Topic moved to Pit Stop: General Biking discussions.

ABS would've helped, but the keyword is whether it helped "in time". ABS does avoid wheel locking, but how quick it reacts depends on the model and construction of ABS.


But remember: ABS can help with braking, but its NOT Traction Control. If you accelerate hard through a slippery/ oily spot, you can slip and no ABS in the world can help you there.


PS: 3 days back, I had a mild traction loss on road due to cowdung and skinny tyres of R15 on my bike. I was accelerating, but only slightly at the best.
Still, what a slide it was, but I managed to escape without falling as after the cowdung passed through, the tyres gripped the road again.

Here's something I learnt the hard way,
WHEN IN DOUBT GAS IT!!! AND GAS IT HARD.

CBR does not hold even on a dry road.. forget about the oil patch..

and ABS wont help if the tyre has no traction at all. ABS works when you brake hard. it wont work when you never applied brake but the tyre lost traction due to slippery road.. its prevents wheel lock and not wheel slip.

the car could hold it for all 4 tyres did not go through the path.. the other 2/3 tyres would still hold good on road. if the oil patch was big enough to lube all the 4 wheels of the car.. they might have had a roller coster ride...

Very well pointed out, ABS prevents wheel locking, if there is no wheel locking it can't do anything about it. This is the basic misunderstanding which leads to lot of slides/spins on snow roads, people think that their cars got 4x4 & ABS and can handle snow, but they are in for surprise or is it shock! What actually they need is traction control & snow tires to handle snow. In case of slippery surfaces it's traction control that plays a big role, not ABS.

Are you sure? If it didn't hold on dry roads, then its quite a miracle that all of the CBR 250R owners are surviving in this country.

right, but...are you saying as what's needed for ABS to work or something related to above incident?

Agreed which might be the case above

Can you explain a little more briefly? I tend to get into different understanding & don't want to jump into conclusions without understanding your clear intentions.

And I think a two wheeler cant be safer as a four wheeler, with any safety technology or feature, At the end of the point, its a two wheeler...

So comparison is not with a four wheeler its just a stuff how can engineers make a two wheeler more safer on roads with safety features...

Right said Samarth!!
So any mature good rider don't need an ABS...
Locking of wheels are something which even a good rider can take care off. So as far as ABS is concerned: It's just for some cornering ??? When we are in speed and try to brake, here it will help it from not locking it and skid?? most bikes skids while they are not straight lined.

Very strange we all know these but our sales guys don't, recently i was going for CBR ABS just because of bigger bike for touring, and i asked the rep:
Me: Apart from power and Speed why should i go for this BIke ??
Rep: Sir, it has ABS. Honda name. Cheap in 250cc.
Me: what ABS ??
Rep: Sir, ABS is a system where on slippery or oil or wet patch your bike won't slip !!!
And i thought wow!! i was in dark these days with ABS mechanism. But later googling i went for CL350, becuase came to know the ABS working??

But some where i feel when ABS don't allow to lock the wheels , then even on oil patch this wheels would reduce teh skidding effect by 40% becuase wheels are moving. In locked wheels, we start dancing instantly, but ABS will allow us to go through the patch till certain distance ??

Technically riding a bike and it's knowledge comes with real experience in past!!

I dont know how did you learnt it am sure If you follow what ever u've written soon u'll have another crash. In case of wheelspin or skid due to any reason never ever give any inputs , Bike will correct itself Giving throttle or braking hard in these conditions will only make matter worst for you . Read you own signature that explains everything .

ABS = Anti Lock Braking System it is designed to prevent wheel locks in panic situations and it wont help in situations like oil spill or if you skid on wet surface .

lol, this cowdung thing has happened with me also, and if you are on cowdung while taking a turn...good luck

i have lost traction a couple of times on slushy road also... but managed to survive.

^^ the rest of the part is somewhat true.

regarding cars... i think what he meant was that even a car can skid, if there is sufficient oil on road so that all four wheels of a car go through oil patch at the same time. so for that the pool of oil on road has to be bigger than the size of a car. this is what i understand.

very true, if you feel there is a loss of traction, avoind sudden inputs like throttle, brakes etc... and best is no input at all, try to maintain status quo, and in most of the situations the bike will correct itself.

I don't know where this discussion is headed...

All I can say is, ABS/Traction controls are like insurance (more like riding gears); can someone ride a motorcycle without them? Hell why not? But you never know when you need them. Having them doesn't harm, but not having them is taking chances.

ABS is only about ensuring that the wheels don't lock up under hard braking and as a result of that lock-up, going into a skid. It is not an all-encompassing anti-skid device.

In the situation described by the OP, ABS would only have been of help in case the oil patch was relatively small (more of a slick as they say) meaning oil would be under one wheel of the bike at a time. In such a case if the rider attempted braking and the braking wheel hit the oil patch, the ABS would cut in and prevent wheel lock-up. That would allow the bike to 'roll over' the low traction oil patch provided the bike was upright and traveling straight.

If the oil spill is bigger, it only means that the tyres would not have any traction available. And ABS by its very function restores 'available' traction to the wheel by removing all traction demands on the contact patch. It cannot create traction where there isn't any. In that case the only way to get across the oil (or any such low traction patch) is to take the bike across in a steady state condition i.e. no throttle, braking or turning inputs till there's traction beneath the contact patches to respond to those inputs. Which takes me to the post quoted below:

Ashwin: if you 'gas' it on an oil slick, the only result you will get is a wildly spinning rear wheel that will take you wherever its 'random' physics takes you. The 'gas it when in doubt' is more about limited available traction conditions as during off-roading or riding through slush. Oil slicks, black ice, thin film slicks etc can easily be classed as 'zero friction/traction' conditions. And 'gassing' needs traction to be of use.

And please there is no need to post in psychedelic extra bold all caps font to 'stress' your point. If what you say is good enough, people will read, understand and appreciate it in 'normal' font size. The best and most civil 'attention assist' means are underlining and 'bold'.

Thanks a ton OF sir for explaining in such simple words .

I agree with what you have said above but then why in the link below, the ABS is helping? The wet patch is a pretty big one covering both wheels and still ABS is preventing the bike from sliding.

TVS Apache RTR ABS - YouTube

There is always grip on the tyres even in the wet. Thats the reason you retain directional and speed control even when riding through a torrential downpour. You have grip as long as the tyre is moving and cutting across the water (using treads) to grip the underlying road.

If however you brake so hard on such a surface that the compromised wet grip is insufficient to slow the bike down, the tyres will lock. As soon as the tyres lock, since the tyre treads can no longer cut through the water, there will be aquaplaning and further, total loss of grip. The ABS will help you in this situation since it will prevent the tyres from locking up in the first place.

BUT, the grip when you encounter an oil-patch is much much lower than on water-wet roads. In such a scenario, there will be absolutely no grip between tyres and the road even if there is no wheel locking. And when there is no locking, the ABS won't do anything to help.

That said, a certain make of tyres are known to be very bad on wet roads and has much lesser grip on wet tarmac than its competitiors. ABS cannot help you mask this shortcoming of the tire against a bike with no ABS but better wet grip. The non ABS bike with better tyre grip will still stop better (in a shorter distance) than an ABS equipped bike with rubbish tyres.