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Does ABS really help?

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  • #46
    Re: Does ABS really help?

    Ok Guys so here's Summing it Up in a M.O.M

    It was agreed with large consensus that:-

    1. An ABS is quite a Handy commodity and can come really useful in tricky and unexpected situations.
    2. An ABS equipped bike is no guarantee of safety of rider/bike/others on the road.
    3. An accident free record is what we all want, but its certainly not a sign of healthy driving/Riding habits.

    Did i miss any other IMP points, please feel free to add concisely.

    IMHO - Whether we have an ABS on our bike or not and whether or not we ever SURVIVED purely because of an ABS or not, we still cant debate if ABS really helps. This is due to few reasons such as, We all have different Riding conditions and different riding habits. What kept us safe, we follow; what put us in danger we avoid, and that's how we all got our riding habits to begin with, and all so with or without the ABS!

    Let's not forget that much of The Bike has evolved Not in India and Not always for a commuter or commuter bike class, in focus. Much tech evolves out of need or out of Availability Of technology at that point of time ON THE RACE TRACKS (and hey, ABS was developed for Aircrafts!)


    ABS too is just one of those things. Its just technology and as and how time goes, more and more new technology Will Make Its Way into our Bikes. We never debated if Daytime Running Lights are essential, or Whether we need GPS now, to find our ways, and so on...

    There have been amazing things that bikers have done Without ABS and Without GPS. Remember once upon a time, a simple Tachometer too may not have existed, but now it does, and we can make do without it but still majority of our bikes have it and once we have one, we make use of one. As Simple as that!

    Riding is a skill in itself. Motorcycle is a necessary Means towards Riding. The Man Machine equation works with the machine as a whole!

    Fun Facts
    {Some of you may not like the following, but one of the first companies to test ABS on motorcycle was in fact RE, though they eventually deemed it too expensive to fit on all motorcycles}
    Last edited by rugved; 06-27-2016, 03:38 PM.

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    • #47
      Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

      Originally posted by #bpk View Post
      Yeah, abs is a life saver, saved me , when a cow came in front of me in higway .
      Let me give you an example where not having abs saved my life.

      I took a long sweeping corner at about 100 kmph on r15 on a wide empty road. In middle of road some 20 mtrs ahead there was a car stopped in middle of the road due to some fault. There was no way I could ve stopped in time normally. I squeezed front break as much as I could, modulating/ partially locking it. For entire distance rear tire was in air about 1 feet above ground. Bike stopped inches before car. If it was abs equipped, it would have stopped wheel from locking increasing the distance.

      If you can handle it, not having abs could be safer depending on situation. Dominar would be difficult to handle, admittedly.

      Food for thought. I don't intend to prolong abs discussion. But its nowhere as clear cut important as wearing helmet.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

        Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
        Let me give you an example where not having abs saved my life.

        I took a long sweeping corner at about 100 kmph on r15 on a wide empty road. In middle of road some 20 mtrs ahead there was a car stopped in middle of the road due to some fault. There was no way I could ve stopped in time normally. I squeezed front break as much as I could, modulating/ partially locking it. For entire distance rear tire was in air about 1 feet above ground. Bike stopped inches before car. If it was abs equipped, it would have stopped wheel from locking increasing the distance.

        If you can handle it, not having abs could be safer depending on situation. Dominar would be difficult to handle, admittedly.

        Food for thought. I don't intend to prolong abs discussion. But its nowhere as clear cut important as wearing helmet.
        With the help of abs you can just change direction of motorcycle without collision, that's the point of having abs, not to reduce stopping distance, but to to avoid collision due to tyre locking. If you don't like abs, fine don't buy one.

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        • #49
          Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

          Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
          Let me give you an example where not having abs saved my life.

          I took a long sweeping corner at about 100 kmph on r15 on a wide empty road. In middle of road some 20 mtrs ahead there was a car stopped in middle of the road due to some fault. There was no way I could ve stopped in time normally. I squeezed front break as much as I could, modulating/ partially locking it. For entire distance rear tire was in air about 1 feet above ground. Bike stopped inches before car. If it was abs equipped, it would have stopped wheel from locking increasing the distance.

          If you can handle it, not having abs could be safer depending on situation. Dominar would be difficult to handle, admittedly.

          Food for thought. I don't intend to prolong abs discussion. But its nowhere as clear cut important as wearing helmet.
          If you had ABS, you would have stopped quicker. With the power of both front and rear brakes. Your statement clearly shows your inability to comprehend what ABS does.


