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  • #46
    Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
    @Kishor, for a change, even I didn't understand a word .
    ha ha good, look at the state of a dull headed like me

    Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
    This experience has left an indelible mark on my mind and has made me completely biased against REs and needless to say, I never had any more courage left to trust an RE over the P220 for any more rides *out of city*.
    Thats a wrong perception, probably you had a bad experience with a badly maintained bike

    You can trust these bikes, probably not like the other bikes though

    you take care of your RE's and it would take care of you
    Never Give up on something that you can't go a day without thinking about.

    Cheers
    Ramesh Madhavan

    Comment

    • #47
      great thread with so much mutual sharing of knowledge...feels like a fresh breath of air....since Diesel Locos are one of my interest and had been quoted in one of the post I would like to share what little I know....
      The diesel engine in any Locomotive does not drive the Locomotive directly,but spins an AC three phase generator which is then rectified to DC and used to drive the Motors in Powered Axels(4).In recent development the AC generated is used directly to turn the AC motors through GTRs(Gate turn off Thyristor) or IGBTs(Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor).
      The same engine with different final gear ratio between motor and Axle decides if it will be a Goods pulling Locomotive(WDM,WDG) or Passenger one (WDM,WDP)...The WDM is a mixed grade used for both purpose...
      WDM develops 3,300 HP and WDG and WDP develops 4,000 HP.I shared the Info because most of us travel a lot in train and a bit of knowledge on Loco would inspire some of us to explore more..like it did to me.

      Mods if this post is not required kindly remove it.
      Last edited by psr; 05-22-2012, 05:42 PM.
      When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

      Comment

      • #48
        Highly OT

        Originally posted by psr View Post
        great thread with so much mutual sharing of knowledge...feels like a fresh breath of air....since Diesel Locos are one of my interest and had been quoted in one of the post I would like to share what little I know....
        The diesel engine in any Locomotive does not drive the Locomotive directly,but spins an AC three phase generator which is then rectified to DC and used to drive the Motors in Powered Axels(4).In recent development the AC generated is used directly to turn the AC motors through GTRs(Gate turn off Thyristor) or IGBTs(Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor).
        The same engine with different final gear ratio between motor and Axle decides if it will be a Goods pulling Locomotive(WDM,WDG) or Passenger one (WDM,WDP)...The WDM is a mixed grade used for both purpose...
        WDM develops 3,300 HP and WDG and WDP develops 4,000 HP.I shared the Info because most of us travel a lot in train and a bit of knowledge on Loco would inspire some of us to explore more..like it did to me.

        Mods if this post is not required kindly remove it.
        i would like to add one more point to this topic and couldnt understand the following-The loco designed to pull goods wagons,have the drive transmitted to only one side of the drive axle,wheras for the passenger trains,the drive is provided on alternate sides.I got a chance to see the electric locos in person thanks to my cousin brother who is an engineer at the loco shed.Got to see the locos in an out and i must say its one helluva of a machinery.

        PS-he too couldnt answer the above mentioned drive concept
        Last edited by velociraptor13; 05-22-2012, 05:59 PM.
        Socha Toh Locha.

        Comment

        • #49
          Originally posted by velociraptor13 View Post
          i would like to add one more point to this topic and couldnt understand the following-The loco designed to pull goods wagons,have the drive transmitted to only one side of the drive axle,wheras for the passenger trains,the drive is provided on alternate sides.I got a chance to see the electric locos in person thanks to my cousin brother who is an engineer at the loco shed.Got to see the locos in an out and i must say its one helluva of a machinery.

          PS-he too couldnt answer the above mentioned drive concept
          The Electric Locomotive in suburban is different from the one running on main line...the main line ones are tagged as WAP, and are either arranged as BO-BO or CO-CO or BO-BO-BO..for an explanation see the contents of link..
          [IRFCA] Indian Railways FAQ: Locomotives - General Information - II
          When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

          Comment

          • #50
            Originally posted by psr View Post
            The Electric Locomotive in suburban is different from the one running on main line...the main line ones are tagged as WAP, and are either arranged as BO-BO or CO-CO or BO-BO-BO..for an explanation see the contents of link..
            [IRFCA] Indian Railways FAQ: Locomotives - General Information - II
            MAN!! Am always very fascinated with big locomotives, trucks etc. You are the man to turn to. Wish, you were in Delhi & near my place
            "HASTA LA VICTORIA, SIEMPRE !" - Chesigpic


            http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/18983-spicy-sour-sweet-short-honeymoon-trip.html

            http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/20306-pursuit-swarghat.html#post716409

            http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/2...sary-trip.html

            http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/2...adventure.html

            http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/tourer/2...j-monsoon.html

