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Changing Gears

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  • #31
    i blip while downshifting ,except when i have to stop Hard. and while entering sharp corners, especially with a nice handling bike and a nice crouched posture, those blips only add to the seriousness- they widen the grin on your face as you exit the bend.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ajslave View Post
      they widen the grin on your face as you exit the bend.
      cant agree anymore !!! [] !!! ^_^
      An Engine has valves, your heart has valves. Case closed. My Facebook

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      • #33
        How to shift down gears using throttle blip / rev-match technique ?

        Hello everyone

        I was going through some trackday videos and I heard the guy talking about using the throttle blip/rev-match technique to smoothly shift down gears without the rpms going too up resulting in a jerk/lockup .

        Can anyone tell me its steps ? How to use it ?
        READY TO RACE >>

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        • #34
          Re: How to shift down gears using throttle blip / rev-match technique ?

          Query Merged

          Hello everyone


          I was going through some trackday videos and I heard the guy talking about using the throttle blip/rev-match technique to smoothly shift down gears without the rpms going too up resulting in a jerk/lockup .


          Can anyone tell me its steps ? How to use it ?
          This technique is basically used for down shifting not upshifting, which means the gearshifts are smoother by bringing the engine speed to transmission speed so you won't fell that "clunk" or "thud" when downshifting. It's fairly easy, it's hard to explain, you just need to find the sweet spot for your bike yourself.

          When you're slowing down for a speed breaker and you're or 4th gear, just blip and 3 rd and a blip and then 2nd and blip and 1st so this way your gearshift is smooth. Blip means opening and closing the throttle less than a second.

          Please check the first page of the thread to know more about the techniques, "articulated" by Old Fox sir.

          Cheers!
          VJ
          Last edited by B7ACKTHORN; 01-30-2014, 11:24 PM.
          Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl 'Will you marry me?'
          The girl said, 'NO!'


          And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and watched sport on a big screen TV, went fishing and surfing, and played golf a lot, and drank beer and scotch and had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up and farted whenever he wanted.


          THE END

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          • #35
            Re: How to shift down gears using throttle blip / rev-match technique ?

            Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post
            Query Merged

            This technique is basically used for down shifting not upshifting, which means the gearshifts are smoother by bringing the engine speed to transmission speed so you won't fell that "clunk" or "thud" when downshifting. It's fairly easy, it's hard to explain, you just need to find the sweet spot for your bike yourself.

            When you're slowing down for a speed breaker and you're or 4th gear, just blip and 3 rd and a blip and then 2nd and blip and 1st so this way your gearshift is smooth. Blip means opening and closing the throttle less than a second.

            Please check the first page of the thread to know more about the techniques, "articulated" by Old Fox sir.

            Cheers!
            VJ
            I got the point and tried it, IT WORKS smooth . Wow, I v been riding for the past 10+ years and never cared or knew about this, shame ! , but atleast I am glad I know now and happy to be a part of this awesome xBHP community. Daily learning new things . On my way to become a proper rider .
            Thank and Cheers !
            Last edited by dukist; 01-31-2014, 10:54 AM.
            READY TO RACE >>

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            • #36
              Re: How to shift down gears using throttle blip / rev-match technique ?

              Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post
              Query Merged

              This technique is basically used for down shifting not upshifting, which means the gearshifts are smoother by bringing the engine speed to transmission speed so you won't fell that "clunk" or "thud" when downshifting. It's fairly easy, it's hard to explain, you just need to find the sweet spot for your bike yourself.

              When you're slowing down for a speed breaker and you're or 4th gear, just blip and 3 rd and a blip and then 2nd and blip and 1st so this way your gearshift is smooth. Blip means opening and closing the throttle less than a second.

              Please check the first page of the thread to know more about the techniques, "articulated" by Old Fox sir.
              Do you release the clutch and pull it again before every downshift during the scenario you mentioned? I too blip the throttle but I just keep pulling the clutch and keep downshifting.
              I am back!

