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**MHG** · 10-17-2012, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Old Fox View Post

Thanks Prince and yes I'll be around more often.
The name is a bit unusual but then even worse cases that are much harder to pronounce have not really been detrimental to the brands' popularity. Cases in point being Goetze, Peugeot, Renault, Apache or even age old ones like Britannia and the present day Harvest Gold

for that matter.

Personally I doubt that being a problem atleast in Bangalore. Phoenix Mall is a place here everybody knows and is capable of pronouncing

A choice is a mix of subjective and objective elements. And only worth an investment in effort and time if it is to be made for real. A hypothetical situation like the one you present here may just be a single line question but a proper answer would warrant an exhaustive comparison which in any case is not the purpose of this tread. Call it evasion or prudence, the choice is yours

.

Skilful use of language there Sir! Your reply even in its current form is enough to remove my need to expect an answer to the actual question!

Anyhow, I did see the point you made there. And I confess, the Phoenix does have its own share of merits that when clubbed together justify its existence in its current form and price.

**Old Fox** · 10-17-2012, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by somen1984 View Post

125cc giving 50-55kmpl is less less !

Originally posted by bprags View Post

I dont think OldFox did a mileage check, he was just assuming it will deliver. I am sure he will clarify.

Yes, I did not do a proper mileage check. The 50-55 kmpl is an assumption and a judicious use of the throttle coupled with the ample low end torque should result in figures better than that. TVS states a mileage figure of something like 70 kmpl under standard conditions.

Originally posted by MHG View Post

Skilful use of language there Sir! Your reply even in its current form is enough to remove my need to expect an answer to the actual question!

You are a wise man

.

**sasen** · 10-17-2012, 07:02 PM

Well I can see that this bike ticks all the right boxes that a commuter is looking for. Personally In like it and definately this will be a very strong contender if I had to buy a 125 CC commuter. The discover 125 and particularly the ST is good product. However as Old Fox had rightly pointed out "A choice is a mix of subjective and objective elements", mine would be that I am actually not a fan of BAL products. The shelf life of their products are less and time between launching and dumping models are far to thin as we have experienced in the past. This has a impact on your mental state that you are riding an outdated model and adversely impacts resale.

Let's see how this one stacks up against Discover.

**Ash_win** · 10-18-2012, 05:27 PM

Cheers!

Another great vehicle from TVS for the "Aam aadmi" The Air filter, battery compartment is similar to that of a Star city, Star sport. Glad its got a digital console. All these will give a bit more fun to the daily boring commute. Hope this will be another great product from TVS like the victor,fiero..

**drmsp** · 10-22-2012, 01:05 AM

A great review there. I saw the photo of test tract first time, it is awesome. Actually a link of this review is given on official web site of phoenix, so one can see how great it is.
Hope that this good bike become great success for TVS (and mentality of indian people changes which is inclined towards the hero or honda in commuter segment).

**Mihir Gadre** · 10-22-2012, 05:30 PM

If I were to hazard a guess, I expect the sales to touch six and a half thousand units per month by end of this year.
Whatsay?

**harsh dts-fi** · 10-23-2012, 04:07 PM

very nice & perfect review lots more new features for a commuter i really likes the bike

**s_hari** · 10-27-2012, 06:02 PM

Video review of Phoenix by autocar india.
Link: TVS Phoenix video review | Video | Autocar India

Takeaways:
1) Nothing new or doesnt have any segment differentiator features compared to existing bikes
2) Whatever it does, it does in well and refined manner
3) Positive about becoming a successful product in future

OT : The video provides glimpses of TVS test track.

**RiNo** · 11-10-2012, 12:53 PM

very nice & perfect review , helps alot...

**harishkumarko** · 11-10-2012, 11:23 PM

Never expected an oversquare configuration from TVS!!First time in a 125cc 4T. The bike must be a good performer I guess. I feel at that killer price ,the ST's fate will be re-written....

**antz.bin** · 11-11-2012, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by harishkumarko View Post

Never expected an oversquare configuration from TVS!!First time in a 125cc 4T. The bike must be a good performer I guess. I feel at that killer price ,the ST's fate will be re-written....

Even I noticed it just now! But I did notice something very interesting. The bore x stroke configuration used by TVS Phoenix (57 x 48.8 mm) is exactly the same as the first gen. Bajaj Discover 125 DTSi back in 2004. So this has definitely not happened for the first time on an Indian 125cc 4T. Both of them make exactly the same amount of Torque (10.8Nm). Funnily enough, the 2004 Discover 125 DTSi made slightly (1 bhp) more peak power than the TVS Pheonix does now; at the exact same (8000) RPM.

