Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

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Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

I maybe wrong here, but I feel Honda charges premium because we have an impression that their refined engines are really trustworthy and reliable and they'll last a long long time. Not that this is untrue, but rival companies have equally competent engines in their portfolio.

Adding to this, Ninja (<650 cc) costs a bomb here. Reason - Premium brand image. They said it themselves.

Note that in India, word of mouth is a very capable market puller. Somebody says Honda Shine is the best bike in the segment, soon relatives start buying the same without thinking much. (Splendor/Passion/Shine/RE etc are prime examples).

But, charging extra for number plate/saree guard etc is daylight robbery!

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

Well, to some extent yes. Once a company establishes itself in the market, they can charge anything. Its the brand name that adds to the cost. Also, in terms of technology, Indian manufacturers have tie-ups with all foreign players in the market.

Its like choosing between Honda Activa or Hero Pleasure. Both are almost identical. But, a 1st time buyer will buy Honda Activa. The name Honda Activa has more weightage over Pleasure.

Cheerz!!

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

technology- yes, japanese are better, they have been doing R&D and producing bikes since ages, indian manufacturers are still in the learning phase. quality- depends, bikes built in japanese factories are top-notch quality, whereas their factories in other countries are not able to produce bikes with same quality as their home country, for ex- CBR had lot of quality issues initially. now they have improved, still it is better than indian companies. very true, even rear view mirrors, which are mandatory by law.

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?


It doesn't matter to the customer in the real. Do you think other companies give them for free? Whether its included or as an accessory the buyer has to pay for them!

There are even instances with Hero dealers selling cheap/duplicate spares inside genuine covers. Like 2nd quality piston rings with Usha pistons(for their 100ccs). Usha piston ring costs around 400buks where these costs around half the price. and they sell it under usha labels. Replaced by distributors mayB
And when it comes to spares honda charge premium but the quality is top notch. refer any mechanics

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

Why will the company charge for rear views etc? They have all the right to take xyz amount for the whole bike. Its the dealers who make quick money from selling number plates etc.. even the yellow TR sticker is accounted for.

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

The axis is No pain No gain. I believe good thing will cost more. The material used and its reliability if is high the cost will be high. Hondas have been pioneers since the very past. The refinement levels and the product they sell are top notch undoubtedly. A little more if goes for that i wont mind. But the way a mere brand tag shoots the price up is a little weird. A leg-guard of same design and material w.r.t. a different brand if is priced high just because Honda is selling it, yess it seems a little weird. But thats a different thing.
As per the technology levels of japanese....Yess indeed they are....High class R&D and resarch that goes into indeed brings forth a gem. As per Indian brands are considered they are learning and the collaborations and tie-ups we see as a current trend among the leading manufacturers, this will surely make our R&D strong and will lead to our proceedural paradigm far more furnished.

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

Actually the thread starter has not framed his question properly at all. It is all sorts of ambiguous thus making this thread a potential cracker. Thanks mods for keeping an eye out.

That said, the following are my two cents about the topic from what I could extract from the TS post:

1) Quality Control: This parameter checks if the product made conforms to the quality standards set by the company? Are the standards of Japanese companies higher than ours? I do not think so, companies like Bajaj and TVS have international standards just as Japanese makers. That said, do all these companies follow that quality control?? Absolutely NOT!! And this applies to all manufacturers in India, be it Japanese or Indian manufacturer.

A friend of mine recently bought a Unicorn, I was shocked at the quality of the switch gear, it was disgustingly bad. Way worse than my bike (2011 model) and another Unicorn which was a 2008 model. Has their QC standards fallen? No but had the quality fallen? Yes!

Quality: Quality is dependent on the smaller companies which deliver parts to big manufacturers. In my bike the front brakes are from KBX (Kalyani Brakes) whereas the rear are from Nissin. Without a doubt I can say that my Nissins are better than KBX, this same bike sold in Thailand has another local manufacturer making the front brakes. This means that the quality will be variable however the QC standards will be the same. Do the companies bother to ensure the quality? AFAIK no, they respond to economics in the same way aata/dal or petrol responds.

