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**Aryan** · 11-20-2010, 11:35 AM

General Biking Discussion Approved.

**jawad_emt** · 11-20-2010, 12:16 PM

the braking trait of bikes differ in each type and make, what make is your bike?

as a general discussion, good braking depends on these things :-
condition of:-

tyre..
braking system..
type of road..

And the main thing is braking skill... this includes

prediction..
reaction time..
adequateness of brake applied..

you may see in which area you need improvement...

**Rony** · 11-20-2010, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Rony View Post

Had a freak accident today

I was going to TCS Borivali to meet my friend on her birthday. I picked up my other friend from JVLR junction and then started riding on Western Express Highway towards Borivali. Things were smooth until we hit the Kandivali Flyover. I was on the first lane and at the top there was a rickshaw lying half over divider and half on the first lane. It seems it was a fresh accident hence no barricades were put in. I was following a white Scorpio at 40-50kmph which was in turn behind a small car (i think old zen). The small car noticed the rickshaw too late and applied sudden brakes. The Scorpio guy it seems had noticed that auto before the small car in front of him (thanks to higher seating position) hence he was slowing down (arnd 30kmph) and so was I who was blindly following him. But the scorpio guy did not anticipate that the small car will stop so suddenly hence even he applied the brakes suddenly at around 30kmph. I had too little time to react, I applied both the brakes (front first followed by rear) and kept my handle straight instead of turning it and avoiding scorpio as there was too little distance left between us and I did not want to come under oncoming vehicles to my left (on the right there was divider hence no use turning there). Within 2 seconds of scorpio applying brakes, I bumped into its rear with around 20kmph head on. The front tyre took all the impact force tearing my mud guard and slightly bending my handle towards front. Also the headlight got a scratch. My head bumped on the rear window of the scorpio but the helmet saved me

. The best part was the bike did not fall and I kept it straight even after the impact. My legs were touching the ground and my friend had firmly hold on to back handle so even he did not fly off. We both were standing straight with the bike in middle and thanking god that we did not fall off which would have further aggravated the situation. I just got small scratch on the leg which brushed on the leg rest with much force. Everything else was ok. I checked my disc brake, front tyre and rim, things looked fine. Only the mud guard had to be teared off to avoid it making contact with the tyre. I took the bike further to borivali TCS and checked again waiting for my friend to come. The handle had slightly moved in forward position which I think can be pulled back by loosening the screws and applying some force. I will take the bike to SVC tomorrow and get the new mud guard fixed with other check ups done.

The moral of the story is, some times accidents are totally unavoidable, what matters is LUCK and some skills to handle such situations. If I had turned the handle and applied brakes, mostly the bike would have skid and we both could have hit ground and gone under the scorpio or worse under the moving cars on the second lane which were passing by oblivious to our accident since it was confined to first lane only. Also my helmet saved the head from banging on the rear window directly.

So Ride Safe Guys

My bike is bajaj XCD 135cc and its got front Disc brake and rear Drum brake. I was always told by my friends who ride bikes from ages that in such emergency situations applying both the brakes (front followed immediately by rear) helps in keeping the steed straight and preventing it from skidding. I hope my experience helps you.

**shelton_jh** · 11-20-2010, 12:52 PM

Hope you've heard about 'Engine braking' where you lower down gears to reduce the speed of the bike. This has changed the way I ride totally. Even i had similar experiences in the begining before i learnt this, when i was using only the brakes.
Before learning the art of Engine braking:
1. Confidence was low
2. Bike wasn't in my control when I braked
3. I was relatively slow beacuse i had to be sure that i can stop in time
I first learnt this art in a RX - 135 which is quite easy since it's a 2 stroke and it's so good when you do it on a 2 stroke but you can also do it on a 4 stroke machine but it isn't as easy doing it on a 2 stroke.

* Funda: When you lower the gear the bike naturally reduces the speed and remember this time there is no locking of wheels since power is getting delivered and at the same time speed is reduced to a considerable amount. While doing this you need to apply brakes slightly to assist braking rather than applying it hard. I know I'm telling you to do two things at the same time and it sounds very tough but if you get it right nothing like it.