Wasn't the Discover 125 the 125cc market leader when it was first launched? No wonder TVS were so convinced that a 4-speed gearbox was enough for the Phoenix. I wouldn't be surprised if they even kept the gear ratios exactly the same.

**harishkumarko** · 11-11-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by antz.bin View Post

Even I noticed it just now! But I did notice something very interesting. The bore x stroke configuration used by TVS Phoenix (57 x 48.8 mm) is exactly the same as the first gen. Bajaj Discover 125 DTSi back in 2004. So this has definitely not happened for the first time on an Indian 125cc 4T. Both of them make exactly the same amount of Torque (10.8Nm). Funnily enough, the 2004 Discover 125 DTSi made slightly (1 bhp) more peak power than the TVS Pheonix does now; at the exact same (8000) RPM.

Wasn't the Discover 125 the 125cc market leader when it was first launched? No wonder TVS were so convinced that a 4-speed gearbox was enough for the Phoenix. I wouldn't be surprised if they even kept the gear ratios exactly the same.

Oh...I never knew about the first gen Discover so much except for its power and torque figures. Did see a few reviews on the pheonix yesterday. The bike does 0-60 sprint in 6.5 secs which is decent I feel. Torque is all that is needed for city purpose, maybe that's why the power didn't seem like a major factor to TVS engineers. Hmmm why is TVS going behind bajaj? Don't they have suzuki to meddle with? Already they've got themselves into trouble once with bajaj!!Remember the Twin Spark Flam(e)ing story?

**chicane1879** · 11-12-2012, 11:22 PM

[QUOTE=antz.bin;891265Funnily enough, the 2004 Discover 125 DTSi made slightly (1 bhp) more peak power than the TVS Pheonix does now; at the exact same (8000) RPM.

[/QUOTE]

IIRC Discover 125 belted out 11 bhp of Power!!

**antz.bin** · 11-13-2012, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by chicane1879 View Post

IIRC Discover 125 belted out 11 bhp of Power!!

Actually it was 11.5 bhp on the 1st gen Discover 125. Phoenix makes 11 Ps (OR 10.8 bhp).

The 2nd gen Discover 125 also makes 11 Ps (same as Phoenix) but uses a different bore stroke while the 3rd gen Discover, which makes 13Ps also uses the same bore x stroke as 2nd gen.

**s_hari** · 11-20-2012, 03:49 PM

Another review from The Hindu.

When I first read about Fawkes the Phoenix, Albus Dumbledore’s animal companion (I refuse to call Fawkes a ‘pet’), I was fascinated by the mythical creature’s magical powers. It could mend injuries by shedding tears over the cuts, burst into flames and be born again from the ashes, give feathers of its tail to be made into magic wands.
But then for me, the best ‘feature’ of this creature was that it could carry immensely heavy loads over long distances when all other modes of transport failed. That, to me, is an awesome way to commute. Just grab the bird’s tail, flash, and you’re gone – no gridlocks, no honking, no refuelling, nothing. Ah, if only!
So getting back to commuting, or rather commuters, I got to check out TVS’s new 125cc ‘executive commuter’, the Phoenix. Much can be said about the name itself -Flame, the last 125cc commuter, well, er…flamed out. And I can’t help but be dramatic, by saying that the Phoenix has been born again from the ashes.
But, really, has it? Because the competition, the Honda Shine has the segment in its clutches. Does the Phoenix have anything magical about it to pose a threat to the likes of the Shine, Hero Ignitor (also Honda Stunner) and Bajaj Discover 125? To find out, I landed up at TVS’s Hosur factory on a rainy day to ride the hatchling, sorry, bike, on the company track. I wanted to ride the bike on city streets, though, for that’s where it actually belongs.
STYLING AND BUILD