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              • #37
                This or That?

                I am an amateur motorcyclist who has covered a few thousand kilometers on my motorcycle.

                When I first started to learn, my riding school teacher always suggested that I slow down first before shifting down to a lower gear and gradually release the clutch to avoid any instability.

                But, after I started looking out for more information and more practical methods I came across throttle bliping. I get the reason why riders do this but always wondered how to do it.

                In some sites it has been mentioned in the following order:

                pull in clutch -> downshift -> blip throttle -> release clutch gradually through the point of friction.

                Whereas in other sites there is a mild variation:

                pull in clutch -> blip throttle -> downshift -> release clutch gradually through the point of friction.

                I have tried both these methods and have both successful and failed attempts. But before going further and mastering a method out of these two I want to know the right procedure to downshift.

                I would also like to know if it is necessary to release the clutch every time when the gear is shifted down. Say I am shifting from 5th to 2nd, then after downshifting and bliping to 4th, should I release the clutch and pull it back in before going to 3rd and 2nd? Or can I just keep the clutch pulled it while holding the brakes until the bike is slowed to a speed suitable to shift to 2nd and then blip and downshift all the way to 2nd without releasing the clutch everytime I go down a gear?

                If this has already been discussed, please merge or share the link to the right method.

                Also mention the right procedure if the above mentioned procedures are wrong.

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                • #38
                  Re: This or That?

                  Originally posted by srinath2494 View Post
                  I am an amateur motorcyclist who has covered a few thousand kilometers on my motorcycle.

                  When I first started to learn, my riding school teacher always suggested that I slow down first before shifting down to a lower gear and gradually release the clutch to avoid any instability.


                  Also mention the right procedure if the above mentioned procedures are wrong.
                  Search and you shall receive

                  http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...tml#post141055
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                  • #39
                    Re: This or That?

                    Originally posted by The Monk View Post

                    thanks for merging

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                    • #40
                      Re: Changing Gears

                      This is only only about clutchless gear shifts. Nothing beats use of clutch regardless.

                      I will describe my successfully tested and tried MOTOGP technique of clutchless upshifting(only upshifting) (what happens automatically in a MotoGP machine, I tried to replicate manually and it works like charm.

                      I believe this is the least damaging technique of upshifting or downshifting I have known and studied, as a matter of fact, clutchless shifts put less load on clutch and reduce its wear and tear if done properly). Slipper clutch is an added advantage. Multiplate clutch has little advantage. Only clutch plate is no advantage.

                      GEAR system in consideration:1 down, Neutral, 2-5/6 up.

                      Remember, we are talking about clutchless shifts and are meant to be done only while accelerating/decelerating when not at standstill or dead slow speeds.

                      Before going on for the technique, remember the following:
                      1) Gears are engaged by shifting of dog-teeth connected to the output shaft from one gear into another. Every gear has a sweet spot of its own in the RPM range. All you have to do is apply the gear and let it choose for itself when to engage. Without any extra input, the gear, clutch and engine work unanimously.
                      2) 19-20 difference in any wet sump engine is negotiated by the +/- torque created by the film of oil between clutch plate and engine(Because the oil is also set in circular motion by the angular motion of the engine and also resists the motion of engine during deceleration).
                      3) For clutchless Downshifts, blipping throttle method does not work(works but puts load). Without the use of clutch, if one has to follow blipping method, that would involve applying brakes to an extent that the effect of blipping cancels out the braking effect(difficult). Then one can downshift in the meanwhile. I have tried this several times and I imply that the brake wear, chain wear and clutch wear will be more momentarily for obvious reasons.

                      METHOD:

                      UPSHIFT:
                      1) Say you are in gear X @ speed M (Example X=3 rd Gear M= 20 kmph)
                      2) You want to transit into gear X+1(Example X+1= 4th gear). Consider speed N(Example: Say lowest speed in 4th gear is 30 kmph) is the lowest speed that can be achieved in gear X+1 without lugging.
                      Then, M must be greater than N (This wont work for our example as M
                      NOTE: To make things easy, you must be atleast 2000 rpm above your idle RPM in any given gear. This may be more for superbikes.