Do's:
* 'Blip' (another art to be perfected after you learn this) the throtlle when you downshift
* Lower one gear at a time i.e. downshift to the next lower gear only after you've attained a suitable speed, a speed which that particular gear can take.
* Try using both the brakes simultaneously

Dont's:
* Don't downshift 2 gears in one go which would result in the tail swaying and you losing control
* Remember this works well only when you do both braking at the same time, if you just lower gears it isn't going to help
* Dont ever give throtlle when you are downshifting you know what will happen if you do so

I've been benefited by this a lot, my riding style changed, I got more confidence, once i learnt Blipping I got much smoother, I have avoided many accidents due to this and of course my normal speed increased

The main advantage of this which I found is that it is maneuverable at the time of braking which makes you more confident.

P.s. I know it is tough on the engine and gear box, you need not do this everytime and once you get the knack you'll be more smoother on the engine when you know at what speeds you can do it and all.

**AKSHAYNAYAR** · 11-20-2010, 01:20 PM

Ride safe

Hey glad that you asked this question and started this thread. I was thinking of starting this myself nut the saw yours first.
Safety is a key concern today especially with the kind of rate at which two wheelers are increasing in India. With manufacturers pouring in more and more powerful bikes and cars in the market it has almost become a nightmare driving on national highways in some metros of the country.
ffice

ffice" />>>
Well coming to the point, following are some recollections from the ride safe training I attended.
The three brakes>>
Front brake, Rear brake and ENGINE

Progressively applying the front brake with your index and middle fingers will result in effective braking giving you a good grip on the handle bar at the same time. The rear brake should be used in sync to minimize stopping distance. Remember to keep your fingers on the clutch lever but don't apply them while braking and losing speed>>

Well here comes the tricky part. Emergency braking. Emergencies often lead to panic braking, where the rider almost always slams the brakes really hard resulting in wheel lock and accident. The only remedy is practice progressive braking. Slam the brakes to the point of no wheel lock. This will come only by practice. Untill and unless you make conscious effort to learn this, and register it in your daily routine you will not be able to handle emergencies.>>
But like I said this is debatable point. Here are some excerpts. The views expressed underneath are entirely theirs and not mine !!>>
In an emergency do we concentrate on using staged braking on both front and back brakes?>>
This is a controversial subject. Some experienced riders reckon that, even in an emergency when research has shown that panic tends to decrease your riding skills, they can apply the back brake perfectly with no loss of braking on the front. >>
>>
Well, research has shown that the average rider can only properly concentrate on the use of one brake in an emergency so, unless you think you're road motorcycling's equivalent of a top motorcycle racer, we would suggest that you concentrate on getting the best out of one brake. >>
>>
Of the front and rear brake on a motorcycle, the one to concentrate on in an emergency is the front brake because if you get that one wrong, lock it up and don't correct that problem then you're going to crash.>>
>>
According to the American Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you try to get the best out of both brakes in an emergency, you will get the best out of neither. The MSF says you can't concentrate FULLY on both brakes at one time. You know your mother's old nag, "You can't concentrate on two things at one time"!>>
>>
So, to get the best braking, you have to concentrate using either the front or the back brake and, since the front brake gives up to 80% of your braking power and incorrect application is likely to make you fall off, it makes sense to concentrate on the front brake.>>
>>
The American Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches their instructors that "in an emergency braking situation you should apply the back brake hard and let the back wheel slide if it wants to. This way you can concentrate on what is happening up front; there's enough to think about in the use of the front brake.">>
>>
>>
You can find a lot more info on the net. Or perhaps you could also attend some training programme. There are different kinds of modules taught in training programmes, like narrow plank riding, slalom runs, bending and braking around corners, straight line braking, the four stage braking and lot more.>>
>>
Anyways hope this info was useful. Cheers!! >>
Ride Safe and Spread the Awareness.>>

**JonnyRider** · 11-20-2010, 02:16 PM

Safe braking in emergency situation

Thanks guys for your time & response...

to jawad_emt: sorry dude, i forgot to mention the bike...I have a P220 FI (3+years, 40K kms)

to Rony: I wish you a safe ride in future. Thank god, you & pillion were saved.

to shelton_jh: I'm practising gear shifts to reduce speed for about 5-6 months (since my last accident) ...but I guess, u r right...i am doing more than one down-shifts in case of emergencies...so still there's something to be corrected...tell me what's the "blip"

to AKSHAYNAYAR: u r The Man. Tht's a good post with info. Dude, I stay in Chennai. Do you know any place here to attend some training programme?