Technology: I think that Japanese makers are WAY WAY MORE technologically ahead than Indian manufacturers. BUT Is this fact relevant to Indian Market though?? Haha absolutely NOT..!! In India everything is the same. Why? Our market is still running on old technology. Be it Japanese or Indian manufacturers, the mass volume motorcycles still run on diamond frames with single cylinder small capacity carburetted engines running on puny ribbed tyres. There is not much scope for technology in our country my friend. Atleast not on the small motorcycles. And where technology does matter the Indian manufacturers do not have products in their portfolio. So this round is won by the Japanese!

That said it is great of Bajaj to push the boundaries for small capacity engines. Sure it has all been done before, but not on small cap engines. Plus one thing which is great about Bajaj and which sets it apart from the Japanese makers is constant evolution. Look at the Pulsar 150 series. Each UG edition was an evolutionary step. Constant improvement over each batch of motorcycles. Listening to consumers and answering them, no body does that better than Bajaj. Yamaha is the best at ignoring consumers, next in line comes Honda, they listen to only their market research team and no one else, not even god. Bajaj is so much better and it keeps improving, however small the improvement may be and this is the real reason why Bajaj is where it is today.

Finally: Is Honda justified charging a premium for their products? If they are going to give people shit for their money then no. And this is the reason that even though I myself own a Honda I have never recommended a CBR150R to anyone and I never will. It is just bullshit to charge that premium, the R15 is as much of a motorcycle at a better price.

However my opinions do not matter, cause they charge the premium and people buy it anyhow. I believe that in commuter segment Bajaj products are better than Shine or Splendor, but heavens will move if the mentality of Indian people changes.

My 20 cents maybe. I will stop now...

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

exactly, but why make the customer mad by listing them as an accessory and charging seperately.


there are two things, one is quality control at own factory and second is quality control of parts supplied by vendors.

and indian manufacturers are way behind in these. the reason i know this is because some 5 years ago my room partner, who was a production engineer, used to work for a company (i don't remember the name) which used to manufacture some parts of carbeurator which are supplied to carb manufacturers for bajaj and some other bike manufacturer, and he told me that quality control on parts made for bajaj bikes was not good because their (bajaj's) tolerance levels were quite high and desired accuracy percentage quite low.

while i know naming a certain manufacturer is not right but can't hold myself back.

that said bajaj offers some real VFM bikes and even i have a pulsar, but that does not camoflage certain facts.

check out this from pulsar workshop manual, 15% variation is allowed in performance, that means a claimed top speed of 120 kmph becomes 102 kmph, even then it is ok as per company -->>

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also this where the pulsar workshop manual says carbeurator AFR screw settings as 2.5 plus minus 2 turns, whoa, that means anywhere from 0.5 to 4.5, you guys are smart enough to figure out why..??

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i am not able to upload images now, will do it tommorrow.

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

I don't know why you even approved such a thread, probably your modesty or call of duty or both; there're who lot of info on the internet to read about with their humble beginning post world war II. If anyone had gone through them, just the first few years, from 1950 onwards, they wouldn't be even asking a question here.

Anyway here's something for starters...
Automotive industry in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An Overview. Japan's Auto Industry. About JAMA
Car History 4U - History of Japanese Motor Car / Automobile Manufacturers
Manufacturing Innovation: Lessons from the Japanese Auto Industry | MIT Sloan Management Review

Last but not the least, let's ask ourselves, when companies like M&M are doing reverse engineering in 2013 (w/o any ethics), do we even qualify ourselves to compete with them?

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

Hi all,

With all due respect fro your great country, I still must say that, when I saw the title of this thread, I wondered if it was a joke or what!

