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A very technical question � Throttle & Engine

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  • A very technical question � Throttle & Engine

    Hi Friends,
    I have got a very technical question and would like to have some knowledge on this. As we all know opening the throttle from idle to max increases fuel input to the engine. Throttle = Accelerator in Indian terms.
    Now the company (tvs for my new Jupiter in my example) specifies that new bikes until 1000 km have to be ridden in the speed of 40-50 kmph but I have a question that if I drive on a road which is slightly sloped downward or straight and its empty , then over a period of time be it a geared bike or automatic scooter, the vehicle picks up speed even in less throttle and I observe that even with 20 degrees of throttle, the basic one, my vehicle reaches speeds upto 60 kmph. Though the vehicle speed is reaching 60kmph but the fuel mixture being sent to engine is less and also the revving is not harsh. Now I know you all have got confused on what I mean when I tell 20 degrees of throttle. I will explain, keep the throttle at idle position and mark an imaginary point on it, then move the throttle upto fully open position, and calculate the degrees which the point moves. Internet tells that the degrees which a throttle moves is approx 80 degrees.
    Refer this pic:



    At idle speed the throttle is at 0, if you revv the throttle it goes to 10,20 degrees so on. Rarely in my 13-14 years of driving have I driven at throttle more than 50 degrees. Mostly I drive solo and drive very defensively, so don’t go harsh on the bike.
    There is a relation between speed & throttle & road conditions, if the road has a steep gradient then to reach 60 kmph on that road, I may need throttle of 60 degrees also, but I am driving on straight long smooth tarmac roads.

    My first query is if I drive my new TVS Jupiter at 60kmph but the throttle given is only 15-20 degrees considering the straight road and me driving solo, will it affect the engine performance?
    My second query is do bikes really adapt to the driver, driving the bike. I have a hero Honda super splendor a 125 cc bike and when I drove my friends 100 cc spelendor bike I found his engine more refined and having a very good pickup. Might be I have driven my bike for 10 years at speeds not exceeding 60 kmph and also solo, and he has driven his bike on good speeds / with pillion. How to identify that which method will make a bike more refined and responsive to the throttle. I wish to get more pickup from my bike.
    Last edited by Divya Sharan; 06-10-2016, 05:42 PM.
    K.Ravi

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  • #2
    Thread Approved

    That is the reason why one should watch the tacho and not the speedo. Of course on scoots and commuters, tachos don't exist.
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    • #3
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      • #4
        Originally posted by rsk11584 View Post
        My first query is if I drive my new TVS Jupiter at 60kmph but the throttle given is only 15-20 degrees considering the straight road and me driving solo, will it affect the engine performance?
        My second query is do bikes really adapt to the driver, driving the bike. bike more refined and responsive to the throttle. I wish to get more pickup from my bike.
        I am unable to understand what you mean to say.

        Scooters unlike motorbikes have CVT gearbox , which means they have infinite gear ratios as opposed to fix ones in motorbike. When we close throttle in motorbike, it still sends fuel to engine , how much ? That is governed by pilot jet.

        Now in an incline slope even though you close the throttle , vehicle will keep increasing its speed due to gravity , and since clutch is permanently engaged in scooter it will keep on increasing speed. In motor bikes you can limit them by selecting a gear which acts as a speed/torque limiter. As i said earlier scooters gave infinite gear ratios hence they cannot be limited. That's why manufacturer says to limit the engine speed not vehicle speed during run in . As you can be driving at 30kmph but engine speed will be 7-8k in gear 1.

        But in your case you cannot say anything about engine speed , hence recommendation would be stay under 60kmph, although keep warying speeds.

        Query 2 : Yes they do adapt to drivers habits of driving, but it doesn't matter much. It won't be like my 2 same bikes will give 30-40% performance difference in real world just by driver's caliber. All of it comes down to how you run in the vehicle and keep maintaining it. Person like me , i am very paranoid when it comes to automobiles , I use OE nuts and bolts just to be sure, and results are not surprising. My bike even after 4 yrs runs like new even though i drive it at high revs. @sibun <- This guy is prime example of maintenance , his 100cc bike has done 4L kms, which more than cars out there and rides better than mine .
        Last edited by RohIIT; 06-10-2016, 11:08 AM.
        Carb Tuning made easy (Thanks Sibun !)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rsk11584 View Post
          I wish to get more pickup from my bike.
          Not sure what the hell you were banging on about up there but if this is what you want then put on a bigger sprocket.

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          • #6

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RohIIT View Post
              Scooters unlike motorbikes have CVT gearbox , which means they have infinite gear ratios as opposed to fix ones in motorbike.
              A slight adjustment to your statement - infinite speed ratios.

              The term gear ratio is not applicable on a CVT unit - because there are no gears involved.
              We use a similar unit as gear ratio (for geared vehicles) when considering non geared vehicles - speed ratio.

              Speed ratio = N1/N2 = T1/T2,
              where N = gear RPM, T = number of teeth on the gear, 1 = input gear, 2 = output gear.

              We use pulleys and belts in CVT units to achieve infinite speed ratios and we use the pulley diameter instead of gear teeth, by using electro pneumatic/hydraulic systems for valves. Variable pulley diameters for both input and output valves yields infinite speed ratios.

              However, there are 3 broad working conditions for a CVT unit:
              1. Under-drive (speed ratio > 1) - small input pulley, larger output pulley.
              2. Over-drive (speed ratio < 1) - larger input pulley, smaller output pulley.
              3. Direct drive (speed ratio = 1) - achieved at WOT!
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                A slight adjustment to your statement - infinite speed ratios.

                The term gear ratio is not applicable on a CVT unit - because there are no gears involved.
                We use a similar unit as gear ratio (for geared vehicles) when considering non geared vehicles - speed ratio.

                Speed ratio = N1/N2 = T1/T2,
                where N = gear RPM, T = number of teeth on the gear, 1 = input gear, 2 = output gear.

                We use pulleys and belts in CVT units to achieve infinite speed ratios and we use the pulley diameter instead of gear teeth, by using electro pneumatic/hydraulic systems for valves. Variable pulley diameters for both input and output valves yields infinite speed ratios.

                However, there are 3 broad working conditions for a CVT unit:
                1. Under-drive (speed ratio > 1) - small input pulley, larger output pulley.
                2. Over-drive (speed ratio < 1) - larger input pulley, smaller output pulley.
                3. Direct drive (speed ratio = 1) - achieved at WOT!
                Perfect example of learning never stops and is irrespective of what we do for stomach. Thanks , learnt a new thing today!!
                Carb Tuning made easy (Thanks Sibun !)

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