**madhav krishna** · 11-20-2010, 02:31 PM

For your front brake lock problem.

Saferide ABS

**sheelpriye** · 11-20-2010, 02:37 PM

This http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/art-safe...0-braking.html thread shall be of immense help to you.

Go through each posts & keep time in hand while going through it.

**AKSHAYNAYAR** · 11-20-2010, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by JonnyRider View Post

to AKSHAYNAYAR: u r The Man. Tht's a good post with info. Dude, I stay in Chennai. Do you know any place here to attend some training programme?

thanks man !!
well i stay in gurgaon and know about this place only. over here HH has riding school which is pretty good. the instructor is from singapore and they have various kinds of terrain practice as well.

other than that HH and HMSI individually organise ride safe programmes for customers (not necessarily theirs). you can get in touch with a regional HHML or HMSI office and ask about the tentative schedule. it happens in some part of the year and it is part of their CSR (corporate Social Responsibility)
now you might not gain much by these local level promotional programmes. but the idea is that you will get a knack of things and the rest is for you to practice. do watch some videos on youtube and read some stuff like the article on braking mentioned by sheelpriye

Ride Safe and Spread the Awareness

**JonnyRider** · 11-20-2010, 04:57 PM

Madhav: dude ABS is ofcourse there, but manual manoeuvring is what I'm looking for. I will check the review of that stuff, what you suggested and then see if I get someone to get that fixed. For now am sticking to good old man-machine-movement stuff

sheelpriye: thanks for the pointer. I'm doing tht now as long I get time before goin out on a city ride.

AKSHAYNAYAR: thanks bro. Ride safe.

--guys keep putting the bits n pieces of your gyaan, which can be useful for followers.

"Carpe Diem"

**tallkien** · 11-20-2010, 07:42 PM

Get used to grabbing the tank with your legs and practice squeezing the brake without putting any weight on the handlebars. It does wonders for your front end grip. I'm sure this is mentioned elsewhere but I'm putting it here again just to stress its usefulness and importance.

Also develop the habit of consciously practicing this everyday at least once. Its become my daily morning tyre/brake warm-up routine.

The only bad habbit that's come out of this for me is failing to check my RVM's at stop lights cause the thing stops so darn quickly

Needless to say, I'm working on that too...

Happy braking.

**JonnyRider** · 11-21-2010, 10:51 AM

talkien: that's an interesting piece of tip, u gave bro. I'm not sure if I have heard it anywhere else till now. But i'll definitely try that out, today...BTW, though it's clear from ur post, just out of silly curiosity, what is ur "...daily morning tyre/brake warm-up routine..."? It might help me, as well. Dnt mind the question if it sounds like an infant

**shelton_jh** · 11-21-2010, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by JonnyRider View Post

to shelton_jh: I'm practising gear shifts to reduce speed for about 5-6 months (since my last accident) ...but I guess, u r right...i am doing more than one down-shifts in case of emergencies...so still there's something to be corrected...tell me what's the "blip"

Blip: When you down shift, naturally the rpm raises and due to the sudden decrease in speed you are pushed forward and it isn't comfortable too. In order to avoid these all you have to do is at the time of shifting you need to open the throtlle a bit such that the resultant increase in rpm is compensated. For eg, if it raises from 5k to 7k when you downshift, at the time of shifting gear just 'pump' it to 7k so that you wont feel the shift.
Care to be taken here is, the time of opening the throtlle and the time taken to shif should match. Hope you get this point. This is quite tough to learn, getting the timing right is very difficult but when you get it your way of riding gets smooth. This is strictly after you get to terms of normal engine braking !

Anyways Ride Safe and till you learn all this always keep a safe distance which you are confortable and confident with.

**JonnyRider** · 11-22-2010, 04:37 PM

^kudos dude...in this thread, i learnt like what I've never learnt till now, about breaking...it's an art...thnx for the "Blip"

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