Since '02 xBhp is different things to different people. From a close knit national community of bikers to India's only motorcycling lifestyle magazine and a place to make like-minded biker friends. Join us

Castrol Power 1

Squeeze that brake, don’t grat a handful.

Our Partner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Riding Skills Workshop (Delhi): The Next Chapter - Sunday: December 21, 2008

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Thanks!

    Many many thanks to Old Fox for imparting such knowledge to us. We are all very thankful Sir!!

    Also thanks to the attendees there, for joining the next chapter!

    Looking forward for such fruitful G2Gs in future too!
    "HASTA LA VICTORIA, SIEMPRE !" - Chesigpic


    http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/18983-spicy-sour-sweet-short-honeymoon-trip.html

    http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/20306-pursuit-swarghat.html#post716409

    http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/2...sary-trip.html

    http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/2...adventure.html

    http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/2...j-monsoon.html

    Comment


    • #47
      I did miss out on a great opportunity to learn. Hoping to catch up in a personal session. The white board, the black marker and the well built figure conjures up images of army theory sessions - dont ask me how!
      Join xBhp On

      Comment


      • #48
        ^ OF giving training and instructions in a covert operation.

        Anyway... even I wanna catch up. Lets see...
        The Wheel was a great invention; Two Wheels with a Motor in between was even better!


        BMW Motorrad Days 2011

        Xbhp's Indo-French Kashmir-Ladakh Tour

        Comment


        • #49
          Thanks "Setu" for the Write-Up

          Hello everyone, sorry for the late reply, all this blamed to fog, power problems meant that I didn’t get time to write about today’s meet
          Skipping all the previous part, I am coming straight to our theory class. We learned about sprung weight/ unsprung weight, Counter steering and finally cornering.

          *Sprung and Unsprung weight*

          -In simple terms anything below the shockers is unsprung weight and above it is sprung weight.

          -A good motorcycle should ideally have unsprung weight as less as possible for this alloys help to and extent, the other way is the switch to a lower profile.

          -Lighter the unsprung weight, better the holding of the bike.

          -Ideally the US/S ratio is to be maintained. And sprung wieght should be more..

          -Rebound damping is the amount of damp which is ideally required by a bike, it means that the after the shockers move in due to undulation, slower they rebound the better(or was it opposite ) and the rebound damping adjustment is not available in our Indian bikes..

          Rebound damping is availaible in some of the superbieks and is measured by the number of clicks,sunny or ken chacha would be able to throw some light on this point..
          What it actualy deals with is that there is a small jet size thing inside the shocker through which the gas od the shocker passes the no of clicks in the +ve direction would increase the hole and make the compression soft and vica-versa..

          -Ideally the pre load adjustment (the step adjustment in our dual shock
          bikes) is to determine the amount of hardness of the spring which in turn helps in better

          -It is very important to have equal preload in both the shockers in a dual shock bikes as it affects the handling.

          *Dual shock v/s Mono shock setup*

          -Mono shock better than dual as it has lesser travel, it reduces the
          unsprung weight.

          -Due the placement of the mono shock it lies in nearer to the Centre of
          Gravity of the bike which in turn is more stable and also the Center of
          Rotation.

          -Due to heavy weight and unevenness of the production of dual shocks,
          the variation of the handling in different bike will be different. Even
          if coming for same production batch, Even in the same bike both the rear
          shocks will be not be having equivalent characteristics.
          This is the main reason why when you ride two same kind'aa bikes in the showroom you feel the difference that one has got more vibrations or the other has got a better suspension..no two bikes can be same..
          even though they are from the same make,same year,same dealer..etc etc..

          *Counter Steering*

          -Counter steering is about the fact that we every time naturally do it.
          Its about shifting little weight in opposite direction to which one has
          to turn the bike.
          This kind'aa tech,and skill is most ly used by the people who ride the motocross bikes because of variable factros and the track they ride upon..also they concentrate their wight mostly on the position where the centre of gravity and the centre of rotation is..

          *Rake and Trail*

          -Rake angle is the angle made between the horizontal road and the angle
          made by the fork and handle T.

          -While Trail is the distance between contact patch and the imaginary
          line coming from the rake angle and meeting the road.

          -While cruisers have longer trial length, bikes which have sportier
          stance have lesser trial length.

          -Bikes having longer trail length have better straight line stability
          and not that easy to flick while bikes having shorter trail length is
          are more flick able but are relatively less stable in straight
          line(debatable)

          -Eg Pulsar classic is very flick able but had poor handling in high
          speeds (>80kmph), classic fans don’t kill me for this. Karizma stands
          at a stabler position as having trail length of 3inch.