At first glance, the red Phoenix that I rode looks like Hero MotoCorp’s Passion Pro, because of the graphics. The decals run all the way from the broad, bikini faring to the tail, which, in my opinion, is a slight overdose of stickering. A huge ‘125’ sticker plastered on the tank loudly announces the engine capacity.
But overall, the graphics add a certain sense of appeal to the bike, for without them the Phoenix would’ve looked a little skinny. The front fender comes in a dual-colour scheme (body colour and black) and has some decals on it too. The rear mud-guard, engine, chain-guard and the 17-inch, six-spoke alloy wheels, all come in matte black. The grab rail and parts of the side panels come in metallic grey.
The headlamp comes with twin LED pilot lights which add an Apache-like touch to the styling, and even the tail-lamp is quite big and noticeable. As a safety feature and a first in Indian bikes, TVS has added hazard lamps to the Phoenix. While this might be considered a good safety feature for riding in foggy and dark conditions, I don’t really see a good use of this in main city traffic unless the rider is in the logistics or delivery business where frequent stops along the road-sides have to be made. The hazard light switch is placed and looks just like an engine-kill switch and had me confused for some time.
Another Apache-like feature is the 240mm front petal disc on the disc brake version. The speedometer console is an amber-backlit all digital one, with a service reminder, digital odometer/tripmeter, low battery reminder and digital fuel gauge. The switches look quite premium for the segment, and have crisp responses to soft touches.
PERFORMANCE

The Phoenix runs on a single-cylinder, air-cooled, 124.5cc four-stroke engine, which TVS claims to be a new one. This motor churns out pretty decent numbers for its segment - 10.85bhp at 8000rpm, and a peak torque of 10.8Nm at 6000rpm. As this bike intended to be in the commuter segment, it has good low and mid range power delivery, but I found it to be lacking in muscle for longer, more open stretches of tarmac.
The carburetted ‘Ecothrust’ engine is married to a four-speed, all-up gearbox, which registers the gears quite smoothly. The clutch also feels very light and comfortable, and this might be very good for riding in heavy traffic for long periods. I am assuming that the slightly smallish 1265mm wheelbase would also be quite good to weave in and out of traffic.
Although I agree that ‘city-riding’ conditions require a bike to have a short gearing system like the Phoenix has, and should offer good low range power delivery, I also feel that the near-perfect commuter should turn out better numbers on highways too. In many metros and large cities, professionals live up to 20 kilometres (or more) away from their work places. Many of them use public or company transport to commute, but those who prefer to ride (the ‘executive commuters’) to work, often pass through toll roads and highways. On roads like these, one would really love to have a fifth cog and a bike that pushes beyond 80-85 kmph without any roughness setting in.
The Phoenix’s digital speedo went past 90 kmph only after I pushed it very, very hard (struggled would be the right word) on the track and the old TVS problem with vibration and roughness could be felt a bit after the 80kmph mark. As the bike has a lower kerb weight (114kg for drum and 116kg for disc), it doesn’t feel reassuringly steady on higher speeds.
TVS claims that the Phoenix can deliver 67 kilometres to the litre under standard riding conditions, which can be a good incentive to buy this executive commuter.
RIDING COMFORT

Cornering capability of the Phoenix is quite decent, with a good grip around the loops and curves on the track. Even when the track was quite wet, the Phoenix was quite sure-footed on the gradients and on a loop that would tempt any rider to lean deep into. The real test for this motorcycle would have been in city traffic, where cornering can be unpredictable.
Braking, too, was quite good. I got to ride the bike when the track was both wet and dry, and I was quite happy to see that rapid deceleration on straights and controlled braking around the curves were quite stable. Even when I locked up the rear 130mm drum brake on the wet straights, the rear didn’t step out, contrary to my expectations.
One thing that is new to this segment, and which TVS has incorporated on the Phoenix, is the inclusion of a ‘series spring’ on the 5-step adjustable rear hydraulic shocks. The ‘series springs’ are basically two springs of different number of coils and tension/extension ratings, for providing different types of compression of shocks on different terrains. Also, the Phoenix sports 90/90 tyres, which are on the wider side for the 125cc executive commuter segment and claim to offer more comfort on bad roads.
To test this, I rode the bike over an ‘urban simulation’ track with potholes, rough tarmac, bumps and breakers, and I can say the Phoenix passed the test. But then again, ‘urban simulation’ is not really the actual thing.
Overall, with a comfortable seat and improved upholstery, the Phoenix offers a very comfortable ride and I am guessing it wouldn’t be very tiring to ride this bike for up to an hour or two in heavy traffic.
BOTTOMLINE

Clearly, the Phoenix is a much better ride than the older Flame, with an engine that is not as rough and has a good ride quality. It is also packed with features that are not present on other bikes in its segment. But somehow, I don’t quite see it being an imminent threat to the Honda Shine or Bajaj’s Discover 125, for it still does not give enough reason or any compelling factor that would make it more appealing than the competitors. The mileage might be an inviting factor, but only to an extent. The Phoenix is offered in five dual-tone colours, in two variants. The ex-showroom (Chennai) price for the drum variant is Rs 51,000 and Rs 53,000 for the disc version.

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TVS Phoenix 125 Review: Price, Specs and colours

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