[What Bike]: Confusion between Thunderbird and Karizma - Page 3 - xBhp.com : The Global Indian Biking Community

ashwinprakas · 12-29-2011, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prajnyan

I feel, its better to replace mineral oil that costs 230rs 4 times than a FS that costs 900Rs.

But FS oils are good to keep engine wear and tear to minimum, they stick to the walls quick, better heat management, not too thick or too thin, etc. etc. But all this I feel is good for bikes that travel a lot and demand that immediate response should get SS/FS oils itself. Infact the R15 only uses 15w50 semisynt. We may use it on Karizma but the 10W30 oil with a changing interval of 1500km should be the optimal.

You dont get it bro, its not about the cost or drain interval.

SS/FS Oils have finer particles that help it to stick to the engine walls etc, but the problem is when we ride the bike at WOT, there's a higher chance the oil will seep through the gasket and result in oil leak. So its always better to use mineral.

SriramEfunds · 12-29-2011, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prajnyan

You are right! Indeed true that the most km done in bikes like platina, splendors all have run on mineral for upto a lakh km without rebore.

I feel, its better to replace mineral oil that costs 230rs 4 times than a FS that costs 900Rs.

But FS oils are good to keep engine wear and tear to minimum, they stick to the walls quick, better heat management, not too thick or too thin, etc. etc. But all this I feel is good for bikes that travel a lot and demand that immediate response should get SS/FS oils itself. Infact the R15 only uses 15w50 semisynt. We may use it on Karizma but the 10W30 oil with a changing interval of 1500km should be the optimal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

You dont get it bro, its not about the cost or drain interval.

SS/FS Oils have finer particles that help it to stick to the engine walls etc, but the problem is when we ride the bike at WOT, there's a higher chance the oil will seep through the gasket and result in oil leak. So its always better to use mineral.

Using mineral oil is no harm, however, for the newer engines it is recommended to use Mineral than of SS/FS. Once the engine is done with safe 6k-7k on the odo, one can switch to SS oil. I'm not taking expense into consideration but the performance. The advantage of using SS is that they coat the engine with film like protecting from extreme wear and tear. Mineral oil if used is best because, after 2-2.5 either SS or mineral would start showing colors. The drain period between SS and Mineral are not that huge when compared to FS oils. For long road trips, SS/FS oil is considered than Mineral. These come from personal experience.

Above_All · 12-29-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prajnyan

Although its helpful or nice to learn new things I dont need google to dictate which oil to use or how to maintain my bike! And fitting an HID voids warranty of bike and you are just meddling around. In fact why not fix an upgraded intake, and free flow exhaust, rear disk brakes, change the tyres, and everything else because it doesnt have good pickup like CBR250 too then??
Why dont you understand what I am trying to convey, i am not quarelling with you regarding what you can and cannot fix on your bike to make it better. That's your decision to alter your bike, not everybody. I am talking of stock setup here of what you get when you buy a bike.

Read my reply one more time i clearly mentioned that it depends on owners satisfaction & desire .

Quote:

Originally Posted by prajnyan

Now, you can ask any engineer or an expert in engines to agree that air cooled bikes need a break from continuous ride specially if you cover ghat sections. Screw here means overload or burden to the engine. Not spoil. Try to understand the meaning behind what is being said. You may be an expert in ur bike but everyone else would agree that a break in between would surely give your bike a needed respite.

Sorry as i have not seen your mentioning Karizma needs a break after covering 100 km in GHATS , & i thought about on roads . Break is good for both engine & a man , but after eack 100 km

BTW i don't found any GHAT of 100 km .

Quote:

Originally Posted by prajnyan

And I dont see how your argument is helping here in over the fact which infact I too agree to in the first place, its surely not helping the one who started the thread, I just laid out the drawbacks of Karizma and you are trying to proove that flaws can be mended but a flaw is a flaw.

