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**antz.bin** · 09-06-2012, 12:43 AM

Query Approved

Most commuter bikes are designed to give torque very low down in the rev range. 25 in 4th gear is not a big deal for them, they can easily manage. Problems will occur if you can actually feel the engine protesting about the low speed in high gears. Its all about how you connect with your bike. Listen to it, it will tell you everything you need to know.

**Honda_CBF** · 09-06-2012, 01:43 AM

25 kmph in 4th gear is not the whole scenario for lugging an engine.
25 in 4th with full acceleration can be said lugging.
25kmph in 4th, no uphill, no pillion, no extra (heavy) weight and very light throttle can't be said lugging [but i still feel you should downshift for 25kmph and upshift back after around 28kmph]
about mileage thing:
rise in rpm doesn't always means dip in mileage figures. In fact, lugging an engine will cause lesser mileage than reving it or atleast it won't cause any rise in mileage.
There's always a rpm range for mileage just like speed. For most Indian bikes its between 2.5k rpm to 5.5k rpm.
And yes, lugging an engine is more damaging then reving it.

**Ash_win** · 09-06-2012, 10:44 PM

hmm. maybe i misunderstood the whole concept of "lugging" Alright thanks a lot seniors

**Honda_CBF** · 09-07-2012, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Ash_win View Post

thanks a lot

most welcome. Always happy to help

Originally posted by Ash_win View Post

seniors

don't call me that! I'm not eligible for such a title..

**Hackdrag** · 09-07-2012, 03:15 PM

Lugging the engine is harmful to bikes.

It may consume less fuel , but it may also reduce life of mechanical parts.

Off Topic

In new generation diesel cars , manufacturers suggest lug in city driving for better FE.

The cars ECU will accelerate and decelerate automatically so IC Engine wont stop.
Not sure weather Bikes with ECU-FI will work the same.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

**The Monk** · 09-07-2012, 04:46 PM

Laziness in changing your clothes is bad for hygiene.

Laziness=Bad. Period

**Honda_CBF** · 09-07-2012, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Hackdrag View Post

Lugging the engine is harmful to bikes.

It may consume less fuel , but it may also reduce life of mechanical parts.

Off Topic

In new generation diesel cars , manufacturers suggest lug in city driving for better FE.

The cars ECU will accelerate and decelerate automatically so IC Engine wont stop.
Not sure weather Bikes with ECU-FI will work the same.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

if you call i20 & scorpio crdi a modern diesel, then sorry one can't get 'best' mileage. Tried keeping rpms below 1.3k rpm on a highway trip, kept speed low & constant.
But mileage was better (or sometimes same) with the turbo spinning at around 2k rpm. Even maruti suggests to upshift in such a manner which seems 'lugging' sometimes, but again by upshifting little latter (by ~5kmph, except for 2nd gear) helped (me) to increase mileage.

**Rashid** · 09-07-2012, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post

if you call i20 & scorpio crdi a modern diesel, then sorry one can't get 'best' mileage. Tried keeping rpms below 1.3k rpm on a highway trip, kept speed low & constant.
But mileage was better (or sometimes same) with the turbo spinning at around 2k rpm. Even maruti suggests to upshift in such a manner which seems 'lugging' sometimes, but again by upshifting little latter (by ~5kmph, except for 2nd gear) helped (me) to increase mileage.

Me to felt this on our Ritz diesel, Maruti recommends top-gear at a speed of 40

, but we get more or less same mileage(14-15) even if i restricted myself to second and third and enjoy the turbo instead of driving in fifth and keeping legs on dead, useless pedal.

Coming to bikes in cities my bike(Slingee) can live in fifth even at 25-30 speeds even with a pillion but when more throttle is given engine will start to complain so i downshift all the way to third before taking off, As for mileage i am not sure as i don't ride much in stop and go traffic,, Also expecting more expert comments about this interesting topic,

**Divya Sharan** · 09-07-2012, 10:05 PM

For me, lugging the engine means 'DAG-DAG-DAG' sound.
It comes when the speed to gear ratio is incorrect; i.e. 20 kmph in top gear, or 15 kmph in 3rd gear for high revving machines.

Be it a car/bike, one should never lug (stress) the engine. It does more harm than good.

For maximum mileage, shift between 3.5k to 4k RPM. For cars, shift around 1.5k to 2k RPM.
For bikes without a tacho:-
0-9 kmph - 1st gear
10-15 kmph - 2nd gear
15-30 kmph - 3rd gear
30-45 kmph - 4th gear
>45 kmph - 5th gear (may/may not apply)
[All bikes with 6th gear come with a tacho.

]

**Ash_win** · 09-07-2012, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

For me, lugging the engine means 'DAG-DAG-DAG' sound.
It comes when the speed to gear ratio is incorrect; i.e. 20 kmph in top gear, or 15 kmph in 3rd gear for high revving machines.

