Possible provided enough voltage and current generation can be done....Here is a 3 phase Regulator Rectifier circuit if you are interested in building...the rectifier diodes(D1 to D6) and SCRs (T1 to T3)must be on a heatsink...Use Plastic power Rectifier diodes for ease of mounting .

Well, i personally feel that the DC feeded TCI/CDI units of full DC motorcycles DO NOT RUN only from the battery, it would tapp the current from the coil and the regulator that provides this current to the battery provides it to the ignition coil too, as thus these bikes can run without the battery.

I tried to do the same thing, and However it was PSR who planted this idea in my head () but due to lack of communication it was never discussed and i did what i learnt from a single post.
Was too busy and falling short of time to carry out a discussion, maybe i understood it in a wrong way, but i would request PSR to discuss it in the right way here though...

Well, as i have never been in an electrical background so i am finding it difficult to understand, but i guess this is what i was asking for all the while.
I'll try to show it to a friend of mine and ask for his feedback (as he's a master in electricals) before commenting on the same.
Thanks a lot PSR.

We all owe you a lot for the knowledge and information that you have provided until now...
Thanks would be a very small word...

Saw this thread just now. Looks lke nothing much is left to explain.

Just one thing - the self check sequence on the console at start up is just a gimmick! Nothing much happens.. remove that console from the bike and give at 12V power, it will do pretty much the same thing.

Also, Pulsars do have a BCU in between the switches and the bulbs/horns etc.

Hey Nano, thanks for the details of your experience.I appreciate your efforts in experimenting and creating standards rather than following the standards set by someone.

Well this is basically just a schematic block diagram rather than being a circuit/wiring diagram.You know its basically like one of the text book types.So don't bother much about the color or number of wires connected to any particular component.

Here s what i gather from your posts

1. Regarding the Engine kill switch,the sole purpose is to cut off ignition,So i don't think the spark plug will run with the EK switch open.And from the diagram what PSR has posted i think EK is in line with the TCI/CDI and ignition switch will come before the common connector from the battery.

2. As per your statement if ther is only one power input line to the TCI i.e the regulated AC line form the Alternator,then what about the case when starting the bike.The alternator does not hold any charge and merely generates it.So how will it feed the TCI when starting the bike.

@psr : According to what you have mentioned in your previous post can you please clarify how does the supply switch over from the Alt+RR in low battery conditions.

3. A lighting coil is a static coil with dedicated poles for charging the battery and also providing power to the HL circuit.So are these poles dedicated for the said purpose or when the HL is off the ALT+RR is completely utilised for charging ?

@PSR

Ji you ve just put my efforts to shame with that super simplified circuit .Very nice and that 3 phase one completely went over my head.

@ Sajjt

Thanks for pitching in.

So what about all the bikes on full DC,how does the battery cope up with the load ? How do they manitain the generation and load consumption balance.

Why is regulated DC signal better than regulated and rectified AC. Are there any power losses in the rectifier circuit.?

@Abhijeet

Thanks for replying,well as explained by psr,the self is a mere reset and self calibration of all the digital equipment.All the instruments going up at once does look like one fancy gimmick for us.

And what s a BCU.

@ Everyone

Please dont write this thread off although there s not much left to explain let us put in place what is the existing setup of various bikes.

How does the tacho sensor work? Is it like one of those sensors like the pulser coil (reed switch?) or is it a digital sensor.

Can someone explain apart from these components what are the ones that change in an FI circuit.

Without an ECU for the desi carburetted bikes,how is the engine desgined to follow a particular speed,torque curve ?


Godspeed
Revverend

replies in bold.
@Abhijeet, and @Sajit..sorry for posting replies to queries addressed to you both..thought i can post my view, and I welcome your posts ..

I am afraid, there is no actual calibration happening here in the speedo!

It is just that at the time of startup, the needles are programmed to dance a bit.

Ofcourse, in a FI bike, the fuel pump primes at startup. The needle dancing bit distracts the user and gives the pump sufficient time to prime.

The CDI/AMI/TCI unit in a carb bike can be a digital device too. It has ignition maps which generally define the relation between the 3 parameters - engine speed (input from pulsar coil), engine load (input from throttle body reed switch) and spark advance. Note that - unlike in a ECU, fuel control is left to the carb.

@PSR - You certainly dont need to apologize to anyone for sharing your knowledge!

1. Oh well so the EK switch is normally open when the engine is ON and grounds the charge from the TCI when closed. But nano says the spark plug ignites even when the EK switch is closed (OFF).How s that possible.

2.Ah right !! Permanent magnet synchronous generator ? Well honestly i ve studied all about these during my engg and each and every term here sounds very familiar right from the alternator to the SCR s and IGBT s. Damn i should ve paid more attention.

So theoretically the alternator should be able to start the combustion when the bike is pushed and subsequently the crank turns and triggers the generator.This should happen with any bike regardless of AC/DC or full DC setup ?

3. Well this is one example of me complicating simple things as you have stated. Two power sources connected to a load and the load will be fed from the one with a higher potential.

4. So the energy produced at the alternator stator is wasted at the RR which acts as a mere resistance when the HL is off. Can this wattage be tapped somewhere else ?