            Comment

            • #51
              Originally posted by rx100.7050 View Post
              MAN!! Am always very fascinated with big locomotives, trucks etc. You are the man to turn to. Wish, you were in Delhi & near my place
              Go through what Diesel Locomotive Works in Varanasi and Patiala does.....Makes me very proud to be Indian..they have converted the WDM2 engine initially producing 2,000 HP to produe 3,300HP, indegenised engine,High capacity generator,brought in Microprocessor controller in place of mechanical relay control, Invented Efficient Motor control circuit using IGBT in WDP4 , extendending mandatory Diesel LOco strip down service from 1,000 Kms to 5,000 Kms....list goes on...
              [IRFCA] Indian Railways FAQ: Locomotives -- Specific classes : AC Electric

              Welcome to DLW Official Website
              When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

              Comment

              • #52
                One awesome thread.. A must for the Bookmark..
                Am sure, many like me are reading each posts over n over.. Built courage & posted here
                Thank you all for such a 'quality' discussion.. Each post is worth the read..
                Am yet to read once again..


                Blog : Mumbai - Leh - Mumbai : 21 Days, 6500kms. Journey to Heaven..June'09
                GreatIndianRide - West India on a 110cc for over a month
                Mumbai-Leh-Mumbai - A Sequel : July'11 (Blog coming soon)

                Comment

                • #53
                  Originally posted by rameshmadhavan View Post
                  Hi Guys...thanks for the info, but still for a dull headed like me, dont understand all the technical terms

                  fine, let me see if i can read through again to understand better

                  No sir, If at all it is probably my mistake in failing to explain the things properly. But i've noticed that one needs 'age' and experience to bridge this gap in quality of the communicator. I am still a Pup so please excuse my infant writing style.

                  Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
                  @Kishor, for a change, even I didn't understand a word . ( day by day i feel like i am pulled from this earth into space. Some day i will be an alien and will be speaking in klingon or something.)

                  @Ramesh Madhavan: From what I understand, the Lightning has a 4 speed 'box so I guess the tall 5th gear is something that is missing. From what I am told, all CI engines revved even lower than what the UCEs do, with a missing tall/overdrive ratio, the engine is bound to stress more as the speeds climb. +1 CI 350s had some 12hp at the wheels, so imagine the torque for the CI 500 and yea 4 gears equals two gears for accelerating, so the uce has better access to the powerband. But then the bike he brought into the equation is a 535, are we to understand that the only difference is just in the size of the bore? and no other parts have been changed, like for example a new straight cut gears, different wheels., etc?

                  I am sorry I couldn't fish out the other specs from google but from my experience till now, I think it will answer your query without even getting into engine internals by just looking at the specs. We can answer better if we at least get peak torque / power RPMs and gear ratios. +1 that would be an easier and better exercise but i was so hoping to get to see the internals of a non stock CI 500 As far as I have seen, you can always predict behavior by just looking at the numbers.

                  3. Had no idea about its FE so had to abandon my ride midway and return, the FE of the bike turned out to be ~25-26kmpl even though I was sticking between 80-90kmph. <- CI350 you were keeping at this speed constant , I can hear the swear words spewing from the mouth of a bull(s) owner in my society.

                  This experience has left an indelible mark on my mind and has made me completely biased against REs and needless to say, I never had any more courage left to trust an RE over the P220 for any more rides *out of city*.
                  ^directs you to the "Respect the Bull 101"

                  Originally posted by psr View Post
                  The diesel engine in any Locomotive does not drive the Locomotive directly,but spins an AC three phase generator which is then rectified to DC and used to drive the Motors in Powered Axels(4).In recent development the AC generated is used directly to turn the AC motors through GTRs(Gate turn off Thyristor) or IGBTs(Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor).
                  The same engine with different final gear ratio between motor and Axle decides if it will be a Goods pulling Locomotive(WDM,WDG) or Passenger one (WDM,WDP)...The WDM is a mixed grade used for both purpose...
                  WDM develops 3,300 HP and WDG and WDP develops 4,000 HP.I shared the Info because most of us travel a lot in train and a bit of knowledge on Loco would inspire some of us to explore more..like it did to me.