I just corrected the wrong information about Karizma has AC Headlight & It need brake after 100 km ride ,
which gonna help the thread starter to understand Karizma has DC headlight & you can continue ride on after 100 km . Untill you think it's time for a brake .

Quote:

Originally Posted by prajnyan

Are you just trying to argue that air cooled bikes are better than oil cooled?

I readed my replies several time & found no where i mentioned such a thing & even i told i don't say about the other bikes pointed as i don't own them .

Quote:

Originally Posted by prajnyan

Thank you. I am not intrigued or interested in pulling this any further and surely dont think 3/4 hour is considered even a trip. Also it matters if you are riding in cold regions

I am clearly saying about contineous riding/driving not about trip . As i take brake for getting food or other things after 3/4 hours of contineous riding/driving .

prajnyan · 12-29-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SriramEfunds

Using mineral oil is no harm, however, for the newer engines it is recommended to use Mineral than of SS/FS. Once the engine is done with safe 6k-7k on the odo, one can switch to SS oil. I'm not taking expense into consideration but the performance. The advantage of using SS is that they coat the engine with film like protecting from extreme wear and tear. Mineral oil if used is best because, after 2-2.5 either SS or mineral would start showing colors. The drain period between SS and Mineral are not that huge when compared to FS oils. For long road trips, SS/FS oil is considered than Mineral. These come from personal experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

You dont get it bro, its not about the cost or drain interval.

SS/FS Oils have finer particles that help it to stick to the engine walls etc, but the problem is when we ride the bike at WOT, there's a higher chance the oil will seep through the gasket and result in oil leak. So its always better to use mineral.

I completely understand what you wanna say with ur bike the oil seeps through the gaskets. Which we can actually arrest by using sealants in and around the metal that gasket is installed. Check out for more details: Yamabond gasket sealant

You should also understand my view point, that SS/FS oils cost is equal to changing mineral several times and since it has a drain interval which may exceed several months if my daily commute was less than few km in which case we will have to change the oil much earlier than desired km since it reached a time limit.

Vishakh · 12-30-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prajnyan

I completely understand what you wanna say with ur bike the oil seeps through the gaskets. Which we can actually arrest by using sealants in and around the metal that gasket is installed. Check out for more details: Yamabond gasket sealant

You should also understand my view point, that SS/FS oils cost is equal to changing mineral several times and since it has a drain interval which may exceed several months if my daily commute was less than few km in which case we will have to change the oil much earlier than desired km since it reached a time limit.

First of all this is not about oils. This is about bikes. And please don't always try to find unwanted negativity when other users try to make their valuable inputs.

And regarding oil leaks Karizma is anyday better than RE bikes which start oil leaks at very early stage itself. It is because of the heavy vibrations.

Karizma is an all rounder. Regarding the road conditions in India this bike can satisfy in almost every aspect. For the price tag of 85k it is pretty reasonable. You can't expect 100% perfection in every side for that price. So users must make additional changes to the bike to suit their riding conditions. The thing you should consider is that the versatility of the bike. Only few simple mods are required. For long rides we should shift to 20w 40 oil so that the bike can run for longer time periods without any heating problems. But the bike can run on 10w 30 too. But since it is a higher cc bike the drain period is reduced. For city rides and peppy acceleration 10w 30 can be used.

The handling and suspension setup is unmatched to any bike priced in that range. But yeah it is not made for the track and not everyday you race in a track. It is designed to run on worst roads in India. And headlight its easy to plonk 55w headlights no other mods required just remove the 35w light and you only need to put the 60w light. Regarding tyres for the price of 85k they are offering a bike which has one of the best quality parts and a super smooth refined engine. Because in order to keep price in that range they have to stick to the ordinary tires. You can shift to tubeless if you insist about it.

My friend has a 220 it is a powerful bike but in day to day life its not power that only matters. Honestly I am not so happy about going to service center frequently. Each bike has its own pros and cons. From the query that user asked it is anyway better to take a karizma rather than thunderbird as far as usability is concerned. It can go fast, It can take curves enough, and it offers unmatched comfort. And a good seating position too. Even after buying a karizma enough money is left to get riding gears and a neat helmet

.