I live in Vietnam. There we have thirty years old 50 and 70cc. Honda Cubs, used daily a real workhorses, with reinforced wheels and super-large luggage carriers, or fitted with an attachment for a trailer....and these bikes, rusty as they may be, bashed and abused as they are, still perform their daily duty. Th engine may have had it's piston replaced a few times, some welding may have been done here and there on the frame, the fact is that 80% of the bike is still there, with many 100k. km under their wheels.

My first real bike, (that is many years ago!) was a Honda four. All my friends had Nortons, Triumphs, and even some Royal Enfields (the British made ones). My Honda, I can frankly tell you, was a jewel as far as not only finishing is concerned, but also reliability compared to these ancestors.

I have had many bikes since: from Honda CB 125 to Yamaha 1200 V-max. All Japanese made, and all great, trouble free bikes!

Now, together with a 125cc. Chinese made Haojiang, "copy" of a Honda 125 Exclusive, I have an India made Yamaha FZ 16 Fazer.

I am sorry to say that the finishing of the Chinese made one beats the Yamaha by a mile and a half for it's finishing and, obviously, quality control. Mind that Haojiang is one of the best and highest reputation motorcycle maker in China, and costing much more than other badly made ones, that sell for half the price of mine.

The India made FZ 16 is miserable. Really! When the engine was opened first time, at less than 2k. km (for putting a larger piston), the intake valve was oily and char-coaled behind belief, as well as the combustion chamber, the piston, etc... (you can find images of that in one of the many Yamaha 16 threads....I can't remember which one). Why?: because Yamaha India people had forgotten to put the seal on the valve stem!!!! What about quality control, here? Also, and I am just one of the many who complain about it, this bike's painting is terrible: central stand literally rusting away, and all the fairing attachment (on the Fazer) showing bad rusty spots everywhere (my bike sleeps inside). Add to this the fork cone that needs replacing after less than 20k km, the (India made) MRF tyres that keep being punctured (my Pirellis, with much softer compound, never had such problems), and one can start having serious doubts about India made bikes, and the "made in India" reliability in general. Some may be marveled that their India made FZ-16 has been trouble free for 20k km. This will be the case for over 100k. km with a Japan made one (NOT a Japanese brand made in India).

Sticking to bikes: the Royal Enfield, this low tech dinosaur, is just a laugh when you look at it with (foreign engineer) eyes! It can be called "bullit" or whatever, it is so rough, using so primitive casting techniques, that no wonder why nobody wants to buy it anywhere but in India (while there are RE dealers everywhere in the world!) in spite of it's remarkably low price (for it's weight!), but by a few people with a nostalgia for bygone days.....and perhaps for difficult starting, unreliable electrics, and poor performance...!
And don't get me talking about Bajaj: when I see one, I cry (twenty years retards that want to "look like").

No, seriously: please wake up!

Quality control, but also technological advance, finishing and, above all: the real care of the workers for what they do, doubled with high education (many people working in bike manufacturing workshop in Japan have a bachelor degree), all that cannot be acquired easily. It's a whole state of mind, not only care but even real devotion to their work and Company that characterizes the "made in Japan", for bikes and for many other things.

Your country, India, is a great one, with an immense culture (and a few very debatable traits like how women are treated in some places....I wanted to say it, although it is seriously O.T. !), but also the I.T. from India is worldwide acclaimed, and the fabrication of affordable drugs, identical to the original, helps being alive millions of people around the world. Even the films made in India ("Gollywood" they call it!) are watched in all Africa and a lot of south America, some textiles from India are demanded by the richest, but when it comes to the reputation of India for manufacturing quality control, compared with Japan that is: it is far, far, far behind!

But I believe in you, guys, all those to who I "talk" on this forum, and know that one day...

All in good faith and respect to you all.

Luke

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

I completely agree with you on the quality part. For those who want to know more about Japan and its quality culture I would highly recommend the ground breaking documentary by NBC 'If Japan can... Why Can't We?'

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

plz give us the link to that documentry you are taling about...

Re: japanese vs indian companies quality control?

^^^ http://www.1channel.ch/watch-2033195...an-Why-Cant-We