                  Mods if this post is not required kindly remove it.
                  Psr sir, locomotives are mesmerising for me, those are some industrial grade work being done those diesels. I do not know if there is a section for this, but if there is could you please post a 'a brief intro to locomotives' thread? it will be great to see people like you and Rakesh (velociraptor) sir discussing metal in details

                  Originally posted by velociraptor13 View Post
                  Why are you comparing the CI and UCE,do a comparo between the ol gen(read of the 60s or 70s) CI and the CI of the last lot,theres a world of difference.
                  Now thats a really interesting experiment to be done

                  I can see multiple aims for the experiment: To Find 1) causes of vibs in the new CI and old CI, 2) how they have been affected by the age and usage 3)how manufacturing processes of the times has had an effect on the engine? (performance wise, ride ability wise, maintenance wise, soul wise for the purists, etc)
                  Last edited by Saerius; 05-22-2012, 08:35 PM.
                  When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    Guys

                    Looks like this is the best thread, but possibly we have taken it off the topic, the thread starter had asked a different question and we have started to something else

                    @Mods - Check if we can change the topic if the TS has no issues

                    @ all - I have ridden a 72CI bike which is well maintained and never crossed the speed limit of 70, i would say it never had any sort of vibrations and also have ridden my 535 again a CI, which is well maintained from the interiors & exteriors, not a single bolt would be loose or you cannot make out an other noise apart from the routine RE sound of engine. Evn if i go at the same average & same road i can see vibration. Have also used a LB 500 - This also has a simillar vibration
                    New classic 500 - starts vibrating @ > 80s level

                    Is it something to do with the Crank weight, built quality etc

                    Speeds again - The 72s sort of struggled to reach out beyond 70, but my 535 has not struggled and have at times touched 120 on it with all vibrations, on CL 500 i have touched 130+

                    Dont ask me the technicalities which I fail to understand
                    Never Give up on something that you can't go a day without thinking about.

                    Cheers
                    Ramesh Madhavan

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      Originally posted by rameshmadhavan View Post
                      Guys

                      Looks like this is the best thread, but possibly we have taken it off the topic, the thread starter had asked a different question and we have started to something else
                      I guess if he reads from page 1 to 4, all his questions have already been satisfactorily answered. The only thing that is remaining is to connect the dots. We are just continuing the discussion on a topic he started.

                      Originally posted by rameshmadhavan View Post
                      @Mods - Check if we can change the topic if the TS has no issues
                      Please Elaborate (on PM)
                      Last edited by antz.bin; 05-23-2012, 01:09 PM.
                      Advice is a form of nostalgia.
                      Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

                      Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        If members are interested with steam/diesel/electric Locomotives please PM me,and based on interest a separate thread can be started...and not discussed here as it is hijacking this thread.
                        When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          Originally posted by rameshmadhavan View Post
                          Guys
                          Is it something to do with the Crank weight, built quality etc
                          Bang on,you have hit the right spot.If anyone has noticed,though the UCE has hydraulic actuated tappets,they are way noisier than the CI counterpart,the underlying reason-Aluminium doesent damp sound as good as CI.CI density ranges from 6800 to 7800 kg/u-m wheras aluminium has a density of 2560 to 2640 kg/cu-m.Further to understand one has to goto the microstructure level.But again Aluminium can dissipate heat much faster,but the thermal efficiency of CI is much better than the AL.The other hidden truth is CI has a "magical"element called as graphite which obvoiusly we know acts as a lubricant.I guess the "weight factor" came into picture that forced the manufacturers to shift to Aluminium.
                          Another 10 cents from a novice
                          Last edited by velociraptor13; 05-23-2012, 02:59 PM.
                          Socha Toh Locha.

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            Originally posted by rameshmadhavan View Post
                            Guys
                            I have ridden a 72CI bike which is well maintained and never crossed the speed limit of 70, i would say it never had any sort of vibrations and also have ridden my 535 again a CI, which is well maintained from the interiors & exteriors, not a single bolt would be loose or you cannot make out an other noise apart from the routine RE sound of engine. Evn if i go at the same average & same road i can see vibration. Have also used a LB 500 - This also has a simillar vibration
                            New classic 500 - starts vibrating @ > 80s level

                            Is it something to do with the Crank weight, built quality etc

                            Speeds again - The 72s sort of struggled to reach out beyond 70, but my 535 has not struggled and have at times touched 120 on it with all vibrations, on CL 500 i have touched 130+

                            *ignoring final statement*
                            So the 72's CI doesnt have any kind of vibs on it, any idea what rpm the engine is at @70kmph? i know the bike doesnt have a tach but you might have done a rough estimate..?

                            and the CI535 has the stock gearbox? same as the 72's one?
                            When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Saerius View Post
                              So the 72's CI doesnt have any kind of vibs on it, any idea what rpm the engine is at @70kmph? i know the bike doesnt have a tach but you might have done a rough estimate..?

                              and the CI535 has the stock gearbox? same as the 72's one?
                              Possibly around 3000
                              Ys CI535 has the stock gearbox & same as 72
                              Never Give up on something that you can't go a day without thinking about.

                              Cheers
                              Ramesh Madhavan

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rameshmadhavan View Post
                                Possibly around 3000
                                Ys CI535 has the stock gearbox & same as 72
                                uhm 'what all' is non standard on the 535 then?
                                When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car

                                Comment

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