          - +ve trail is when the contact patch is after the rake angle, while –ve
          trail is the one which the contact patch is ahead of the rake angle(Eg
          while coming down on a speed braker)

          *Handling corner*

          -Ideally the slow in fast out is the universal rule and is better to
          stick to this rule(unless you want to land in to hospital)

          -While negotiating a corner, you are supposed to start of the farthest
          side of the lane touch the corner and then accelerate out in your lane,
          late or short entry will mean you land out faster into oncoming traffic

          - Ideally braking should be your last resort, counter steering should be
          first one. Nothing lies in between them.

          *Genreal riding tips:*

          -Don’t look onto the obstacle rather look for the way out. Eye fixation
          on the trouble spot will land you on the trouble.

          -Nothing happens suddenly, every event gives you ample time to see
          understand and act accordingly.

          - I follow the 15 sec scan rule, while riding on highways, in every 15
          sec do a complete scan right from left side to left RVM to center to
          Right RVM to Right side and then to the speedo & tacho. Scan them and
          make changes in mind accordingly. Do not go into a fixation mode. Don’t
          fix your eyes on the road.

          - Ride out and enjoy the ride everytime and everyday, remember everyday
          you are novice for the bike, you may learn from the mistakes committed
          by you, the bike doesn’t and neither forgives.

          - Every new ride is new experience in itself, it just that we don’t come
          to know generally.

          -While commuting make sure that before going out you review in the whole
          route in your mind, so that while riding your mind is not busy thinking
          about the route, rather focusing coming out of the obstacles.

          Remember you can be rossi on the track and not on the road, It kills you
          and others also.
          Many Thanks to "SETU",for the beautiful write up,and my dear genius,you had'nt missed any point..
          Thanks for the mail..
          Last edited by L.P.; 12-22-2008, 04:09 PM. Reason: Indentation Done
          " Nothing Z Forever,Except D Change "

          Spiti ||Binsar || Lansdowne

          Click Here to Subscribe to the xBhp Delhi SMS Channel
          Click here to See my Photography Work

          sigpic

          Comment


          • #50
            @ OF- Thanks again sir for the expert advise.

            @ Setu- Dude some memory u got....excellent writeup.

            Originally posted by BANDHAV View Post
            On a serious note, i hope it will be great session like the last one, as i have already stated in my earlier post that i wont be able to join.


            one thing though...we were heavily outnumbered
            Life is a Lesson....you Learn it once you're through

            Comment


            • #51
              Hi!

              We did have a great time yesterday. And the fact that so many of you rode in despite the cold and the fog is appreciable. Great!

              This was a 'static' G2G. Sit, learn, teach, discuss, think, remember and analyze. All while sitting on a chair, the bikes parked away and helmets out of reach. And yet it was fun..because we talked motorcycling to the hilt.

              Setu/LP put up few of the things we'd gone through. Nice job there guys. There were a few errors here and there and so I am putting up a sort-of corrected version of the same text here. The points of course are pretty cursory at places, quite brief and so possibly confusing...can't be helped...speaking is a lot easier and quicker than writing.

              Sprung and Unsprung weight

              -In simple terms anything below the shockers is unsprung weight and above it is sprung weight.

              -A good motorcycle should ideally have low unsprung weight. Light weight alloy wheels help, so does lower profile rubber, drilled through brake discs, upside down forks, rear monoshocks etc etc.

              -The lower the unsprung weight, the better the road holding of the bike.

              -A certain larger share of the motorcycle weight is sprung and the sprung wt/unsprung wt proportion plays a major role in defining rider comfort, suspension response and handling of the bike.

              - Rebound Damping
              is absorbing the re-bound of the suspension springs. This damping is necessary to avoid the 'pogo-stick' effect of the bike bouncing on undamped springs. Rebound damping has a tough call to answer - in that it has to be fast enough to allow the wheels constant contact with the road and slow enough to make things comfortable for the rider. Most large capacity bikes have adjustments both for pre-load and re-bound damping though all presently sold Indian bikes have only pre-load adjustment.

              -Rebound damping adjustment on large-capacity bikes is measured in terms of the number of clicks of a small knob or some such rotary control. Primarily a feature of gas-shocks, the clicks (or turns of a screw or the number of indents etc etc) help measure the increase or decrease of re-bound damping w.r.t a ref datum position.

              -Actually the pre load adjustment (the step adjustment in our dual shock bikes) is to determine the amount of hardness of the spring. Meaning how hard or easy it is to compress it. The harder it is, with the greater force will it push the wheel downward. Of course the smaller bumps will not budge the spring and will go directly to the rider. But mostly, high pre-load does increase road-holding.

              -It is very important to have equal preload in both the shockers in a dual shock bike as differing pre-load adversely affects the handling.

              CHECK OUT FOR MORE ON THIS. CLICK HERE.

              Dual shock v/s Mono shock setup

              -Mono shock better than dual as for lesser travel of the shock-absorber parts, one can get larger wheel travel. It also helps reduce the unsprung weight.

