally posted by Bourne86 View Post

2. Which one is more comfortable for the rider as well as pillion?

I test-rode CBR250R twice before buying my Thunderbird 500. I did not like the riding position for my height of 6'. My wife too did not feel comfortable as a pillion-rider. In fact, after she vetoed it, I considered Thunderbird 500, which she liked very much as a pillion. She accompanied me on Chennai>Pondy>Chennai ride. No idea about ZMR.

3. Which one is made for long, worry free rides?

Thunderbird 500, thanks to its big tank, contoured rider's seat, discs on both the wheels, nice handlebar position, trip-meters, hazard lights, etc. I have ridden several rides of 1,000+ km in ~24 hours on my Thunderbird 500. The details are here. Except for a puncture while passing through the Krishnagiri toll plaza on NH7, my Thunderbird 500 has not troubled me at all!

**Satellite.kid** · 05-14-2015, 01:46 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

CBR250R hands down.. Thunderbird and ZMR are not close ... not even remotely..

PS: @J.Ravi: Just saw your travel log.. it's quite amazing... keep riding

**Bourne86** · 05-14-2015, 05:18 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Neither of them are fit for rash riding and cutting traffic.
ZMR - best tank range.
CBR - safety net of ABS.
TB - highest torque and great lights.

TB also has a good tank range isn't? Seems like only thing the ZMR can do is to provide you fuel security. ��
You own a Zeemer don't you? How serious is the spares unavailability issue with it?

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Originally posted by amritaksha View Post

The Karizma is definitely no push over. It is smooth , reliable and delivers a 30 plus mileage and is much cheaper than the other two bikes Among the CBR and thunderbird for touring alone maybe TB500 is a better bet as it is specifically designed to cater to this segment. The feeling of having an extra 100 km odd range while touring long distance is priceless and at our highway speeds (around 80kmph) it has sufficient power in store. Most highway overtaking manoeuvres usually require accelerating from 60kmph to 80kmph or so and for the same the TB is good enough.
Another factor is the riding position, with mid mounted controls of karizma being most suitable for that occasional times that require standing on the footpegs (and that will be aplenty once you venture eastward) The forward mounted controls of the TB make the same difficult as do the slightly rearset CB controls. For a beginner I feel that Karizma is still a safe bet.

Cant agre with you more. I think for beginners Karizma is more suitable. But what about vibrations in it at low and high rpms? Also is Karizma stable and rooted on road at high speeds?

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Yes they are bringing some changes in CBR. An I think the wait will be too vexing

**Divya Sharan** · 05-14-2015, 05:36 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

Originally posted by Bourne86 View Post

TB also has a good tank range isn't? Seems like only thing the ZMR can do is to provide you fuel security. ��
You own a Zeemer don't you? How serious is the spares unavailability issue with it?
Cant agre with you more. I think for beginners Karizma is more suitable. But what about vibrations in it at low and high rpms? Also is Karizma stable and rooted on road at high speeds?

Well 600 km for a full tank whilst maintaining 85 kmph is some range!
A karizma can do 100 kmph all day long which clearly the RE fails at. The amount of vibes on an RE at 3 digits is maddening. But yes, 96ish is the sweet spot for a Karizma in top gear because that's where it develops max torque.
Spares are an issue as of now. Regular consumables are available but the less frequently changed parts are never in stock.
If I were in the TS' shoes, I would have picked CBR250R ABS.

Sent from my phone. Kindly avoid it while riding.

**harishkumarko** · 05-14-2015, 05:38 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

1. Which one proves more trustworthy on Indian roads and driving conditions? (Read gravelled, blackened out, potholed roads, roads inside potholes

and not to forget rash and brazen driving).
ZMR: Karizma has proven itself in a long time when it come to tackling bad roads. Not the plushiest suspension around but does the job. When I test drove the 2014 version, I felt the engine was a bit rough.
CBR: I have seen several riders doing mild off road adventures on the CBR. I suppose the suspension is on the softer side.
TB500: AFAIK, most REs are said to handle bad roads well. I never found the TBs handle bar position to my liking so I can't really comment much.