                      3) Now when you want to transit into another gear, this is what you do:

                      a) You are in gear X. Rolling-on the throttle , still rolling on(aggressive/non aggressive.. doesnt matter).

                      b) With the upper part of your foot, build a good pressure(enough to change the gear.....but note that the gear wont change yet regardless of you applying pressure) on the gear lever in the up direction. Remember, you are still in gear X and still rolling-on...And suppose you want to maintain that speed you keep a static throttle.

                      c) Now whenever you want to go into gear X+1, just roll-off the throttle a little with a slight jerk(exact opposite of blipping). The gear will smoothly slide into gear X+1. At times, you will not even notice that.

                      4) This works regardless of what valid RPM the engine is at.

                      DOWNSHIFT:
                      REMEMBER, smooth(but not butter smooth unless there is slipper clutch) clutchless downshift cannot be done aggressively and can be done only at lower rpms to avoid jerks. If you are ok with getting jerks, then you can do this at higher rpms as well. On a MOTOGP bike, there is a mechanism to automatically sense pressure on gear lever and auto blip when the gear is downshifted.

                      If you are pacing and want to slow down to like dead slow, then the easiest way to clutchless downshift is to slow down, in a given gear ,to such an extent that you almost touch idle RPM, and push the gear lever down to engage the lower gear n repeat.

                      This is very easy and butter smooth for 6th,5th,4th and 3rd gear downshifts. Do not accelerate(if required) till lower gear is engaged. But this also means that you can downshift only at slow speeds. Example: You are doing a 100 kmph @ 5th gear @ 7000 rpm. So you drop down to 1500 rpm(supposing thats 100 more than idle rpm) and downshift to 5th gear and then to 4th........to 3rd or may be 2nd.

                      For first gear(from second to first gear)(or third gear to 2nd gear), you need to USE CLUTCH else you will get a jerk before you eventually use the clutch before you come to standstill.

                      This is all based on personal experience and hence I am sure about its working. May be I may have not put it down correctly. kindly revert if having any doubts.

                      I use upshifting in city when the roads are clear. Also I use downshifting method only on highways. Clutchless Upshifting technique is great in drag races, you save valuable time avoiding use of clutch.

                      Extra Gyaan: The gear system on a MOTOGP is reverse. 1 up, Neutral, 2-6 down.

                      ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

                      Originally posted by srinath2494 View Post
                      In some sites it has been mentioned in the following order:

                      pull in clutch -> downshift -> blip throttle -> release clutch gradually through the point of friction.

                      Whereas in other sites there is a mild variation:

                      pull in clutch -> blip throttle -> downshift -> release clutch gradually through the point of friction.
                      RPM mathcing bro. And it is instantaneous not gradual and only at higher RPMS(where the torque is about 50% plus). The method is for clutchful downshift.

                      I will refer to my beauty and the beast (Pulsar 220F) to explain.

                      Say if the bike is in 5th gear at 7000 rpm, speed about 100 kmph. I wish to overtake someone fast. So I need to shift down to fourth gear.

                      Now these are the figures I should know. The difference between 4th gear and fifth gear is of about 800 rpms. Meaning if I hypothetically just bang my gear lever down once to engage fourth gear, the rpm will surge by 800(So assuming the speed is same, I will be at 100 kmph, 4th gear at 7800 rpm. Earlier it was 100 kmph, 5th gear 7000 rpm).

                      Now, this difference in RPM combined by the massive torque to resist the increase in RPM by traction between rear wheel and road makes the wheel lock temporarily. We dont want this unless you are stunting, man.

                      What we have to do is by the time the fourth gear is engaged, manually raise the rpm to 7800.