          When the wheel is locked, the braking power reduces significantly. Proved by scientific studies on multiple vehicles. That's exactly when ABS cuts in, prevents the wheel lockup, and helps you reduce braking distance.
          Last edited by leech; 09-22-2018, 06:32 PM.

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          • #50
            Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

            Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
            Let me give you an example where not having abs saved my life.

            If it was abs equipped, it would have stopped wheel from locking increasing the distance.

            If you can handle it, not having abs could be safer depending on situation. Dominar would be difficult to handle, admittedly.
            As leech has mentioned above, you have gotten it in reverse. When your wheels lock, the tire loses grip with the road and prolongs movement due to inertia of the vehicle, and in many cases you end up losing control. The ABS kicking in ensures the tire maintain grip with the road and this in turn helps the brakes do its work of slowing down the vehicle in the correct way by reducing speed of the wheel. This cannot happen when the tires have already lost grip, and in many cases you will keep sliding ahead and eventually crash.

            In fact, to put it simply, the ABS does exactly what you say about modulating brake pressure by careful use of the brake lever and applying your judgement, but in a more assured way, leaving out scope for human error.
            Last edited by Indivar; 09-22-2018, 06:45 PM.

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            • #51
              Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

              Originally posted by Indivar View Post
              As leech has mentioned above, you have gotten it in reverse. When your wheels lock, the tire loses grip with the road and prolongs movement due to inertia of the vehicle, and in many cases you end up losing control. The ABS kicking in ensures the tire maintain grip with the road and this in turn helps the brakes do its work of slowing down the vehicle in the correct way by reducing speed of the wheel. This cannot happen when the tires have already lost grip, and in many cases you will keep sliding ahead and eventually crash.

              In fact, to put it simply, the ABS does exactly what you say about modulating brake pressure by careful use of the brake lever and applying your judgement, but in a more assured way, leaving out scope for human error.
              Which scientific law governs this?

              Look up sliding friction vs rolling friction.

              There is a reason why wheel is such an important discovery. Rolling friction is much less than sliding friction.

              Originally posted by leech View Post
              If you had ABS, you would have stopped quicker. With the power of both front and rear brakes. Your statement clearly shows your inability to comprehend what ABS does.


              When the wheel is locked, the braking power reduces significantly. Proved by scientific studies on multiple vehicles. That's exactly when ABS cuts in, prevents the wheel lockup, and helps you reduce braking distance.
              Which studies exactly? I searched net. Even Wikipedia does not give a clear answer. It uses term 'may reduce stopping distance'.

              I did came across forum pages where ppl were inventing laws of physics as they saw fit.

              Even Modiji said demonitisation is good for economy. Ppl got fooled.

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              • #52
                Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
                Which scientific law governs this?

                Look up sliding friction vs rolling friction.

                There is a reason why wheel is such an important discovery. Rolling friction is much less than sliding friction.



                Which studies exactly? I searched net. Even Wikipedia does not give a clear answer. It uses term 'may reduce stopping distance'.

                I did came across forum pages where ppl were inventing laws of physics as they saw fit.

                Even Modiji said demonitisation is good for economy. Ppl got fooled.
                Rolling friction is indeed less than sliding friction, however you forgot to calculate the effects of braking on a rolling wheel and a locked wheel. Watch videos on how abs works.

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                • #53
                  Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                  Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
                  Which scientific law governs this?

                  Look up sliding friction vs rolling friction.

                  There is a reason why wheel is such an important discovery. Rolling friction is much less than sliding friction.

                  Hi

                  Studying friction between surfaces is not my field of work, what i have stated is from practical experience of driving motorcycles over the years. This is anyways not the forum to debate using scientific terminology.

                  The best example of understanding any theory is by applying it to real life. I dont recommend you do a braking test with ABS vs non ABS since that could be risky, but you can always watch a few good youtube videos to understand how it works. But please, Wikipedia is not the right place to learn science. If you an an engineering or science student, you can access publications where studies have been carried out in the subject. Otherwise , most research is a paid service if you want access.

                  Here is a simpler to understand article written by the company who makes the ABS control unit for the Dominar.



                  If you learn something interesting, do share .

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                  • #54
                    Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                    Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
                    Let me give you an example where not having abs saved my life.