Jeevan25 · 12-30-2011, 05:16 PM

As we know, by 2014, Hero Honda agreement will come to an end. So what will be the scenario of hero honda vehicles. just think what happen to kinetic honda!! when . Is it will possible that parts will be easily available and same quality hero is going to maintain.

oilburner · 12-30-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeevan25

As we know, by 2014, Hero Honda agreement will come to an end. So what will be the scenario of hero honda vehicles. just think what happen to kinetic honda!! when . Is it will possible that parts will be easily available and same quality hero is going to maintain.

I feel Hero Moto will not go Kinetic way hero group have enough funds to buy firms for design and technology but if it happens it wont happen in one single year. As far as Karizma and TbTs is concerned i owned Zma -R for three years befor moving to australia And used it for my city commute , ride to job, freak out with friends and important long distant rides did chitkul, bharmaur, rohtang ,Dalhausie, Mcleodganj and in plains more than 500Km Up down, its extremely comfortable good pick up (a bit of laid back approach the way tourer should be)suspension is also well matched very good high speed ability on during cross winds a bit of shaky ness is felt , FE is also good with 32 to 42 Kmpl. Now What i do not like is plastics are of very poor quality and they are costly to change , wide rear tyre is needed i had Mrf meteor 110 , quality has worsened over the years specially valve seals , guides , need to be checked my bike started smoking during early morning starts in first 10000 km.Being in same profession HEro honda engineer was my friend so replaced whole cylinder kit under warranty. i dont know about Tbts much but according to ownership reports all over RE should look into quality. i heard a lot of niggles like sprag clutch faliure, speedometer not working , leakages, ....to be continued. i am in same situation for selectin a bike for my leh ride next year in aug and was confused between Tbts and Cbr 250 For now atleast Tbts is out of windowits cbr or any other yammi 250 launched before aug.

Jeevan25 · 01-02-2012, 02:12 PM

what is the FE in Karizma and Thunderbird??

Satyamzma · 01-04-2012, 12:49 PM

FE in Karizma is 35 and Thunderbird will be giving about 30 Kmph...

My unbiased reply - If you want to keep the bike for more then 5-6 years, go for Enfield.. They are Timeless Bikes..

If you want to enjoy Fast & Reliable Biking for 5-6 years Go for ZMA after that time i think you will get more powerful & reliable bikes compared to Zma from all the Bike makers(Including Hero)

Don't Go for P220 as new models are coming in 1-2 month

View Poll Results: Which Bike? Why you want to go for it? Post your comments in the thread.
RE Thunderbird	7	38.89%
HH Karizma R	11	61.11%
Voters: 18. This poll is closed

01-04-2012, 12:49 PM	#29 (permalink)
Satyamzma Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,828	FE in Karizma is 35 and Thunderbird will be giving about 30 Kmph... My unbiased reply - If you want to keep the bike for more then 5-6 years, go for Enfield.. They are Timeless Bikes.. If you want to enjoy Fast & Reliable Biking for 5-6 years Go for ZMA after that time i think you will get more powerful & reliable bikes compared to Zma from all the Bike makers(Including Hero) Don't Go for P220 as new models are coming in 1-2 month __________________ Don't Honk Unnecessarily Last edited by Satyamzma; 01-04-2012 at 12:52 PM.

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12-30-2011, 05:16 PM	#26 (permalink)
Jeevan25 Dream Tourer!! Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 47	As we know, by 2014, Hero Honda agreement will come to an end. So what will be the scenario of hero honda vehicles. just think what happen to kinetic honda!! when . Is it will possible that parts will be easily available and same quality hero is going to maintain.

01-02-2012, 02:12 PM	#28 (permalink)
Jeevan25 Dream Tourer!! Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 47	what is the FE in Karizma and Thunderbird??

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