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Why Bikes are priced higher than cars (for the same CCs)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by princesirohi View Post
    thats the point, i was trying to make, if the sales increase, prices should come down, but manufacturers mostly don't do it that way and enjoy more profit.
    There's altogether a different for it; I can give a classic example of WagonR (or even Santro from 1998) when from 2000 to 2011. The car has undergone several changes (sry that I'm not picking up bikes as Our market is still maturing) & so is the price. Its not that manufacturers increase the price deliberately for a model. They increase as they keep adding value to existing product line.

    On the paint scheme, yes, I can understand. That's why I tagged economy. The commuter segment needs a powerful, high mileage yielding motocycle at lowest possible cost
    Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
    Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
    ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

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    • #17
      Wonderful answers.
      But Most of the answers are around Engine capabilities only. What about the other components?
      I'm sure that the Chassis of a car will cost more then a Bike. And add the other bits like overall Body, AC, Seats, Dashboard, Windshield, Tyres, Brakes etc. All this combines surely costs more then a motorcycle. And still the Huge price difference.
      And this is not only evident on premium bikes, but to more regular consumer oriented bikes as well.

      So, somehow I still feel that the Bike manufacturers keep the prices high only and only for their own profit and other factors don't play as big role as their lust for profit.

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      • #18
        Speaking out of our country & probably most of you know too - technology; here's an example of a 250cc single cylinder motorcycle that simply blows out the price of even a HD V-Rod. There's no car probably in 250CC, but the price of this motorcycle is much higher than most above standard cars & even SUV's.

        MSRP for the NSF250R has been established at $28,599.
        Honda NSF250R Coming to the U.S. - Motorcyclist Magazine
        Last edited by aargee; 08-04-2011, 07:48 PM.
        Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
        Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
        ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

        Comment


        • #19
          ^^ That is an out and out race bike. The price looks justified.
          Your biking tells a lot about the person you are!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by abhijeet080808 View Post
            ^^ That is an out and out race bike. The price looks justified.
            I know, I'm trying to answer one of the point on why a motorcycle of 250cc is priced higher than a car.
            Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
            Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
            ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by sherry_unicornlover View Post
              I'm sure that the Chassis of a car will cost more then a Bike. And add the other bits like overall Body, AC, Seats, Dashboard, Windshield, Tyres, Brakes etc. All this combines surely costs more then a motorcycle. And still the Huge price difference.
              ^ +1
              Originally posted by sherry_unicornlover View Post
              And this is not only evident on premium bikes, but to more regular consumer oriented bikes as well.
              Read somewhere that companies like Bajaj make profit of only about Rs.1000 per bike for mass market models like Platina, Discover 100,etc.,

              So, are models in highly competitive segment have minimal profit and the manufacturer makes hefty profit in a niche segment like >200cc?

              Originally posted by sherry_unicornlover View Post
              So, somehow I still feel that the Bike manufacturers keep the prices high only and only for their own profit and other factors don't play as big role as their lust for profit.
              Somebody here with work experience in a Bike mfg. company could answer this..
              Grip. Twist. Ride-with Menacingly FAST Apache 180 ABS!
              TVS Apache 180 ABS (Sep 2011-)
              Yamaha Libero LX (Feb 2006-Sep 2011) sold


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              • #22
                Originally posted by vineshp View Post
                So, are models in highly competitive segment have minimal profit and the manufacturer makes hefty profit in a niche segment like >200cc?
                Question for you - why're idlies priced Rs 25+tax a plate in Saravana Bhavan & Rs 21 a plate at Vasantha Bhavan & Rs 5 at Kaiyendhi bhavan, while the cost of making one idly should ideally be about Rs 1.50?
                Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
                ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

                Comment


                • #23
                  ^^ Hahaha ! ROFL ! Nicely put !
                  The only thing standing in your way, the ONLY thing you can count on, at any given time.. Is YOU

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                  • #24
                    Why is no1 acknowledging the fact that technology and research takes money and time. Dont you think a cbr250r has better technology than a nano. Taking factors like cc is not the point here brothers. And it is always true that you get bikes cheaper than a car of same calibre. Ex - Compare a hayabhusa to a ferrari. Compare Honda cbr250r to a suzuki swift. Compare a nano to bajaj chetak. The point is(pls dont argue) there are any factors which play a role in pricing and one of the major factors is research and development expenses and how they wanna cover it. Also we have economy, material, no. of sales, iconic character of product if any and i am sure there are plenty more.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by aargee View Post
                      Question for you - why're idlies priced Rs 25+tax a plate in Saravana Bhavan & Rs 21 a plate at Vasantha Bhavan & Rs 5 at Kaiyendhi bhavan, while the cost of making one idly should ideally be about Rs 1.50?
                      That's coz they cater to different clientele and also, the cost actually varies according to the recipe etc. So, the reason is 2 fold - demand & actual cost of manufacturing.