5. I totally understand the three phase concept here.So ZMA/ZMR has a 3 phase circuit ?? Impressive.

6.Well so in a full DC setup the battery is merely for sustaining the loads rather than supplying them.The alternator seems to be the quintessential component.

How is the load balance achieved ? During design are the full DC bikes designed for battery running all the components and the alternator supporting them or vice versa.I am guessing its the latter.

7. Body control unit ? sounds like a total fancy term. Is it just there for creating a USP for bajaj bikes or does it really serve a purpose.?

8. I was expecting another reed switch attached to the crank for feeding the tacho.

Thanks a lot psr and no harm in replying to all my posts.In fact it was the queries were addressed to everyone.

I am waiting for the FI circuit.

Fuel injection...simple

The Pictures are self explanatory...

BCU is the little rectangular box with a butt-load of wires sitting below the digital speedometer console on a pulsar. This unit is present on all the digital console equipped pulsars except the P135.

The BCU is actually very intelligent in nature. It is basically a pack of relays and a logic circuit.

The BCU is not just a gimmick.

The BCU equipped pulsars have contact-free switches, meaning they don't have contact points in them to make or break the circuit. They are magnetically operated and they just send signals to the BCU. The contact free switches don't require any kind of protection from the rain. As there are no contact points nothing gets corroded or rusted and that is a very nice feature included on the pulsars.

The BCU is responsible for the following things on my P180UG3:
1. Running the starter
2. Killing the engine
3. Turning the headlights ON or OFF
4. Sounding the horn
5. Running and blinking the turn indicators and also shutting them down after the turn is completed [self-cancelled by a signal sent by a sensor mounted on the steering T] There is no flasher relay on the BCU enabled pulsars.
6. Switching between High and Low beams
7. Activating the Pass.
8. This is the most important of all: Disabling the starter after the engine cranks. This is done by the BCU itself. Once the engine starts running, a voltage is produced at the headlight wire. When the BCU senses this it immediately cuts off the starter switch. So when the engine is running, the starter cannot accidentally run.
9. Switching to the other beam if one of the filaments of the headlight bulbs conks off.

The 8th point is the one causing problems in all the UG3 pulsars and the P200 who have gone for Full DC. But it has a simple fix too. That fix has been discussed in detail by Rahuldevnath.

Since the P180UG3 has a CDI ignition, it runs without the battery and without the RR too! I know this for sure and Nano has seen it!

IMO the self test is a pure gimmick. As abhi pointed out, it just distracts the rider from cranking the engine for a while and this time is needed by the fuel pump to prime. I have been cranking the engine before the POST completes right from the beginning and since my bike is carburetted, its all fine

The pulsar has a separate coil to generate the AC 200 volts which is then full wave rectified and stored in a capacitor to discharge as per pulse from pulse coil on the stator.Hence is not dependent on DC circuit for Ignition.But RR and battery exists for supply to other components like console, indicators, horns,BCU etc.
A fuel Injected engine is totally dependent on Battery and DC circuit.

Yes once a friend's R15 stopped on the road because of the excessive electrical load of 2HIDs causing the battery going flat. Also many people have observed a reduced top end when running HIDs as the fuel pump spins slower due to lack of sufficient current.

PSR sir yes I had seen the yellow ignition pole when I was getting the stator re-wound

I saw the yellow Ignition coil in your post when you were upgrading the coil...So my thanks to you for the knowledge sharing..
If the R15 stator is unable to supply the DC requirement of the bike then an upgrading with thicker wire for more current, like you had done, will solve the problem...Many times in my ZMA I had run the bike in night with headlight,indicator etc., WITHOUT BATTERY, without any issue(just to understand the stator capability,and if bike is dependent on battery, and if so how far).....I did notice the RR getting very hot, so i took a large size 16 gauge aluminum plate and bent it in half, and mounted the plate behind the RR as a heat sink for safety... I do have a 9 AH Amron

@ Revverend

I think you misunderstood my comments, or maybe i haven't been able to explain it in a right way.
Let me try and do that again.

1.
True, the purpose is to cut off the supply.
But what i mentioned was that this switch doesn't route the current to the ignition coil through the kill switch, so that if the switch is open the current won't pass, i mentioned that if you do not have switches connected at all, and just have the ignition coil connected with the main wiring and ignition key switched on, the bike will fire, irrelevant of the switch, the interaction of the switch is to do with the TCI letting it know when to cut it off or not.

2.
Incorrect, i never said that there's a regulated AC line going the coil to the TCI, all i said was that there's just 1 line which supply the regulated current to the TCI (maybe i forgot to mention that this is DC current), now if your battery is NOT CONNECTED AT ALL this tci will still fire, but if your coil isn't connected, you'll have to manually route this input wire to the battery, even though its a DC line it works on the DC generated inside the regulator rather than tapping things directly from the battery, we can conclude this by the statement that when the battery is connected and the stock regulator isn't connected, we need to route this manually to the battery.
Having done that, i say all this.

3.
1 and 2 maybe clears it out this time....

BUMP!


This was a nice discussion until everyone fell asleep

Knock Knock....The thread starter disappeared and only we are into it. Most of us here,are aware of the Circuitry at work and only the queries bring us here for a healthy sharing of our knowledge.