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**Synn** · 04-13-2009, 08:59 PM

I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before, but this whole comparison is as obtuse as they come.

The Tata Nano is supposed to be a volume product with; lets face it; sub-par (I am not talking quality here) components. E.g. a 4 speed in place of the usual 5 speeders, a twin cylinder engine, overall cost cutting etc. It has only one objective in front of it and that is no-frills A-B transportation.

Now who here would like to own a bare basic motorcycle with let's say, a 4 speeder, drum brakes, a tubular chassis, skinny tires etc. Just because it has a cubic capacity and paper-horsepower advantage? Well, it so happens that we already have one of them readily available. It's called the Enfield Bullet.

No offense to Bulleteers, of course.

There's more to an exciting, sprighty motorcycle than sheer cubic capacity. Please try to understand that.

**dcs** · 04-13-2009, 09:09 PM

Dear Synn, the ground reality is....Two wheeler manufacturers are still minting money by giving us the WONDERFUL sports/ Premium sports Bike. Even if we start disintegrating Nano bit by bit, we still will have the components better than a lot of Bikes' Components.
Not that am being paid by Ratan Tata to say all this, am strictly against the 2wheelers who are charging us hell lot. I dont think that Nano would be a Car that would give way once it is made to do a 300kms trip. what do you say?

And yes, I dont want a 1100cc Inline Liquid cooled engine delivering some 29-30bhp. Give me a 200cc air cooled engine that can give me some more bhp than 20.

**abhijeet080808** · 04-13-2009, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Synn View Post

I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before, but this whole comparison is as obtuse as they come.

The Tata Nano is supposed to be a volume product with; lets face it; sub-par (I am not talking quality here) components. E.g. a 4 speed in place of the usual 5 speeders, a twin cylinder engine, overall cost cutting etc. It has only one objective in front of it and that is no-frills A-B transportation.

Now who here would like to own a bare basic motorcycle with let's say, a 4 speeder, drum brakes, a tubular chassis, skinny tires etc. Just because it has a cubic capacity and paper-horsepower advantage? Well, it so happens that we already have one of them readily available. It's called the Enfield Bullet.

No offense to Bulleteers, of course.

There's more to an exciting, sprighty motorcycle than sheer cubic capacity. Please try to understand that.

And what about the fact that the Nano performs at par or better than its nearest competitor, the M800? The resultant car is the sum of all the components taken together and can not be split into individual components and analysed. This is called innovation. And you compare the Nano with the Bullet?

**Synn** · 04-13-2009, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by abhijeet080808 View Post

And what about the fact that the Nano performs at par or better than its nearest competitor, the M800? The resultant car is the sum of all the components taken together and can not be split into individual components and analysed. This is called innovation. And you compare the Nano with the Bullet?

A: I'd like to see some figures that support your claims, please.

B: The M800 again, is another bare basic car. Do you want a bare basic bike just because it's "Bigger"?

C: This is for DCS too. Somebody please find me another motorcycle from ANYWHERE in the world that has markedly superior specs to the Indian motorcycles, yet cost around the same or slightly more?

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Motorcycles like the R15 and the upcoming CBR 150 costs more/CC because they ARE made of superior components. For my money, I'd like an overall superior motorcycle than one that is bare bones in all respects except a big engine.

Of course, that is just my viewpoint. Obviously it's not the only one.

**abhijeet080808** · 04-13-2009, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by Synn View Post

A: I'd like to see some figures that support your claims, please.

B: The M800 again, is another bare basic car. Do you want a bare basic bike just because it's "Bigger"?

C: This is for DCS too. Somebody please find me another motorcycle from ANYWHERE in the world that has markedly superior specs to the Indian motorcycles, yet cost around the same or slightly more?

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Motorcycles like the R15 and the upcoming CBR 150 costs more/CC because they ARE made of superior components. For my money, I'd like an overall superior motorcycle than one that is bare bones in all respects except a big engine.

Of course, that is just my viewpoint. Obviously it's not the only one.

A. This is the review I looked up to - Test-Driven : TATA NANO! - Team-BHP

B. I compared the Nano with the M800 because it costs double the price compared to the Nano for decade old technology - same as our HH Splendour.

C. This statement could have applied to cars too before the Nano was launched - "Somebody please find me another car from ANYWHERE in the world that has same specs as other cars in its class, yet cost around half?"

And for my money, I would like to see some innovation please, not some decade old technology in a new bottle (read new stickers)! And let the innovation start with the engine - this is my personal preference.

**Synn** · 04-13-2009, 10:08 PM

This may be a shocker to you, but apart from the structural engineering to meet modern safety standards and packaging, the rest of the tech in the Nano IS decades old tech. I'm not denying that the Nano is innovative. It sure is. But the innovation lies in repackaging existing technology in a new way. Not in providing cutting edge tech at an unbelievable price.