2. Which one is more comfortable for the rider as well as pillion?
ZMR: If it were the previous gen ZMR I would have said eyes closed both would feel comfortable. The pillion is seat is now raised compared to previous version. So not sure if pillion seat is comfortable for long journeys. The seating position was comfortable when I test rode it.
CBR: I found the pillion seat comfort to be OK. I can't comment how it would be on a long ride. The rider seating position is very comfortable and seat is also plush enough.
TB500: Very plush seats for both. But I never found the pillion seat to be comfortable. I felt the rear seat was a bit cramped since most of the space was given for the rider (seems logical for a touring machine).

3. Which one is made for long, worry free rides?
ZMR: Proven in a long time. Absolutely reliable. Only small niggle, the newer versions seem to have mild vibrations at around 90kmph. Just reporting based on what I have read.
CBR: Extremely reliable. The bike is well built. No vibrations. Made for highways.
TB500: Supposedly made for long rides and cruise at decent speeds (90-100kmph). Like I already told you on the other thread, you need to know pros and cons of REs before purchasing one. If you are looking for zero troubles, look elsewhere. Like Divya said, vibes are maddening especially compared to well any other bike.

4. Any other criterias one would like to mention?
ZMR: There is this tappet valve issue being mentioned over and over again. I haven't researched much. Better post in the ZMR 2014 thread for any queries.
CBR: The 250 is probably going to be off showrooms soon and will be replaced by the 300. Make a wise choice. If you get your hands on a 250, you MAY have spares issue but also get a good deal for a bike which is soon going to be off market. Whereas the new 300 will have better performance and looks (subjective). But it will cost you more and you may have to bare with the first batch problems which may be there (happened to the 250).

Postscript: A beginner here.
Hence stay away from RE. Purely my opinion. No offence meant.

**sparky** · 05-14-2015, 05:52 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

I am aghast at how some people are stuck in the bygone era mindset claiming REs to be unreliable. There are small niggle occasionally which almost every bikes has these days and as far as touring comfort goes along with luggage lugging+pillion, then REs cannot be beat.

**Divya Sharan** · 05-14-2015, 06:05 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

Originally posted by sparky View Post

I am aghast at how some people are stuck in the bygone era mindset claiming REs to be unreliable. There are small niggle occasionally which almost every bikes has these days and as far as touring comfort goes along with luggage lugging+pillion, then REs cannot be beat.

Agree with you on the luggage pulling part! REs have bucket loads of torque.

But, these are the things I have personally experienced with RE touring partners:
1. Exhaust pipe falls off!
2. Tail lamp falls off.
3. Engine starts leaking oil (on a 3k km old bike)
4. Lot of vibrations (desi HD - long stroke motor - that IS its nature)
5. A tourer with TT tires. We faced 3 punctures in 2 days. Every time there was a puncture, we lost 30 odd min reparing the same. Why not TL tires?
6. The rider would insist riding at 70 kmph due to vibes at 85+ speeds.
7. Speedo stopped working (one off issue).

All these have happened on the newer Thunderbirds. I hardly make sweeping statements, but as long as such basic issues persist, I don't deem REs as reliable at all!
If you love REs and you're prepared for DIY/more frequent maintenence w.r.t other bikes, go for RE.

Different people have different opinions, but the general consensus is still that RE needs to get its act right before one can fill it, shut it and just tour!

**harishkumarko** · 05-14-2015, 06:08 PM

Re: TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

Originally posted by sparky View Post

I am aghast at how some people are stuck in the bygone era mindset claiming REs to be unreliable. There are small niggle occasionally which almost every bikes has these days and as far as touring comfort goes along with luggage lugging+pillion, then REs cannot be beat.

I can reply to your comment but not this is not the place to have an argument. Kindly help the thread starter.

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TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

TB 500 vs Karizma ZMR vs CBR 250r:Which is a better tourer? [A dispassionate take]

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