                      Originally posted by Angelic_Rider View Post
                      Why is no1 acknowledging the fact that technology and research takes money and time. Dont you think a cbr250r has better technology than a nano. Taking factors like cc is not the point here brothers. And it is always true that you get bikes cheaper than a car of same calibre. Ex - Compare a hayabhusa to a ferrari. Compare Honda cbr250r to a suzuki swift. Compare a nano to bajaj chetak. The point is(pls dont argue) there are any factors which play a role in pricing and one of the major factors is research and development expenses and how they wanna cover it. Also we have economy, material, no. of sales, iconic character of product if any and i am sure there are plenty more.
                      Can you elaborate a bit? In what way exactly does a single cylinder 250cc 2 wheeler has more tech compared to a multi cylinder 4 wheeler?
                      Your biking tells a lot about the person you are!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by abhijeet080808 View Post
                        That's coz they cater to different clientele and also, the cost actually varies according to the recipe etc. So, the reason is 2 fold - demand & actual cost of manufacturing
                        Exactly & the same answer applies here as well. Even when there's a huge discrepancy in bike prices (compare CBR vs NSF), forget alone the cars of the same cc segment.
                        Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                        Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
                        ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by abhijeet080808 View Post
                          That's coz they cater to different clientele and also, the cost actually varies according to the recipe etc. So, the reason is 2 fold - demand & actual cost of manufacturing.



                          Can you elaborate a bit? In what way exactly does a single cylinder 250cc 2 wheeler has more tech compared to a multi cylinder 4 wheeler?
                          First, Multi cylinder is more of a hyped statement. It has two-cylinder, 623 cc, MPFI engine which produces a power of 33PS. On the other hand, CBR250r has CS250RE, liquid-cooled 4-stroke DOHC single cylinder PGMFI engine which produces roughly 26PS. If you still dont get it a CBR250r can do 160kmph with two people and on the other hand a nano can do only 105kmph. And nano vibrates a lot do to its shady construction at high speeds.

                          Nano has front disc and rear drum brake system. Honda on the other hand has front and rear discs and has ABS which is a dream for nano owners.

                          If we talk about rear suspensions....Nano offers lame independent coil springs....Whereas CBR250 offers Rear Swing arm (Pro-link suspension system)....If u dont get it it smoother for pillon rider on a cbr than it is for a nano rear seated person.

                          Electrical Connections - We all have read in newspapers that atleast 5 or mre nanos have caught fire due to shady electrical system. How cheap is their wiring for short circuits to happen. Have you heard a single cbr250r incident as such.

                          Why debate on facts like its has 2 cylinders it has 1 cylinder....Thats so not technical at all....Thats like it has 2 apples it has 1...so two apples from kanyakumari are better but 1 apple from kashmir is not. Dont compare products on things like no. of cylinders, cc and other things like that....Look at the specifications and technology behind it....How refined it is and how much it might have taken to develop a product like that. Everything matters from finished products to the iron used to make steel and other things for it.

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                          • #28
                            First, Multi cylinder is more of a hyped statement. It has two-cylinder, 623 cc, MPFI engine which produces a power of 33PS. On the other hand, CBR250r has CS250RE, liquid-cooled 4-stroke DOHC single cylinder PGMFI engine which produces roughly 26PS. If you still dont get it a CBR250r can do 160kmph with two people and on the other hand a nano can do only 105kmph. And nano vibrates a lot do to its shady construction at high speeds.

                            Nano is restricted to do 105 kmph, it can achieve 125 kmph, but the ECU does not let it go above 105 kmph for interest of stability.

                            The construction is not shady, its built to a price. And independent crash tests by autocar U.K have confirmed it being more safer than a M800 or Alto in the event of a crash.


                            the vibration that you state, is rather resonance which results in a boomy cabin ( interior noise ), which has been addressed by Tata in April, and are currently working on a fix. I have driven the Nano for over 1400 kms, in a period of 28 hours or so, most of it between 80-90 and some stretches 90-100. No vibrations as such, Only that would be expected from such a vehicle.

                            Nano has front disc and rear drum brake system. Honda on the other hand has front and rear discs and has ABS which is a dream for nano owners.

                            Wrong, Nano has drum brakes on all 4 wheels. Sorry for making it more worse than what it already is!!


                            If we talk about rear suspensions....Nano offers lame independent coil springs....Whereas CBR250 offers Rear Swing arm (Pro-link suspension system)....If u dont get it it smoother for pillon rider on a cbr than it is for a nano rear seated person.

                            Name any other hatch/car below 3 lakhs which has independent rear suspension. Lol!

                            Electrical Connections - We all have read in newspapers that atleast 5 or mre nanos have caught fire due to shady electrical system. How cheap is their wiring for short circuits to happen. Have you heard a single cbr250r incident as such.

                            Uhh... someone's engine( CBR ) seized under 1500 kms, and was given a replacement. The wiring issue was due to vendor, not due to design. Same has been addressed.