For my money, I'd like a modern motorcycle too. Hell, who wouldn't? But such a motorcycle will:

- Need high precision parts.
- Be low volume.

And hence, it is quite unrealistic to expect them at throwaway prices. Do you want a modern splendor or do you want a proper sporty motorcycle?

**abhijeet080808** · 04-13-2009, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Synn View Post

I'm not denying that the Nano is innovative. It sure is. But the innovation lies in repackaging existing technology in a new way. Not in providing cutting edge tech at an unbelievable price.

Agreed the technology is not cutting edge. But they did provide it at half the price of the existing competitors. That is my point. I believe the same can be done in case of the 100cc segment.

And even a basic 400cc motor cycle is not as cutting edge as it is made out to be. Heck, they have been around for ages in other countries!

**pulsater** · 04-14-2009, 12:04 AM

I am pretty confused. what we are complaining here for?

Are we wondering why bike manufacturers can't develope

1. A 600cc bike under a lakh?

OR

2. A basic commuter bike which is dirt cheap (even cheaper than a 1xx cc regular bike)?

I'll put my views on 2nd one because even if I close my eyes to nervously imagine an impossible 600cc bike built on a diamond chassis which cost under a lakh, I will only find one problem with it... it's sales, because that bike wouldn't sell anywhere in the world no matter who makes it and I don't need to bet my property on that one.

2. The answer is TVS champ/luna (go buy it, its just under 20,000 ex showroom price) happy all?

**spiderweb** · 04-14-2009, 12:51 AM

Pulsater got a perfect point,

& I totally agree with Synn too...

the answer to all the questions raised here is RE Bullet & TVS luna/champ.

Nano as these guys mentioned, is an age old technology, repacked with some very cheap components to make it a Rs. 1 lac car. look at the tyres, the speedo console, the bootspace, the seats... nothing is up-to-date n comfertable, still a common man who rides a splendor or chetak would find it the worlds most brilliant car, just coz he can afford it.

Bikes on the other hand are available for every price tag from 20k-1.5k or so.
A variety of bikes with an average of 25 kmpl-125kmpl...
from skinny 60 tyres -broad 140 tyres...
we got a few bikes with higher torque-end & a few for higher Top-end...
A 350CC cruiser bike for mere 1 lac or so...
No other country got so much variety I guess!!!

JUST LOOK AROUND, WHAT you guys want is available in INDIA, a country blessed with an Uber cool Economy...

**swingarm** · 04-14-2009, 01:10 AM

Just for the information we have 100cc bikes starting at 19990. Unfortuantely very few buy it. It is almost like a parallel product to Tata Nano. A-B no frill transportation. Read Here about the bike.

**Aryan** · 04-14-2009, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by dcs View Post

And yes, I dont want a 1100cc Inline Liquid cooled engine delivering some 29-30bhp. Give me a 200cc air cooled engine that can give me some more bhp than 20.

Wait for the upgrade of the P-220, you bugger!

You just might get more than you wished for!

**satyenpoojary** · 04-14-2009, 02:39 AM

By the way... Why wasnt the Bajaj BYK successful...?

I am just wondering

PS: If my sources are correct (which I kinda know they are) Bajaj is working on another low cost bike platform... Code named... Steel (Of all the cheap things in life

)

Why dont we all buy BYKs cos they seem to be more VFM...

**Thunder** · 04-14-2009, 09:41 AM

Can any Tech Gurus put some light on the Query of the Thread Opener

I belive i do opened a Thread long Way back - reg the same - but that was not approved by the Mods.....

R-1-5 ---- 150cc Liquid Cooled 17...bhp
Nano ----- 624cc 35 PS @ 5250 rpm

Both the above Two vehicles are made for India ---- and both lies almost in the same price category......

The only difference is the first is a Bike and the second is a car
Is there any special things we are spending for these bikes rather than cars.....
Is there we pay anything special tax includes in the Bikes Price....
I belive both cars and bikes use the same raw materials....
Why is the difference....can Tech gurus put some light on it......

**Synn** · 04-14-2009, 09:58 AM

The R15 has precision engineered components that helps it to maintain maximum velocity for extended periods of time and also handle extremely well. The sole purpose of the nano is to put a roof over the heads of commuting families. Comparing them on a CC/BHp basis is just plain absurd.

The only difference is the first is a Bike and the second is a car

And this is plain ignorance. A transistor radio would let you listen to FM. So would a cellphone, which while being much smaller, is also several times more expensive. Unfair pricing? You tell me.

**Samarth 619** · 04-14-2009, 10:53 AM

^ Still, The Nano has some good level of Technology say, twin cylinder, MPFi, Liquid Cooling, etc. After all, it's the engine that costs a lot.

I still stress that engine matters a lot, for a great experience. Precisely, that's the biggest difference between a R1 & your R15... isn't it?

BTW Guys, I think we should be discussing Performance, and overALL performance, not pricing.

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If Tata can do it, why not the two wheeler manufacturers?

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