Be it a car/bike, one should never lug (stress) the engine. It does more harm than good.

For maximum mileage, shift between 3.5k to 4k RPM. For cars, shift around 1.5k to 2k RPM.
For bikes without a tacho:-
0-9 kmph - 1st gear
10-15 kmph - 2nd gear
15-30 kmph - 3rd gear
30-45 kmph - 4th gear
>45 kmph - 5th gear (may/may not apply)
[All bikes with 6th gear come with a tacho.

]

My bike doesn't have a tacho! I'm following the above mentioned way of up shifting. But you know sometimes when in traffic I get confused, though the bike doesn't complain when it goes below 30 in 4th gear without a pillion and i hear that 'DAG-DAG-DAG' sound I give a bit of throttle and everything's fine. But with the pillion when i tried this (initial days of riding) the engine would stall and the cars behind would start honking

Now i learned how to do it, i don't now how but with a pillion when the engine's about to stall i automatically downshift. But have to admit it, a little bit of lug is inevitable especially when you're riding in heavy traffic (maybe its coz of my lack of practice) How does it harm the engine/Gearbox?

**Ash_win** · 09-07-2012, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by The Monk View Post

Laziness in changing your clothes is bad for hygiene.

Laziness=Bad. Period

Laziness=Bad yes, but Helpful= NO!!

**Honda_CBF** · 09-08-2012, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Ash_win View Post

My bike doesn't have a tacho! I'm following the above mentioned way of up shifting. But you know sometimes when in traffic I get confused, though the bike doesn't complain when it goes below 30 in 4th gear without a pillion and i hear that 'DAG-DAG-DAG' sound I give a bit of throttle and everything's fine. But with the pillion when i tried this (initial days of riding) the engine would stall and the cars behind would start honking

Now i learned how to do it, i don't now how but with a pillion when the engine's about to stall i automatically downshift. But have to admit it, a little bit of lug is inevitable especially when you're riding in heavy traffic (maybe its coz of my lack of practice) How does it harm the engine/Gearbox?

always try not to lug an engine. With time, kms and little experience quick gear changes will automatically come to you as reflex actions (this is also fun and very important thing in biking i.e. Right gear all the time).if you want to speed up this learning process then go out & practice

. I can now shift up/down through all 5 gears in less then 3 seconds.. Flashback to 2005 when riding a cbz (a 4 stroke bike) for first time it took 2 seconds for each gear shift.
Talking about damages gearbox'es don't suffer from lugging they only go kaput with wrong shifting techniques and mishandeling (they are the most robust part in a power-train)
and most damage happens to engines lower parts.

Awaiting expert opinion regarding how and why damages happen when an engine is lugged..

**Ash_win** · 09-08-2012, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post

always try not to lug an engine. With time, kms and little experience quick gear changes will automatically come to you as reflex actions (this is also fun and very important thing in biking i.e. Right gear all the time).if you want to speed up this learning process then go out & practice

. I can now shift up/down through all 5 gears in less then 3 seconds.. Flashback to 2005 when riding a cbz (a 4 stroke bike) for first time it took 2 seconds for each gear shift.
Talking about damages gearbox'es don't suffer from lugging they only go kaput with wrong shifting techniques and mishandeling (they are the most robust part in a power-train)
and most damage happens to engines lower parts.

Awaiting expert opinion regarding how and why damages happen when an engine is lugged..

Whoa! 3 seconds!

thats fast! I take 3 seconds just to go from 1-2 then another 3 for 2-3 and like that!

Practice..Yes i need to ride more!

Even I'm waiting for "expert opinion" oh how lugging damages an engine. Everybody say that lugging is bad but no one knows how!

**Divya Sharan** · 09-08-2012, 07:02 PM

Honda_CBF bhai, tussi great ho! Meeting you the next time I pay a visit to Tata for sure.
[OT] U going home in Diwali? [/OT]

Ashwin, here's some info for you:-
--------------
The crankshaft and connecting rod bearings in the engine are just plain bearings. They have no balls or rollers, just a thin metal shell insert with an oil groove which "rubs" against the crankshaft.

You know how your bike/car tires will hydroplane when you go fast enough thru deep enough water. The bearings work on this hydroplaning principle. If the rotational surface speed of the bearing is fast enough (fast enough engine rpm) the crankshaft will hydroplane up on the oil film and never touch the bearing shell when the engine is running.

Otherwise, it will rub and wear the bearing. You will not know it is wearing for a long time, and then it will be too late and you will hear knocking noises when the engine idles. This noise is caused by the clearance in the bearing getting bigger due to wearing away the bearing shell. At this point people put in thicker oil and blah blah blah...

Read more here and more importantly here!

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Lazy to change gears/ Bad for the engine??

Lazy to change gears/ Bad for the engine??

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