                            Why debate on facts like its has 2 cylinders it has 1 cylinder....Thats so not technical at all....Thats like it has 2 apples it has 1...so two apples from kanyakumari are better but 1 apple from kashmir is not. Dont compare products on things like no. of cylinders, cc and other things like that....Look at the specifications and technology behind it....How refined it is and how much it might have taken to develop a product like that. Everything matters from finished products to the iron used to make steel and other things for it.


                            Much More than that, a lot of difference goes in the design. R&D and design eats a lot of the initial investments. IN designing a car, you have a lot of space to play with. Your components can be designed in separate manners.

                            For eg - The engine, gearbox, alternator, All are mounted separately in a Car. Makes it easier to design, and manufacture.

                            In a bike, all these components are within one integral part ( the engine ).

                            So packaging also comes at a price. Or you can be Bajaj and take one packaging and build on it and make other models on the same design. Or HH for that matter.

                            Cost of manufacturing one bike ( i remember 2005-2006 figures ) for HH was around 8000 rs for a Splendor, and 38,000 rs for a ZMA. When you take into factors like, plant cost, salaries, PFs, taxation, transportation, etc etc and what not, the price goes up.

                            Apologies for the rude reply, but ignorant and pre-decided notions as yours are what go against something that truly innovative. Dont appreciate it for what it is, rather than kill it for what its not.

                            Chassis design of a bike is its make or break factor. so much so, that the cradle type chassis of the Ninja felt inferior to the deltabox type chassis of the R15 ( my personal view ). In a car you have a basic monocoque design which can be refined keeping the CG, turning ability, handling etc in mind.

                            And finally as per supply and demand, one is a volume driven market, other is not. Margins tend to vary.


                            My offerings to the gods of speed -

                            - KTM Duke 200
                            - Yamaha RXZ 5 speed


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jd666 View Post
                              Much More than that, a lot of difference goes in the design. R&D and design eats a lot of the initial investments. IN designing a car, you have a lot of space to play with. Your components can be designed in separate manners.

                              For eg - The engine, gearbox, alternator, All are mounted separately in a Car. Makes it easier to design, and manufacture.

                              In a bike, all these components are within one integral part ( the engine ).

                              So packaging also comes at a price. Or you can be Bajaj and take one packaging and build on it and make other models on the same design. Or HH for that matter.

                              Cost of manufacturing one bike ( i remember 2005-2006 figures ) for HH was around 8000 rs for a Splendor, and 38,000 rs for a ZMA. When you take into factors like, plant cost, salaries, PFs, taxation, transportation, etc etc and what not, the price goes up.

                              Apologies for the rude reply, but ignorant and pre-decided notions as yours are what go against something that truly innovative. Dont appreciate it for what it is, rather than kill it for what its not.

                              Chassis design of a bike is its make or break factor. so much so, that the cradle type chassis of the Ninja felt inferior to the deltabox type chassis of the R15 ( my personal view ). In a car you have a basic monocoque design which can be refined keeping the CG, turning ability, handling etc in mind.

                              And finally as per supply and demand, one is a volume driven market, other is not. Margins tend to vary.
                              That makes sense. A car has more scope for parts which can be a plug and play design and can be used across different models. Whereas, for a bike, the whole engine and the ancillary parts are custom designed and produced for each specific model.

                              But then, for some parts like the brakes, headlights, suspensions etc, a bike will have half the number of parts a car has. Doesn't this offset the earlier point?

                              And on the demand a supply equation, that is a valid point.
                              Your biking tells a lot about the person you are!

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                              • #30
                                ^^ Yes, but for every bike designed parts will be made specific to it. Unless its a platform sharing model like the Pulsar, wherein 50% of the parts are common to the 150, 180, 200 and 220.

                                Everything has to be made compacter and lighter.

                                For eg. The R15 is a dedicated package, not a platform. The chassis is something around 11k, and the engine as a whole is 40% of the price of the bike ( before it was made in india, now the engine is cheaper, but its improved the margins for the company as well ).

                                A bike engine revving to 10,000 rpm, has to be equally reliable as a car engine revving to 6000 rpm. And has to be able to do it all day.

                                By depreciating quality of parts for a lower revving engine is not that you are using inferior products, you are simply using a quality level which is sufficient for that engine. ( lower revving ). A more stressed engine will require higher quality of parts.

                                If you look into the detail of the nano, a lot of cost cutting has been done in various aspects of the design. Some of which are pretty innovative and work quite well.

                                Heres my insight when it was launched -

                                Tata Nano Review and Test Drive


                                Even if Honda was to indianize all parts, the pricing would be the same, margins would be better for the company.

                                Comparable bikes of 600cc and 1000cc ( to cars ), are equally priced, its the taxation in india that creates the discrepancy ( As already pointed out earlier in this thread ).


                                My offerings to the gods of speed -

                                - KTM Duke 200
                                - Yamaha RXZ 5 speed


                                Comment

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