              -Due to the placement of the mono shock it lies in nearer to the Centre of Gravity of the bike helping in stability. Also being close to the Center of Rotation, assists controllability, esp in off-roaders and trail-bikes.

              -Due to the inherent production variations, as in any mass produced product, the tiny differences in the response between twin shocks at times makes for some variation of the handling in different bikes, even of the same make and model.

              This is the main reason why when you ride two same kind of bikes in the showroom you can feel the difference between how one handles compared to another..no two bikes are the same..even though they are from the same make,same year,same dealer..etc etc..

              Counter Steering

              -Counter steering is something we cannot turn a bike without, at any speed above say some 10 kph or so.


              We call it 'counter' steering because it goes contrary to what we would do naturally. Basically, it goes like this - if you want to turn left, you push forward on the left handlebar, as if trying to turn it towards right. This push towards right makes the bike lean to the left and the turn to the left follows.

              Rake and TrailHandling corners

              -Ideally the slow in fast out is the universal rule and is better to stick to this rule(unless you want to land in to hospital)

              -Late apexing is usually better from the standpoint of

              1) vision across the corner

              2) all the steering and turning is over before the bike enters the danger zone i.e. the exit lane with on-coming traffic

              3) the exit is straighter (compared to early apex where the rider is still leaned over and turning


              Genreal riding tips
              Sunny, Aryan & Ken: We missed you all.

              Maverick: What else would we do over 'that' cuppa o coffee at CCD? Talk motorcycling aye!

              c_sbk: nice pics there..the only thing I fail to understand..LP should have been a blur

              rx100.7050, saaki, sohail, manan, sunilg and all others who dropped in...lets do it again..another weekend.

              Ride long and safe...
              OF

              PS: I noticed some people coming in even after a couple of hours of the decided-upon meeting time (which was 8AM). For the next time, lets voluntarily fix a lateness limit (I suggest 30 mins). Those riding in later than that margin of 30 mins will do better by not coming at all and being there in time at the next G2G.

              (Of course there are exceptions....the ones like Aseem who rode in all the way from Sohna...through that wwoooooooooooooooooooooooowww... .. fog.
              I don't let my motorcycles interfere with my motorcycling...

              Join xBhp On

              Comment


              • #52
                Amazing pics..thank you chin2 bhai..
                A wing rider now....

                Comment


                • #53
                  thank you for understanding
                  Sir I will make sure I ll be on time in future...thank you again
                  Last edited by aseemb85; 12-23-2008, 09:27 AM. Reason: ..
                  A wing rider now....

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Old Fox View Post
                    c_sbk: nice pics there..the only thing I fail to understand..LP should have been a blur
                    .....

                    Where Do i come in from..... uuuaaannnn...


                    P.S.: EveryOne Bacch.Ke..!! This uncle is very naughty..
                    Last edited by L.P.; 12-23-2008, 04:07 PM.
                    " Nothing Z Forever,Except D Change "

                    Spiti ||Binsar || Lansdowne

                    Click Here to Subscribe to the xBhp Delhi SMS Channel
                    Click here to See my Photography Work

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      i think i really missed the important part of my biking theory and for another 5-6 sunday's I won't be able to attend(MBA entrances)....But seeing those whiteboard, marker...pen and papers I'm sure everyone has learnt a lot.
                      its all about CC...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rohitmundra View Post
                        i think i really missed the important part of my biking theory and for another 5-6 sunday's I won't be able to attend(MBA entrances)....But seeing those whiteboard, marker...pen and papers I'm sure everyone has learnt a lot.
                        OT
                        ----
                        hey bro i kept on looking at the white boards and stuff for a long time in my life but failed to learn a lot hehehe
                        |NO WHEELS|

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by desideep View Post
                          OT
                          ----
                          hey bro i kept on looking at the white boards and stuff for a long time in my life but failed to learn a lot hehehe
                          Coz all your life it was force fed to you.

                          With Old Fox, you do this out of your own free will. And hence you really learn.
                          The Wheel was a great invention; Two Wheels with a Motor in between was even better!


                          BMW Motorrad Days 2011

                          Xbhp's Indo-French Kashmir-Ladakh Tour

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by ken cool View Post
                            Coz all your life it was force fed to you.

                            With Old Fox, you do this out of your own free will. And hence you really learn.
                            Dada aap to serious ho gaye..

                            any ways i really wanted to go to the sessions but i missied them... but i am sure when DCS and me were talking about the first session. my bullet would have helped me fail each tast :P
                            |NO WHEELS|

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              that R15 pic looks very cool

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Puneet1 View Post
                                that R15 pic looks very cool
                                Thank you ....Indirectly you are praising me
                                A wing rider now....

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X