                    I took a long sweeping corner at about 100 kmph on r15 on a wide empty road. In middle of road some 20 mtrs ahead there was a car stopped in middle of the road due to some fault. There was no way I could ve stopped in time normally. I squeezed front break as much as I could, modulating/ partially locking it. For entire distance rear tire was in air about 1 feet above ground. Bike stopped inches before car. If it was abs equipped, it would have stopped wheel from locking increasing the distance.

                    If you can handle it, not having abs could be safer depending on situation. Dominar would be difficult to handle, admittedly.

                    Food for thought. I don't intend to prolong abs discussion. But its nowhere as clear cut important as wearing helmet.
                    This is completely fake. No one, no one can stop R15 at 20 mtr distance from 100 to 0. The breaks on that bike are just not that good. Don't use your made-up scenarios in argument just to prove your point.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                      Originally posted by NirmalDushman View Post
                      This is completely fake. No one, no one can stop R15 at 20 mtr distance from 100 to 0. The breaks on that bike are just not that good. Don't use your made-up scenarios in argument just to prove your point.
                      Look at YouTube video by Ayush Verma comparing stopping distance of r15 and pulsar 200rs. Forget the conclusion cause he messed it up. Just look at stopping distance.

                      Agreed i did not measured it, it was more of a ballpark figure. Keep in mind my tire was in air for considerably longer duration unlike Ayush.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                        Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
                        Look at YouTube video by Ayush Verma comparing stopping distance of r15 and pulsar 200rs. Forget the conclusion cause he messed it up. Just look at stopping distance.

                        Agreed i did not measured it, it was more of a ballpark figure. Keep in mind my tire was in air for considerably longer duration unlike Ayush.
                        Start following good people on social media from whom you can actually learn something good and new ,like diy and maintenance tips, not someone who race on public roads and put his and others life to risk.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                          Originally posted by Ijs View Post
                          Start following good people on social media from whom you can actually learn something good and new ,like diy and maintenance tips, not someone who race on public roads and put his and others life to risk.
                          Why did you get the idea that I follow him and race around on road? Look at my previous posts.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                            Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
                            Let me give you an example where not having abs saved my life.

                            I took a long sweeping corner at about 100 kmph on r15 on a wide empty road. In middle of road some 20 mtrs ahead there was a car stopped in middle of the road due to some fault. There was no way I could ve stopped in time normally. I squeezed front break as much as I could, modulating/ partially locking it. For entire distance rear tire was in air about 1 feet above ground. Bike stopped inches before car. If it was abs equipped, it would have stopped wheel from locking increasing the distance.

                            If you can handle it, not having abs could be safer depending on situation. Dominar would be difficult to handle, admittedly.

                            Food for thought. I don't intend to prolong abs discussion. But its nowhere as clear cut important as wearing helmet.

                            That's risky riding. First off all if the road was wide open and empty how come a car came out of nowhere and you were not aware of it and had to do panic braking. If you had partially locked front wheel then I don't understand how loosing front didn't get you off-balance and you still were able to do a stoppie!! Not able to digest it. Also using just your front brakes while panic braking in a corner!! Bad Idea. Maybe it saved your life maybe it was your skill but that cannot determine that ABS is worthless. And please stop discussing around to prove your point. Book a NON ABS of Dominar and be content with it. Peace
                            Last edited by msuthar25; 09-25-2018, 12:41 PM.
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                            • #59
                              Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                              Originally posted by msuthar25 View Post
                              That's risky riding. First off all if the road was wide open and empty how come a car came out of nowhere and you were not aware to do panic braking. If you had partially locked front wheel then I don't understand how loosing front didn't get you off-balance and you still were able to do a stoppie!! Not able to digest it. Maybe it saved your life maybe it was your skill but that cannot determine that ABS is worthless. And please stop discussing around to prove your point. Book a NON ABS of Dominar and be content with it. Peace
                              I am not interested in non abs dominar. Please read full discussion.

                              Stoppie is done by locking wheel only. And I cannot see around corner unless I have taken corner. Read comment and try to comprehend. I have explained clearly.

                              I am simply discussing pros and cons of having abs. Am only replying to people who quote me. If you are tired of discussing then don't quote me.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Ownership Experience Thread

                                Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post
                                I am not interested in non abs dominar.

                                I am simply discussing pros and cons of having abs. Am only replying to people who quote me. If you are tired of discussing then don't quote me.
                                Silent claps for you. [emoji1305]
                                This is dominar ownership forum buddy. Please continue your pros and cons session in ABS thread.
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