                      So,
                      1) We clutch in(Not all the way but enough to disengage it). (Note that the moment you do this, the RPM starts dropping as it is.)
                      2) You blip the throttle to raise the RPM to desired value(Very quickly done. A little slower than Rajnikanth does)
                      3) Downshift immediately and let go off the clutch immediately.

                      The whole process takes less than a second.


                      Originally posted by srinath2494 View Post
                      I would also like to know if it is necessary to release the clutch every time when the gear is shifted down. Say I am shifting from 5th to 2nd, then after downshifting and bliping to 4th, should I release the clutch and pull it back in before going to 3rd and 2nd? Or can I just keep the clutch pulled it while holding the brakes until the bike is slowed to a speed suitable to shift to 2nd and then blip and downshift all the way to 2nd without releasing the clutch everytime I go down a gear?
                      Again speed between gears should be valid and rpm matching needs to be done.
                      Case 1: Speed: 100 kmph, Gear : 5th, RPM: 7000
                      If you want to engage say third gear(5-4-3), not possible as the top speed at 3rd gear/10000 rpm is about 95 kmph. This will redline and possibly stall the engine.

                      Case 2: Speed: 60 kmph Gear: 5th, RPM: about 4000
                      You want to engage third gear(possible here). Now one should know that difference between 5th and 4th gear is about 800 rpm and that between 4th and 3rd is about 700 rpm. So in all, when downshifting from 5th to 3rd, there will be a surge of about 1500 rpm. That means in the above process, after clutching in, you will have to blip the throttle to achieve 1500 rpm increase over current rpm, quickly engage third gear and let go off the clutch.

                      Originally posted by srinath2494 View Post
                      Or can I just keep the clutch pulled it while holding the brakes until the bike is slowed to a speed suitable to shift to 2nd and then blip and downshift all the way to 2nd without releasing the clutch everytime I go down a gear?
                      If you are doing this, no need to blip as you are already at a speed compatible to 2nd gear.

                      HAPPY DOWNSHIFTING....
                      Last edited by Parvez Ghadialy; 12-14-2015, 06:48 PM.



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                      • #41
                        Re: Changing Gears

                        Originally posted by The Monk View Post
                        Originally posted by Old Fox View Post
                        My reference to synchromesh was in relation to 'clutchless shifts' as an example of the need to unload the gears before changing them, though I should have specifically mentioned that bikes do NOT have synchro boxes. Bikes use constant-mesh gearboxes. And constant-mesh are not the same as synchro boxes.



                        Bada mushkil hai bhai! To express in words whats accomplished in about a second or so. OK, will give it a try again.

                        First, the need to 'blip' again: Say you're riding in 4th gear at 60 kph. The corresponding rpm is about 5000. Downshift to 3rd at that speed and the rpm's jump to 6000. This sudden jump is felt as a jerk, the tyre locks up momentarily (less so in bikes equipped with slipper clutches but none of our desi bikes' power outputs justify a slipper clutch) and the whole driveline experiences a harsh jerk. So far so good I hope.

                        Blipping is momentarily increasing the rpm's so that when the rider releases the clutch after shifting to 3rd (in the example above), the engine is already spinning at around 6000 rpm and so there is no sudden jump in the rpm's.

                        How it is done: In usual downshifting, the rider closes the throttle, pulls in the clutch lever, downshifts, releases the clutch while simultaneously increasing throttle.

                        With the 'blip': Close throttle, de-clutch, blip throttle (a momentary and snappy rotation of the throttle), simultaneously downshift, release clutch and increase throttle. As I said earlier, doing each discrete action is not the issue, any rider can do it. Doing the whole thing as a co-ordinated exercise takes practice, practice and practice.

                        Hope this helps...
                        Good news. I got it within a month's practice! It was there everywhere on web but nobody mentioned that shifting and bliping should be done simultaneously. It's half the problem solved. Thanks folks.

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                        • #42
                          Gear shifting

                          I'm a beginner in regards to biking and I have bought myself a new bike. Experts please advise me on how to go about the clutch+ gearbox so that they last longer or I don't make any mistakes which may harm the bike

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